Author Topic: Folk Liturgy  (Read 1106 times)

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Offline Robb

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Folk Liturgy
« on: June 22, 2011, 03:04:26 AM »
Has there ever been a known instance of DL which used guitars or folk instruments?  I know that we have this from time to time in the RCC, especially in the late 60's or 70's.  I'm sure that many purist Orthodox would object to even the use of an organ in Church, but the fact remains that organs are used by many mainstream EO parishes in America. I suspect that there may also have been a folk liturgy celebrated somewhere from time to time?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 03:05:10 AM by Robb »
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Offline mike

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Re: Folk Liturgy
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2011, 04:32:22 AM »
I can't imagine such a thing and I really doubt it.

Offline LBK

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Re: Folk Liturgy
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2011, 05:20:47 AM »
Impossible. Heck, even the occasional use of modern Russian or modern Greek as a liturgical language has been swiftly dealt with by the hierarchy of the respective local churches. (though, OTOH, modern Serbian can now be used as an alternative to Church Slavonic in Serbian jurisdictions).

Not only canonically impossible, but it simply wouldn't work. The music, be it Byzantine monody or Slavic polyphony, is composed with only the voice in mind. Adding musical instruments would be unnecessary, and it just wouldn't sound right. As for a "folk" liturgy, where the gravitas and majesty is replaced with a feel-good approach .... ewwwwww.  :P :P :P
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 05:21:31 AM by LBK »
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Offline akimori makoto

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Re: Folk Liturgy
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2011, 05:48:42 AM »
God forbid.
The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.

Offline synLeszka

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Re: Folk Liturgy
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2011, 08:35:33 AM »
Hmm, I remember watching a video of Bosnian Muslims desecrating a Serbian crkva, and somehow out of behind the iconastas they pulled out a folk guitar.
I thought that the use of the guitar is common in the Orthodox liturgy of the Balkans.

Offline LBK

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Re: Folk Liturgy
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2011, 08:47:01 AM »
Quote
I thought that the use of the guitar is common in the Orthodox liturgy of the Balkans.

Stashko! Stashko, where are you?  :laugh: :laugh:
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Offline trifon

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Re: Folk Liturgy
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2011, 08:52:37 AM »
Hmm, I remember watching a video of Bosnian Muslims desecrating a Serbian crkva, and somehow out of behind the iconastas they pulled out a folk guitar.
I thought that the use of the guitar is common in the Orthodox liturgy of the Balkans.

I am assuming that this is the video in question: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ktx3TNZk5g

I've attended quite a few Liturgies in Bulgaria and Serbia over the past few years, and have yet to see a guitar being used..

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Folk Liturgy
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2011, 09:09:44 AM »
Hmm, I remember watching a video of Bosnian Muslims desecrating a Serbian crkva, and somehow out of behind the iconastas they pulled out a folk guitar.
I thought that the use of the guitar is common in the Orthodox liturgy of the Balkans.
You thought wrong. What a surpires. ::)
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Offline synLeszka

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Re: Folk Liturgy
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2011, 03:11:55 PM »
If you think you are so smart Isa, 
is the Hagia Sophia, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, the Mother of God or some other energy?

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Folk Liturgy
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2011, 03:17:47 PM »
If you think you are so smart Isa, 
is the Hagia Sophia, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, the Mother of God or some other energy?
Not part of folk religion, so not apropos to the thread. But for starters, neither Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit nor the Mother of God are an "energy."  You leaning New Age, SL?

Btw, it's not a "a Serbian crkva," it's a Serbian Church.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
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Offline synLeszka

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Re: Folk Liturgy
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2011, 04:08:45 PM »
If you think you are so smart Isa, 
is the Hagia Sophia, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, the Mother of God or some other energy?
Not part of folk religion, so not apropos to the thread. But for starters, neither Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit nor the Mother of God are an "energy."  You leaning New Age, SL?

Btw, it's not a "a Serbian crkva," it's a Serbian Church.
The Holy Wisdom is part of Russian folk religion. So within the boundaries.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Folk Liturgy
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2011, 04:58:58 PM »
If you think you are so smart Isa, 
is the Hagia Sophia, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, the Mother of God or some other energy?
Not part of folk religion, so not apropos to the thread. But for starters, neither Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit nor the Mother of God are an "energy."  You leaning New Age, SL?

Btw, it's not a "a Serbian crkva," it's a Serbian Church.
The Holy Wisdom is part of Russian folk religion. So within the boundaries.
and I should take the word of an Ultramontanist Pole about Russian folk religion why?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Dart

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Re: Folk Liturgy
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2011, 05:05:25 PM »
If you think you are so smart Isa, 
is the Hagia Sophia, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, the Mother of God or some other energy?
Hagia Sophia = Holy Wisdom
Perfect wisdom is found in God alone. So the Hagia Sophia would be a characteristic of the Holy Trinity and is given to the Church by the grace of God through the Holy Spirit. This Orthodox view is different from the Roman Catholic idea of the Magisterium in which the Pope has infallible and thus perfect wisdom in interpreting the faith.

At least this is my understanding. How do you see it?

Offline synLeszka

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Re: Folk Liturgy
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2011, 11:02:07 AM »
If you think you are so smart Isa, 
is the Hagia Sophia, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, the Mother of God or some other energy?
Hagia Sophia = Holy Wisdom
Perfect wisdom is found in God alone. So the Hagia Sophia would be a characteristic of the Holy Trinity and is given to the Church by the grace of God through the Holy Spirit. This Orthodox view is different from the Roman Catholic idea of the Magisterium in which the Pope has infallible and thus perfect wisdom in interpreting the faith.

At least this is my understanding. How do you see it?
I asked because Fr.Florenski seems to not know what the Holy Wisdom is in Orthodoxy. I remember him saying that the Holy Wisdom was by some even considered St.Nicholas.

Offline HandmaidenofGod

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Re: Folk Liturgy
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2011, 11:45:43 AM »
If you think you are so smart Isa, 
is the Hagia Sophia, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, the Mother of God or some other energy?
Hagia Sophia = Holy Wisdom
Perfect wisdom is found in God alone. So the Hagia Sophia would be a characteristic of the Holy Trinity and is given to the Church by the grace of God through the Holy Spirit. This Orthodox view is different from the Roman Catholic idea of the Magisterium in which the Pope has infallible and thus perfect wisdom in interpreting the faith.

At least this is my understanding. How do you see it?
I asked because Fr.Florenski seems to not know what the Holy Wisdom is in Orthodoxy. I remember him saying that the Holy Wisdom was by some even considered St.Nicholas.

What does any of this have to do with the OP?
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Offline Dart

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Re: Folk Liturgy
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2011, 06:15:21 PM »
If you think you are so smart Isa, 
is the Hagia Sophia, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, the Mother of God or some other energy?
Hagia Sophia = Holy Wisdom
Perfect wisdom is found in God alone. So the Hagia Sophia would be a characteristic of the Holy Trinity and is given to the Church by the grace of God through the Holy Spirit. This Orthodox view is different from the Roman Catholic idea of the Magisterium in which the Pope has infallible and thus perfect wisdom in interpreting the faith.

At least this is my understanding. How do you see it?
I asked because Fr.Florenski seems to not know what the Holy Wisdom is in Orthodoxy. I remember him saying that the Holy Wisdom was by some even considered St.Nicholas.
There were some novel ideas in early 20th century Russia which the Moscow Patriarch deemed heresy but I am not exactly sure what you are referring to. Do you mean Father Pavel Florensky or Father Georges Florensky?

Offline Orual

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Re: Folk Liturgy
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2011, 01:26:12 AM »
If you think you are so smart Isa, 
is the Hagia Sophia, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, the Mother of God or some other energy?
Hagia Sophia = Holy Wisdom
Perfect wisdom is found in God alone. So the Hagia Sophia would be a characteristic of the Holy Trinity and is given to the Church by the grace of God through the Holy Spirit. This Orthodox view is different from the Roman Catholic idea of the Magisterium in which the Pope has infallible and thus perfect wisdom in interpreting the faith.

At least this is my understanding. How do you see it?
I asked because Fr.Florenski seems to not know what the Holy Wisdom is in Orthodoxy. I remember him saying that the Holy Wisdom was by some even considered St.Nicholas.
There were some novel ideas in early 20th century Russia which the Moscow Patriarch deemed heresy but I am not exactly sure what you are referring to. Do you mean Father Pavel Florensky or Father Georges Florensky?

That should be Fr. Georges FlorOVsky.
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Re: Folk Liturgy
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2011, 03:06:06 AM »
Impossible. Heck, even the occasional use of modern Russian or modern Greek as a liturgical language has been swiftly dealt with by the hierarchy of the respective local churches. (though, OTOH, modern Serbian can now be used as an alternative to Church Slavonic in Serbian jurisdictions).

Not only canonically impossible, but it simply wouldn't work. The music, be it Byzantine monody or Slavic polyphony, is composed with only the voice in mind. Adding musical instruments would be unnecessary, and it just wouldn't sound right. As for a "folk" liturgy, where the gravitas and majesty is replaced with a feel-good approach .... ewwwwww.  :P :P :P
Well the use of electric organs in Greek churches in the US is about as folksy as you can get.  Can anyone say why such a modernist copying of American Protestantism got episcopal blessing? The faithful corralled into pews so that they cannot venerate an icon, light a candle or make a prostration... still they can enjoy the concert from the organ.
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