Author Topic: Avoid these Blokes??  (Read 4252 times)

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Offline Pravoslavbob

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Re: Avoid these Blokes??
« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2011, 10:23:13 AM »
Is it just preference that some people on the forums say that some of the writings of certain people are a bit iffy or is it that they are badly iffy??

Examples:
Metropolitan Anthony
Father Seraphim Rose

Two that i've noticed so far that people keep saying things about......because if there is people to avoid reading, i can do with the heads up right now so i don't waste time reading wrong stuff. Especially if the crux of the Orthodox faith is partly about right belief.

Cheers Poppy


If you are looking for introductory material (and you don`t yet have a spiritual Father who may or may not recommend otherwise) I would recommend The Orthodox Church and The Orthodox Way by Metropolitan Kallistos (aka Bishop Kallistos or Timothy) Ware.  I`m not sure that it would be a good idea to delve into the Fathers right away. 
Atheists have noetic deficiencies.

Offline Michael L

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Re: Avoid these Blokes??
« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2011, 10:38:22 AM »

Andrew, you all are free to do that. Not being inside of any religion, i don't respect the office. My respect of people isn't about semantics, it's about stopping myself from answering you how i rli want to. I try and treat everyone with respect, (however i refer to them as) unless they give me a reason not to.


If I might inquire, wouldn't you want someone to respect you, even if they didn't know you? Instead of calling you by your name, you'd be alright if, say someone wanted to call you by a clever 4 or 5 letter word? I don't think that would be respectful at all. I wouldn't feel comfortable calling Her Royal Majesty "that Liz Chick." Not being English, I don't have any real reason to respect the crown other than decency and respect for her and those that do.

It's a simple gesture of respect that goes a long way. I'm sure you are familiar with the Golden Rule. :)

In Christ,
Andrew
There's a preliminary respect if you don't know someone yeah, but true respect is earned. Priest or Saint is a title, not their name so no, i wouldn't expect someone to call me Lady Poppy, and respect my title if they wern't from my country. I don't think y'all have Lords and Ladies in Virginia huh?? But i might have to put up with being called "honey" and "sweetie" as a friend of mine was called recently when she went on holiday (vacation) there.

You can call our queenie "that liz chick" if you like... haha!

As i said before, gestures of respect are more about treatment to me, than about word gymnastics.

The local priest at St Elias wasn't put off one bit that i didn't call him "Father" I just called him by his first name and he never had a problem with that. He was more glad that i was in church and asking questions. I respected him, he knew that; it was all good. I even slipped and said the F word twice!!!!  :o when you  have been speaking a certain way all your life its hard to change how you speak in a minute. The lady was fine though, she could see i felt awkward and immediately told me a funny story of something she did in church once that put her in a awkward spot.

So chill Andrew, it's all good. Us Brits and you Americans have got a "special" relationship according to Obama, let's not ruin it huh??  ;)



Andrew,

I would recommend the Sayings of the Desert Fathers in this book you will find authentic Orthodox spirituality. You see a great witness to Christian humility, respect,  and meekness.

Hieromonk Seraphim of Platina theological works might be a bit much to understand without a foundation in the faith, however, his I recommend Letters from Father Seraphim: From the 12-year correspondence of Hieromonk Seraphim (Rose) with Father Alexey Young in this book you see the pastoral side of this wonderful man and how he stressed the Royal Path which is a moderate middle of the road mentality.

Metropolitan Anthony Bloom is a great resource for inquirers. I have not read a lot of his works but he was a witness to many of your fellow countrymen so I would recommend his writings to you. Metropolitan Anthony Khrapovitsky does not have a lot of published works but you can find a great resource in an essay on confession that was published.

Michael

Offline joasia

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Re: Avoid these Blokes??
« Reply #47 on: June 23, 2011, 10:48:49 AM »
Yes, I should probably continue to read about it. Sorry if I offended.

There's no offense.  I just figured that you might have read a bit and then stopped because of your issue with mystism.  But, if you read the saints' writings, they always talk about guarding the heart and the virtues of stillness and prayer.  But, of course, this strict form of prayer is only for some who can take it, in the monastery.  Personally, I say the Jesus Prayer when I'm going to work or other places (by bus).  It keeps my mind focused on Christ and I say it with my heart and think about my sins (sometimes I'll remember a sin I need to confess and write it down for when I see my priest).    This keeps me from thinking about useless things.  Or I'll say the shorter version in Greek, Kyrio Eleison.  

And although it is a simple sentence and we repeat it, it's repeated in order to focus our minds with our hearts, but still be conscious of where we are.  If it were a trance, I  would have been hit by a bus or car a long time ago.

People would ask: where is Joasia?  Oh, I heard she fell into a trance while saying the Jesus Prayer and got hit by a bus.  Splat!!
« Last Edit: June 23, 2011, 10:53:12 AM by joasia »
Stillness,  prayer, love and self-control are a four-horsed chariot bearing the intellect to Heaven. (Philokalia 2: p.308 - #24) - St. Thalassios

The proper activity of the intellect is to be attentive at every moment to the words of God.   (Philokalia 2: p. 308 - # 30) - St. Thalassios

Offline Shlomlokh

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Re: Avoid these Blokes??
« Reply #48 on: June 23, 2011, 11:59:07 AM »

Andrew, you all are free to do that. Not being inside of any religion, i don't respect the office. My respect of people isn't about semantics, it's about stopping myself from answering you how i rli want to. I try and treat everyone with respect, (however i refer to them as) unless they give me a reason not to.


If I might inquire, wouldn't you want someone to respect you, even if they didn't know you? Instead of calling you by your name, you'd be alright if, say someone wanted to call you by a clever 4 or 5 letter word? I don't think that would be respectful at all. I wouldn't feel comfortable calling Her Royal Majesty "that Liz Chick." Not being English, I don't have any real reason to respect the crown other than decency and respect for her and those that do.

It's a simple gesture of respect that goes a long way. I'm sure you are familiar with the Golden Rule. :)

In Christ,
Andrew
There's a preliminary respect if you don't know someone yeah, but true respect is earned. Priest or Saint is a title, not their name so no, i wouldn't expect someone to call me Lady Poppy, and respect my title if they wern't from my country. I don't think y'all have Lords and Ladies in Virginia huh?? But i might have to put up with being called "honey" and "sweetie" as a friend of mine was called recently when she went on holiday (vacation) there.

You can call our queenie "that liz chick" if you like... haha!

As i said before, gestures of respect are more about treatment to me, than about word gymnastics.

The local priest at St Elias wasn't put off one bit that i didn't call him "Father" I just called him by his first name and he never had a problem with that. He was more glad that i was in church and asking questions. I respected him, he knew that; it was all good. I even slipped and said the F word twice!!!!  :o when you  have been speaking a certain way all your life its hard to change how you speak in a minute. The lady was fine though, she could see i felt awkward and immediately told me a funny story of something she did in church once that put her in a awkward spot.

So chill Andrew, it's all good. Us Brits and you Americans have got a "special" relationship according to Obama, let's not ruin it huh??  ;)



Andrew,

I would recommend the Sayings of the Desert Fathers in this book you will find authentic Orthodox spirituality. You see a great witness to Christian humility, respect,  and meekness.

Hieromonk Seraphim of Platina theological works might be a bit much to understand without a foundation in the faith, however, his I recommend Letters from Father Seraphim: From the 12-year correspondence of Hieromonk Seraphim (Rose) with Father Alexey Young in this book you see the pastoral side of this wonderful man and how he stressed the Royal Path which is a moderate middle of the road mentality.

Metropolitan Anthony Bloom is a great resource for inquirers. I have not read a lot of his works but he was a witness to many of your fellow countrymen so I would recommend his writings to you. Metropolitan Anthony Khrapovitsky does not have a lot of published works but you can find a great resource in an essay on confession that was published.

Michael
Oh, I couldn't agree more. I was just trying to point out that we should treat our reposed holy men with a little more honor and respect, especially in an increasingly godless culture. I'm not asking anyone to refer to them as Saints, but I wouldn't refer to them as "dudes" in American parlance either.

In Christ,
Andrew
"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos

Offline Thomas

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Re: Avoid these Blokes??
« Reply #49 on: June 23, 2011, 02:00:21 PM »
It is always best to ask your Pastor and Spiritual father for guidance when you are doing a guided study of the Orthodox Church as an Inquiror. In my parish, I serve that basis as a catechumen director and have a listing of basic books with some special ones that cover specific subject areas that my pastor has approved to be used. In many parishes, the pastor  may be the only point of contact---speak to him for direction in your reading program---remember milk before meat according to the Apostle St Paul.

Thomas
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Offline Poppy

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Re: Avoid these Blokes??
« Reply #50 on: June 23, 2011, 03:29:27 PM »
Quote
Oh, I couldn't agree more. I was just trying to point out that we should treat our reposed holy men with a little more honor and respect, especially in an increasingly godless culture. I'm not asking anyone to refer to them as Saints, but I wouldn't refer to them as "dudes" in American parlance either.

In Christ,
Andrew

Andrew, i'm not treating them disrespectfully by calling them blokes (= men). The word "dudes" is really allot different.
And i wish you would be more honest and stop using the word "we" when really you mean ME. Now shut up about it.




Offline Poppy

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Re: Avoid these Blokes??
« Reply #51 on: June 23, 2011, 03:34:28 PM »
Is it just preference that some people on the forums say that some of the writings of certain people are a bit iffy or is it that they are badly iffy??

Examples:
Metropolitan Anthony
Father Seraphim Rose

Two that i've noticed so far that people keep saying things about......because if there is people to avoid reading, i can do with the heads up right now so i don't waste time reading wrong stuff. Especially if the crux of the Orthodox faith is partly about right belief.

Cheers Poppy


If you are looking for introductory material (and you don`t yet have a spiritual Father who may or may not recommend otherwise) I would recommend The Orthodox Church and The Orthodox Way by Metropolitan Kallistos (aka Bishop Kallistos or Timothy) Ware.  I`m not sure that it would be a good idea to delve into the Fathers right away. 

Thanks pravoslavbob, i have got them two and also i have got On The Incarnation of the Word by St. Athanasius.... it's only one quid fourty on kindle right now!!! I know, amazing huh??? How cheap was that!!

Offline jckstraw72

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Re: Avoid these Blokes??
« Reply #52 on: June 23, 2011, 04:20:58 PM »
i just got back from Serbia, and everywhere we went, after learning that we were Americans they wanted to talk about Fr. Seraphim Rose. In Orthodox countries he seems to be widely accepted, and its basically only in America that he is controversial. However, it is best to follow the advice of your spiritual father.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Avoid these Blokes??
« Reply #53 on: June 23, 2011, 04:43:03 PM »
Quote
Oh, I couldn't agree more. I was just trying to point out that we should treat our reposed holy men with a little more honor and respect, especially in an increasingly godless culture. I'm not asking anyone to refer to them as Saints, but I wouldn't refer to them as "dudes" in American parlance either.

In Christ,
Andrew

Andrew, i'm not treating them disrespectfully by calling them blokes (= men). The word "dudes" is really allot different.
And i wish you would be more honest and stop using the word "we" when really you mean ME. Now shut up about it.

Poppy,

You do realize you are painting yourself into a corner here?

If you have PMed me, the mods have taken my ability to PM away. Please see my email if you wish to contact me during my time of trial.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Avoid these Blokes??
« Reply #54 on: June 23, 2011, 04:47:49 PM »
It is always best to ask your Pastor and Spiritual father for guidance when you are doing a guided study of the Orthodox Church as an Inquiror. In my parish, I serve that basis as a catechumen director and have a listing of basic books with some special ones that cover specific subject areas that my pastor has approved to be used. In many parishes, the pastor  may be the only point of contact---speak to him for direction in your reading program---remember milk before meat according to the Apostle St Paul.

Thomas

Well said in theory.

Thomas some folks go to parishes where face time with the Priest is hard to come by, much less for a new person to have a "spiritual father".

Some parishes don't have any formal catechumenate. Heck, just from stories here, I've read of people shopping parishes to get into the Church with the least amount time spent.

I think OC.net can be great especially when there is a consensus among the obviously well respected folks here.

It would be great for folks new here to read the stickies so that the same questions are not asked over and over again. But that ain't likely.

My two cents.
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Offline Poppy

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Re: Avoid these Blokes??
« Reply #55 on: June 23, 2011, 04:55:56 PM »
Quote
Oh, I couldn't agree more. I was just trying to point out that we should treat our reposed holy men with a little more honor and respect, especially in an increasingly godless culture. I'm not asking anyone to refer to them as Saints, but I wouldn't refer to them as "dudes" in American parlance either.

In Christ,
Andrew

Andrew, i'm not treating them disrespectfully by calling them blokes (= men). The word "dudes" is really allot different.
And i wish you would be more honest and stop using the word "we" when really you mean ME. Now shut up about it.

Poppy,

You do realize you are painting yourself into a corner here?


Oh and why do you have to put your stinking oar in??

You already know i don't like you.... because you have no code and don't say sorry when you offend someone.

So you KNOW that if you get involved in something that don't concern you .....it isn't going to be a good thing

SO i can only conclude that you MEAN to wind me up and wind the situation up

Your such a MONG!!!!! So obvious and superior you tosser



cue superior response from the mong who likes to stir up disagreements
« Last Edit: June 23, 2011, 04:57:31 PM by Poppy »

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Avoid these Blokes??
« Reply #56 on: June 23, 2011, 05:06:34 PM »
Quote
Oh, I couldn't agree more. I was just trying to point out that we should treat our reposed holy men with a little more honor and respect, especially in an increasingly godless culture. I'm not asking anyone to refer to them as Saints, but I wouldn't refer to them as "dudes" in American parlance either.

In Christ,
Andrew

Andrew, i'm not treating them disrespectfully by calling them blokes (= men). The word "dudes" is really allot different.
And i wish you would be more honest and stop using the word "we" when really you mean ME. Now shut up about it.

Poppy,

You do realize you are painting yourself into a corner here?


Oh and why do you have to put your stinking oar in??

Thought you might want to modify the post while you still could.
If you have PMed me, the mods have taken my ability to PM away. Please see my email if you wish to contact me during my time of trial.

Offline Shlomlokh

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Re: Avoid these Blokes??
« Reply #57 on: June 23, 2011, 05:27:31 PM »
Quote
Oh, I couldn't agree more. I was just trying to point out that we should treat our reposed holy men with a little more honor and respect, especially in an increasingly godless culture. I'm not asking anyone to refer to them as Saints, but I wouldn't refer to them as "dudes" in American parlance either.

In Christ,
Andrew

Andrew, i'm not treating them disrespectfully by calling them blokes (= men). The word "dudes" is really allot different.
And i wish you would be more honest and stop using the word "we" when really you mean ME. Now shut up about it.




Perhaps, one day you will see what I mean. May God bless you. :)

In Christ,
Andrew
"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos

Offline Poppy

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Re: Avoid these Blokes??
« Reply #58 on: June 23, 2011, 05:31:08 PM »
Quote
Oh, I couldn't agree more. I was just trying to point out that we should treat our reposed holy men with a little more honor and respect, especially in an increasingly godless culture. I'm not asking anyone to refer to them as Saints, but I wouldn't refer to them as "dudes" in American parlance either.

In Christ,
Andrew

Andrew, i'm not treating them disrespectfully by calling them blokes (= men). The word "dudes" is really allot different.
And i wish you would be more honest and stop using the word "we" when really you mean ME. Now shut up about it.

Poppy,

You do realize you are painting yourself into a corner here?


Oh and why do you have to put your stinking oar in??

Thought you might want to modify the post while you still could.

Aww and don't try and look the gracious one now......after you stuck your awe in and stirred the pot up???

Why don't you both grow a pair!!!!!!!!!!

You've been warned before to steer clear from such vulgar language and personal attacks as this. To stress how important it is you learn to watch what you type on this forum so you don't flame more of our posters, you are receiving this warning to last for the next two weeks. If you think this warning unfair, please appeal it via private message to Veniamin. Thank you.

- PeterTheAleut
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 12:08:03 AM by PeterTheAleut »

Offline Michael L

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Re: Avoid these Blokes??
« Reply #59 on: June 23, 2011, 07:37:55 PM »

Andrew, you all are free to do that. Not being inside of any religion, i don't respect the office. My respect of people isn't about semantics, it's about stopping myself from answering you how i rli want to. I try and treat everyone with respect, (however i refer to them as) unless they give me a reason not to.


If I might inquire, wouldn't you want someone to respect you, even if they didn't know you? Instead of calling you by your name, you'd be alright if, say someone wanted to call you by a clever 4 or 5 letter word? I don't think that would be respectful at all. I wouldn't feel comfortable calling Her Royal Majesty "that Liz Chick." Not being English, I don't have any real reason to respect the crown other than decency and respect for her and those that do.

It's a simple gesture of respect that goes a long way. I'm sure you are familiar with the Golden Rule. :)

In Christ,
Andrew
There's a preliminary respect if you don't know someone yeah, but true respect is earned. Priest or Saint is a title, not their name so no, i wouldn't expect someone to call me Lady Poppy, and respect my title if they wern't from my country. I don't think y'all have Lords and Ladies in Virginia huh?? But i might have to put up with being called "honey" and "sweetie" as a friend of mine was called recently when she went on holiday (vacation) there.

You can call our queenie "that liz chick" if you like... haha!

As i said before, gestures of respect are more about treatment to me, than about word gymnastics.

The local priest at St Elias wasn't put off one bit that i didn't call him "Father" I just called him by his first name and he never had a problem with that. He was more glad that i was in church and asking questions. I respected him, he knew that; it was all good. I even slipped and said the F word twice!!!!  :o when you  have been speaking a certain way all your life its hard to change how you speak in a minute. The lady was fine though, she could see i felt awkward and immediately told me a funny story of something she did in church once that put her in a awkward spot.

So chill Andrew, it's all good. Us Brits and you Americans have got a "special" relationship according to Obama, let's not ruin it huh??  ;)



Andrew,

I would recommend the Sayings of the Desert Fathers in this book you will find authentic Orthodox spirituality. You see a great witness to Christian humility, respect,  and meekness.

Hieromonk Seraphim of Platina theological works might be a bit much to understand without a foundation in the faith, however, his I recommend Letters from Father Seraphim: From the 12-year correspondence of Hieromonk Seraphim (Rose) with Father Alexey Young in this book you see the pastoral side of this wonderful man and how he stressed the Royal Path which is a moderate middle of the road mentality.

Metropolitan Anthony Bloom is a great resource for inquirers. I have not read a lot of his works but he was a witness to many of your fellow countrymen so I would recommend his writings to you. Metropolitan Anthony Khrapovitsky does not have a lot of published works but you can find a great resource in an essay on confession that was published.

Michael
Oh, I couldn't agree more. I was just trying to point out that we should treat our reposed holy men with a little more honor and respect, especially in an increasingly godless culture. I'm not asking anyone to refer to them as Saints, but I wouldn't refer to them as "dudes" in American parlance either.

In Christ,
Andrew

Sorry I meant this message for poppy.

Offline Poppy

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Re: Avoid these Blokes??
« Reply #60 on: June 25, 2011, 04:50:19 AM »
Thanks Michael L

Now that i'm not distracted i am going over the helpfull posts and copying some of the info so i can look things up or get a hold of books.
Some of them are dirt cheap on kindle!!!
LOVE my kindle love it

Offline joasia

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Re: Avoid these Blokes??
« Reply #61 on: June 25, 2011, 10:01:27 AM »
Thanks Michael L

Now that i'm not distracted i am going over the helpfull posts and copying some of the info so i can look things up or get a hold of books.
Some of them are dirt cheap on kindle!!!
LOVE my kindle love it

May I offer some advice?   Save your info and quotes that you read, from the holy fathers, on your computer.  Because you may be asked to support your comments and flipping through books takes up lots of time.  Instead you can just use the "Find" function and it will bring it up.  I wish I had a computer back when I started reading... ;)

BTW.  Have you listened to some podcasts on ancientfaith.com?  There are many subjects and you can do stuff around your place while listening.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2011, 10:03:15 AM by joasia »
Stillness,  prayer, love and self-control are a four-horsed chariot bearing the intellect to Heaven. (Philokalia 2: p.308 - #24) - St. Thalassios

The proper activity of the intellect is to be attentive at every moment to the words of God.   (Philokalia 2: p. 308 - # 30) - St. Thalassios

Offline Poppy

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Re: Avoid these Blokes??
« Reply #62 on: June 26, 2011, 01:37:47 AM »
Thanks Michael L

Now that i'm not distracted i am going over the helpfull posts and copying some of the info so i can look things up or get a hold of books.
Some of them are dirt cheap on kindle!!!
LOVE my kindle love it

May I offer some advice?   Save your info and quotes that you read, from the holy fathers, on your computer.  Because you may be asked to support your comments and flipping through books takes up lots of time.  Instead you can just use the "Find" function and it will bring it up.  I wish I had a computer back when I started reading... ;)

BTW.  Have you listened to some podcasts on ancientfaith.com?  There are many subjects and you can do stuff around your place while listening.

haha.... i will save them Joasia  ;D
Yeah i have been listening to some podcasts, i even started a thread about it

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Avoid these Blokes??
« Reply #63 on: June 26, 2011, 08:06:48 AM »
Is it just preference that some people on the forums say that some of the writings of certain people are a bit iffy or is it that they are badly iffy??

Examples:
Metropolitan Anthony
Father Seraphim Rose

Two that i've noticed so far that people keep saying things about......because if there is people to avoid reading, i can do with the heads up right now so i don't waste time reading wrong stuff. Especially if the crux of the Orthodox faith is partly about right belief.

Cheers Poppy


If you are looking for introductory material (and you don`t yet have a spiritual Father who may or may not recommend otherwise) I would recommend The Orthodox Church and The Orthodox Way by Metropolitan Kallistos (aka Bishop Kallistos or Timothy) Ware.  I`m not sure that it would be a good idea to delve into the Fathers right away. 

One wonders what the Church ever did with inquirers before Met. Kallistos put pen to paper.

There is no reason why one shouldn't read the Fathers right away, it just depends on what one is reading. I would, for instance, recommend reading the homilies of St. John Chrysostom or St. Gregory Palamas before the Philokalia. These writings were intended for a general Christian audience and the fact that they were written by Fathers doesn't suddenly make them dangerous.

Offline SakranMM

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Re: Avoid these Blokes??
« Reply #64 on: June 27, 2011, 08:38:24 AM »
Start with the Bible.  Especially the New Testament.
"And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us..."