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Author Topic: Corapi Quits  (Read 1289 times) Average Rating: 0
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sainthieu
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« on: June 19, 2011, 06:08:03 PM »

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« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2011, 06:32:04 PM »

Very sad.  I always liked to hear Fr. Corapi speak. His resonant baritone voice could captivate any audience.  I don't know what the allegations are against him (I know there is a thread dedicated to that but it was transformed into a series of "at least it didn't involve boys") and it looks like he is a victim.  Whatever the truth may be, this one thing, I think is certain:  The Catholics in America lost a good minister to the flock. 

I especially liked his entry on the two choices he had. I am most pleased that he did not choose the first of simply giving up and feeling sorry for himself.  If that is not a saintly action, I don't know what is.

May he find peace in whatever vocation he embarks upon to the greater glory of God.
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« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2011, 06:49:09 PM »

Yeah, I'm mystified myself; it would be helpful to really know what is going on here.

I hear quite divergent opinions from Roman Catholic people I admire, and it just makes thing worse. My gut impression is that Father Corapi may be the victim of injustice, but I can't really prove that. OTOH, he may deserve opprobrium, but not in the degree I see displayed.

One thing that especially distresses me is the tone of vitriol in some of the comments, quite unlike the tone I have found in Orthodox arguments; i.e. "You're going to hell." I don't think an Orthodox Christian would ever be so dogmatic and vicious about something like that, at least, none I've ever encountered. It's enough to put you off Christianity.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2011, 06:50:00 PM by sainthieu » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2011, 09:02:12 PM »

I like Father Corapi, but there are a few things that trouble me about his decision to call it quits.  If he is indeed innocent of wrongdoing and feels that he's being railroaded by the bishops then he should file a complant with the Vatican congregation for the clergy, or the Congregation of the Doctrine and the Faith.  There are surely some in Rome who are sympathetic to him and can bypass the American bishops to assure that he has a fair hearing and be reinstated.  Also, I assume that he could leave the country and try to be incarcerated as a priest somewhere else in the world where the U.S. bishops abuse committee has no jurisdiction. 

It's just strange to me that Fr Corapi is giving up this soon after the allegations and without at least trying to hold on for a year or more until the wheels of RC bureaucracy have been completely existed and all possible higher authorities have been petitioned.  After all Mother Angelica was in a tight spot with some bishops back around the turn of the century, yet she was eventually vindicated by the Vatican for her stance (By then Cardinal Ratzinger no less).  I'm sure now as Pope Benedict, he would be more then willing to help Fr Corapi get a fair trial if he was made aware of the situation.
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« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2011, 10:18:57 PM »

The situation is sad, but I believe that he will receive justice. Maybe he could become Western-rite Orthodox Wink
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« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2011, 10:21:02 PM »

I like Father Corapi, but there are a few things that trouble me about his decision to call it quits.  If he is indeed innocent of wrongdoing and feels that he's being railroaded by the bishops then he should file a complant with the Vatican congregation for the clergy, or the Congregation of the Doctrine and the Faith.  There are surely some in Rome who are sympathetic to him and can bypass the American bishops to assure that he has a fair hearing and be reinstated.  Also, I assume that he could leave the country and try to be incarcerated as a priest somewhere else in the world where the U.S. bishops abuse committee has no jurisdiction. 

It's just strange to me that Fr Corapi is giving up this soon after the allegations and without at least trying to hold on for a year or more until the wheels of RC bureaucracy have been completely existed and all possible higher authorities have been petitioned.  After all Mother Angelica was in a tight spot with some bishops back around the turn of the century, yet she was eventually vindicated by the Vatican for her stance (By then Cardinal Ratzinger no less).  I'm sure now as Pope Benedict, he would be more then willing to help Fr Corapi get a fair trial if he was made aware of the situation.

Quitting stops the investigation...

You fill in the blanks
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« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2011, 10:37:45 PM »

From the sound of it, the Bishop is not in violation of canon law.  This results in Fr. Corapi having no real options (especially since, if it is true what he says, he doesn't know the exact charges against him or who is said to have witnessed such things).  I have a feeling the Vatican doesn't want to interfere with bishops who are following its rules.  It makes it look capricious.
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« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2011, 10:43:20 PM »

The situation is sad, but I believe that he will receive justice. Maybe he could become Western-rite Orthodox Wink
Grant it, O Lord!
« Last Edit: June 19, 2011, 10:43:43 PM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2011, 01:29:42 PM »

The situation is sad, but I believe that he will receive justice. Maybe he could become Western-rite Orthodox Wink
Grant it, O Lord!

You folks could certainly use more priests who are ardent believers in the Immaculate Conception, Original Sin, and Papal Infallibility. Maybe we should give him to you.  Smiley
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« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2011, 01:32:16 PM »

The situation is sad, but I believe that he will receive justice. Maybe he could become Western-rite Orthodox Wink
Grant it, O Lord!

You folks could certainly use more priests who are ardent believers in the Immaculate Conception, Original Sin, and Papal Infallibility. Maybe we should give him to you.  Smiley

ROTFL !!!!!!!!!!!!
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« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2011, 01:34:44 PM »

I personally believe the allegations to be false (though I could be wrong), but I do not like this.



These folks put up with a lot of crap from their superiors for far longer than Fr. Corapi has, and they suffered for it but didn't quit.

I think Fr. Corapi's ego has got him here, and I pray he comes to his senses.
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« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2011, 01:41:53 PM »

The situation is sad, but I believe that he will receive justice. Maybe he could become Western-rite Orthodox Wink
Grant it, O Lord!

You folks could certainly use more priests who are ardent believers in the Immaculate Conception, Original Sin, and Papal Infallibility. Maybe we should give him to you.  Smiley
We'd receive him only with conditions:
Is it necessary upon reception into the Orthodox Church to renounce the errors of Romethe Vatican?
Yes.
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« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2011, 01:42:51 PM »

I personally believe the allegations to be false (though I could be wrong), but I do not like this.



These folks put up with a lot of crap from their superiors for far longer than Fr. Corapi has, and they suffered for it but didn't quit.

I think Fr. Corapi's ego has got him here, and I pray he comes to his senses.
Grant it, O Lord!
The situation is sad, but I believe that he will receive justice. Maybe he could become Western-rite Orthodox Wink
Grant it, O Lord!
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« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2011, 01:57:12 PM »

I personally believe the allegations to be false (though I could be wrong), but I do not like this.



These folks put up with a lot of crap from their superiors for far longer than Fr. Corapi has, and they suffered for it but didn't quit.

I think Fr. Corapi's ego has got him here, and I pray he comes to his senses.

Or...He wants a girlfriend or two. Celibacy is a tough row to hoe... as they say  Wink

Good preacher.. I learned lots from him. Very grateful... he seems like a high Testosterone sort of guy
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« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2011, 01:59:27 PM »

Prayers for John Corapi.
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« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2011, 02:01:44 PM »

The situation is sad, but I believe that he will receive justice. Maybe he could become Western-rite Orthodox Wink
Grant it, O Lord!

You folks could certainly use more priests who are ardent believers in the Immaculate Conception, Original Sin, and Papal Infallibility. Maybe we should give him to you.  Smiley
We'd receive him only with conditions:
Is it necessary upon reception into the Orthodox Church to renounce the errors of Romethe Vatican?
Yes.

Well now..I've heard him preach about the Pope... Not gonna happen. he is waaaay under the ether.
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« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2011, 04:51:35 PM »

Is it necessary upon reception into the Orthodox Church to renounce the errors of Romethe Vatican?
Yes.
It looks to me like it is necessary in some cases, but not in all.
For example, if I am not mistaken, there was a situation in the Ukraine  after WWII, when the Eastern Catholics were received into the Orthodox Church, simply by going to the same Church they had been attending, but now it was an Orthodox Church.
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« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2011, 05:12:12 PM »

Is it necessary upon reception into the Orthodox Church to renounce the errors of Romethe Vatican?
Yes.
It looks to me like it is necessary in some cases, but not in all.
For example, if I am not mistaken, there was a situation in the Ukraine  after WWII, when the Eastern Catholics were received into the Orthodox Church, simply by going to the same Church they had been attending, but now it was an Orthodox Church.
Pretty much the same way their ancestors first submitted to the Vatican: it seized their Orthodox Churches.
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« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2011, 05:49:03 PM »

Is it necessary upon reception into the Orthodox Church to renounce the errors of Romethe Vatican?
Yes.
It looks to me like it is necessary in some cases, but not in all.
For example, if I am not mistaken, there was a situation in the Ukraine  after WWII, when the Eastern Catholics were received into the Orthodox Church, simply by going to the same Church they had been attending, but now it was an Orthodox Church.
Pretty much the same way their ancestors first submitted to the Vatican: it seized their Orthodox Churches.

The bishops of Rus' agreed to Unia in 1596, but there was room for dissent. The dyzunici existed, no one persecuted the small minority which maintained the schism. The Polish-Lithuanian-Rusin nobility allowed Orthodoxy and Greek Catholicism to exist side by side. There were two metropolitanates Orthodox and Greek Catholic.
In 1839 and 1946, political commissars liquidated the Greek Slavonic Catholic Church. There was no room for dissent from the policy of the Russian and Soviet states. Officially, the Russians and Soviets delegalised the Greek Catholic Church. The Greek Catholic metropolitanate of Kiev ceased to exist. No room for pluralism in the Russian/Soviet state.
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« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2011, 05:52:03 PM »

Is it necessary upon reception into the Orthodox Church to renounce the errors of Romethe Vatican?
Yes.
It looks to me like it is necessary in some cases, but not in all.
For example, if I am not mistaken, there was a situation in the Ukraine  after WWII, when the Eastern Catholics were received into the Orthodox Church, simply by going to the same Church they had been attending, but now it was an Orthodox Church.
Pretty much the same way their ancestors first submitted to the Vatican: it seized their Orthodox Churches.

The bishops of Rus' agreed to Unia in 1596, but there was room for dissent. The dyzunici existed, no one persecuted the small minority which maintained the schism. The Polish-Lithuanian-Rusin nobility allowed Orthodoxy and Greek Catholicism to exist side by side. There were two metropolitanates Orthodox and Greek Catholic.
In 1839 and 1946, political commissars liquidated the Greek Slavonic Catholic Church. There was no room for dissent from the policy of the Russian and Soviet states. Officially, the Russians and Soviets delegalised the Greek Catholic Church. The Greek Catholic metropolitanate of Kiev ceased to exist. No room for pluralism in the Russian/Soviet state.


ah..I'm just not going to bother to reply.................
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« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2011, 05:53:43 PM »

no one persecuted the small minority which maintained the schism

Except from delegalising the Orthodox Church from 1596 to 1633.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2011, 05:54:15 PM by Michał Kalina » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2011, 07:28:06 PM »

Is it necessary upon reception into the Orthodox Church to renounce the errors of Romethe Vatican?
Yes.
It looks to me like it is necessary in some cases, but not in all.
For example, if I am not mistaken, there was a situation in the Ukraine  after WWII, when the Eastern Catholics were received into the Orthodox Church, simply by going to the same Church they had been attending, but now it was an Orthodox Church.
Pretty much the same way their ancestors first submitted to the Vatican: it seized their Orthodox Churches.

The bishops of Rus' agreed to Unia in 1596, but there was room for dissent.

The lacky of the King of Poland, the apostate Metropolitan of Kiev, closed all the Churches in Brest, so the Faithful Orthodox bishops could not meet when the schismatic bishops met to submit to the Vatican.  As Orthodoc summarized best:
Ref:  The Council met in the city of Brest on October 6, 1596.  In order to prevent a parallel Orthodox council in any of the numerious Orthodox Churches in the city, the now Uniate Metropolitan of Kiev sealed all Orthodox Churches  on the day before the Council was to begin, except for the cathedral where the Council was to take place.  The Orthodox, nevertheless, converged on Brest as well, with prince Ostrozhskii and his private  army at the head.  Failing to find an open church, and after waiting in vain for an invitation from the Uniates, they accepted an offer of a Protestant church school for a separate Orthodox  Council.  The Uniate Council passed a resolution excommunicating all the Orthodox clergy and laity participating in the Orthodox Council.  The Orthodox in turn suspended all the clergy and lay participants in the Uniate Council and addressed a petition to the King, asking him to deprive "the traitors" of their dioceses and parishes.  But the Polish  King decided otherwise:  his edict of October 15, LEGALIZED ONLY THOSE BYZANTINE RITE CHRISTIANS WHO JOINED THE UNIA;  IT DECREED THE ORTHODOX CHURCH NULL AND VOID AND ALL ITS CLERGY EXCOMMUNICATED; WHILE CONTINUING MEMBERSHIP IN THE ORTHODOX CHURCH WAS DECLARED TO BE AN ACT OF TREASON AGAINST THE STATE.

The dyzunici existed, no one persecuted the small minority which maintained the schism.
Why would they persecute them?  The small minority who went into schism by submitting to the Vatican were the only ones the King and the Sejm recognized.  The vast majority who remained faithful to confessing the Orthodox Faith of the Catholic Church were the ones who persecuted, to make them match their official nonexistence.

The Polish-Lithuanian-Rusin nobility allowed Orthodoxy and Greek Catholicism to exist side by side. There were two metropolitanates Orthodox and Greek Catholic.
Only after 1632.  The Patriarch of Jerusalem (the real one, not the Crusader usurper) consecrated new bishops in the PL Commonwealth, which had banned the entry of foreign clergy, and hunted down the consecrated.  The Cossacks, however, made sure the king's warrent was never executed.  When the Sejm and King broke down to the reality of the utter failure of Brest-Lvov, however, they refused to recognize these bishops and they did not get the rights the new, legal, Orthodox bishops had.
A History of Russian Christianity Volume II the Patriarchal Era Through Tsar Peter the Great 1586-1725 By Daniel H. Shubin
http://books.google.com/books?id=5KHmOxc_bswC&pg=PA147&dq=1620+Peter+Mogila&hl=en&ei=88z_Tc-9F8T40gGa_4zZAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=1620%20Peter%20Mogila&f=false
The Russians and their church By Nicolas Zernov
http://books.google.com/books?id=JTqWtaoxAZMC&pg=PA87&dq=1620+Peter+Mogila&hl=en&ei=88z_Tc-9F8T40gGa_4zZAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CEkQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=1620%20Peter%20Mogila&f=false

In 1839 and 1946, political commissars liquidated the Greek Slavonic Catholic Church.
It had already, given that the bribe factor was gone, began to dissolve.  The political commissars came only in the wake of such saints as Alexis Kabaliuk the Confessor St. Maxim Sandovich the Neomartyr
St. Vasily Martysz the  Hieromartyr who continued the work of St. Athanasius of Brest-Litovsk

There was no room for dissent from the policy of the Russian and Soviet states.
Nor in the late Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (which is how it met its demise) nor the Second Polish Republic.

The Lutheran Swedes, Finns, Estonians, Latvians and Baltic Germans, the German Mennonites etc. or even the Ultramontanists Lithuanians and Germans had nowhere near the problems the Ultramontanist Poles made for themselves. Pride comes before a fall, and arrogance prepares destruction.

Officially, the Russians and Soviets delegalised the Greek Catholic Church.
The Vatican and its polish minions showed how to do that.

The Greek Catholic metropolitanate of Kiev ceased to exist.
It existed only on paper.

No room for pluralism in the Russian/Soviet state.
The existence of the Lutherans and other Protestants, the Muslims, and even loyal Ultramontanists belies that.  It is Ultramontanist states that can't take competition.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2011, 07:29:46 PM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2011, 02:48:30 AM »

Is it necessary upon reception into the Orthodox Church to renounce the errors of Romethe Vatican?
Yes.
It looks to me like it is necessary in some cases, but not in all.
For example, if I am not mistaken, there was a situation in the Ukraine  after WWII, when the Eastern Catholics were received into the Orthodox Church, simply by going to the same Church they had been attending, but now it was an Orthodox Church.
Pretty much the same way their ancestors first submitted to the Vatican: it seized their Orthodox Churches.
But there was no renunciation of Roman errors required of Eastern rite Greek Catholics at that time?  Previously, the building was a Greek Catholic Church, in communion with Rome, but then Stalin and others agreed to have the Church building absorbed into the Orthodox Church. Once it was dedicated as an Orthodox Church, the Greek Catholics could still attend the Liturgy there and it was not required for them to make a renunciation against the errors of Rome?
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« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2011, 09:30:08 AM »

Is it necessary upon reception into the Orthodox Church to renounce the errors of Romethe Vatican?
Yes.
It looks to me like it is necessary in some cases, but not in all.
For example, if I am not mistaken, there was a situation in the Ukraine  after WWII, when the Eastern Catholics were received into the Orthodox Church, simply by going to the same Church they had been attending, but now it was an Orthodox Church.
Pretty much the same way their ancestors first submitted to the Vatican: it seized their Orthodox Churches.
But there was no renunciation of Roman errors required of Eastern rite Greek Catholics at that time?  Previously, the building was a Greek Catholic Church, in communion with Rome,
and previously, it was an Orthodox Church seized by the Vatican
but then Stalin and others agreed to have the Church building absorbed into the Orthodox Church. Once it was dedicated as an Orthodox Church, the Greek Catholics could still attend the Liturgy there and it was not required for them to make a renunciation against the errors of Rome?
Given that the Vatican didn't, at first at least, enforce its errors except for seizing the sees and putting its bishops, many cases the simple folk had nothing to renounce,i.e. it didn't insistence on filioque being recited in the Creed.  Between the Westernization of the Orthodox Church by the Kiev Academy and Czar Peter's "reforms," and the duplicity of the "union," there wasn't much for them to renounce, e.g. their priest, like the Orthodox and unlike the Vatican's heretical mandated celibacy, were already married.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 09:32:32 AM by ialmisry » Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2011, 03:27:32 PM »

... there wasn't much for them to renounce,....
I suppose that this is a fairly widespread opinion among those in Communion with the Roman Pope.
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