OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 20, 2014, 04:15:59 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Jesus and Christ  (Read 795 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Ansgar
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: More than an inquirer, less than a catechumen
Jurisdiction: Exarchate of orthodox churches of russian tradition in western Europe
Posts: 2,988


Keep your mind in hell and do not despair


« on: June 21, 2011, 06:42:39 AM »

Hello everybody,
I just wanted to ask a question about Jesus and the title Christ. The feast of saint John the baptist is approaching in Denmark and a christian newspaper have posted an article about him. Now one of the commentators wrote something that according to me was a little misleading about the nature of Christ. According to him, Jesus first became Christ when he was ressurected and that he was not christ while he was on Earth. To this I responded with the quote from the gospel of Matthew where Peter proclaim that jesus is Christ(Matthew: 16,16) He is probably going to write back and since I am not so skilled in these things(maybe I should just have kept quiet) I would like to ask if someone could give me an orthodox view on this issue.

Thank you.
Logged

Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite
Theophilos78
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: pro-Israeli Zionist Apostolic Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Adonai Yeshua
Posts: 2,043



« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2011, 08:18:35 AM »

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today and forever. (Hebrews 13:8 )

Jesus is eternally Christ and high priest:

The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind: "You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek." (Psalm 110:4)

Jesus did not become Christ through His resurrection, but He was declared to be so to the whole world. The resurrection was the official sign of and evidence for Jesus' Messianic teachings and claims. He was made the Messiah in the sense that He was announced to be the Messiah through His resurrection.

Logged

Longing for Heavenly Jerusalem
Ansgar
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: More than an inquirer, less than a catechumen
Jurisdiction: Exarchate of orthodox churches of russian tradition in western Europe
Posts: 2,988


Keep your mind in hell and do not despair


« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2011, 08:43:48 AM »

Thank you. I just wanted to be completely sure so I don't end up saying something that is totally wrong.  Smiley
Logged

Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,960



« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2011, 10:05:33 AM »

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today and forever. (Hebrews 13:8 )

Jesus is eternally Christ and high priest:

The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind: "You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek." (Psalm 110:4)

Jesus did not become Christ through His resurrection, but He was declared to be so to the whole world. The resurrection was the official sign of and evidence for Jesus' Messianic teachings and claims. He was made the Messiah in the sense that He was announced to be the Messiah through His resurrection.



I'll just add, the Magi asked "Where is He who has been born King of the Jews?  For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him" and Herod reacted "gather[ing] the chief priests and the scribes of the people together inquir[ing] of them where the Christ was to be born" and the angels announced "For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, Who is [present tense, not future] Christ the Lord."

Hebrews 5:5 "So also Christ did not glorify Himself to become High Priest, but it was He Who said to Him: You are My Son, Today I have begotten You"  quoting Psalm 2 "Why do the nations rage/and the gentiles plot a vain thing?/the kings of the earth set themselves/and the rulers take counsel together/against the Lord and His annointed Christ.....'I will declare teh decree: the Lord had said to Me, You are My Son, Today I have begotten You"
and the verse of Psalm 109(110) before that quoted by Theophilos "With You is the beginning in the day of Your Power/In the brightness of Your saints: 'I have begotten You from the womb before the morning star." The Lord has sworn..."
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
HabteSelassie
Ises and I-ity
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 3,332



« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2011, 12:23:44 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Hello everybody,
I just wanted to ask a question about Jesus and the title Christ. The feast of saint John the baptist is approaching in Denmark and a christian newspaper have posted an article about him. Now one of the commentators wrote something that according to me was a little misleading about the nature of Christ. According to him, Jesus first became Christ when he was ressurected and that he was not christ while he was on Earth. To this I responded with the quote from the gospel of Matthew where Peter proclaim that jesus is Christ(Matthew: 16,16) He is probably going to write back and since I am not so skilled in these things(maybe I should just have kept quiet) I would like to ask if someone could give me an orthodox view on this issue.

Thank you.
That idea seems based upon the ideas that Jesus Christ was either a Man who became a God, or at the least some kind of misconception of the concept of the Christ.  True, Jesus was not physically glorified until the Resurrection, which He Himself attested to, but as it has been said, He was always the Christ.  If this author does not assert Jesus to have been a man who was made God, at the least, this author then seems to be ascribing to the premise that Jesus wasn't made the Christ (ie, the King) until the Resurrection and Ascension when He took His place at the Right hand of the Father in Heaven.  This is the trouble with getting to conversational about this issue.  Others assert that Jesus is not necessarily the Christ until His Second Coming to reign as a King on the Earth.  All of these fall short of the Orthodox theology of the Christ.

Jesus Christ in Orthodox theology is not merely King of the World, rather He is King of Universe.  Jesus Christ reigns above all principalities, spirits, entities, forces, etc etc.  In this He is the True and Real Christ, not just the earthly king of a small Jewish lineage and family, which the Christos were since the time of King David.  As King over all powers and spirits, Jesus Christ was, is, and will for ever be King in this spiritual capacity and realm, and so He was King before His Incarnation, He was King through out His life, and He was King in His Death, and proved the absolute Divinity of His Kingship through the power of His Resurrection. 

As the Word, the Second Person of the Trinity, Jesus Christ always was and is the Christ (the Messiah, the Christos, the King) and does not need to be crowned or coronated, as His Kingdom is beyond all crowns and coronations. The combining of the Jewish concept of the Moshiach/Christ with Jesus Christ is only meant to emphasize the importance of the Incarnation, of the Flesh and Blood manifestation of the Eternal King Jesus Christ our Lord.  As the Jews predicted that a Divine Christ would come, so then our Eternal Savior the Word assumed flesh and blood like ourselves to be able to be a King in an earthly sense which His spiritual Kingship did not necessarily afford in its immateriality.



stay Blessed,
Habte Selassie
Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
akimori makoto
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Non-heretical Christian
Jurisdiction: Fully-sik-hektic archdiocese of Australia, bro
Posts: 3,126

No-one bound by fleshly pleasures is worthy ...


« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2011, 07:34:23 PM »

Hello everybody,
According to him, Jesus first became Christ when he was ressurected and that he was not christ while he was on Earth.

This is unquestionably heresy and I am quite perturbed that this sort of blatant misinformation is paraded around as though it is fact.
Logged

The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.
Gamliel
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 2,208



« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2011, 10:13:11 PM »

Sounds a little like adoptionism?
Logged
pmpn8rGPT
Grammar Nazi in three languages.
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Eastern Orthodox (old calendarist)
Posts: 1,038


Proof that Russia won the Space Race.


« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2012, 10:42:20 PM »

Hello everybody,
I just wanted to ask a question about Jesus and the title Christ. The feast of saint John the baptist is approaching in Denmark and a christian newspaper have posted an article about him. Now one of the commentators wrote something that according to me was a little misleading about the nature of Christ. According to him, Jesus first became Christ when he was ressurected and that he was not christ while he was on Earth. To this I responded with the quote from the gospel of Matthew where Peter proclaim that jesus is Christ(Matthew: 16,16) He is probably going to write back and since I am not so skilled in these things(maybe I should just have kept quiet) I would like to ask if someone could give me an orthodox view on this issue.

Thank you.
sounds like the guy who wrote that worships ra, since they believe Jesus became "a" Christ. 
Logged

"Tomorrow, I shall no longer be here."
-Nostradamus's last words.
NicholasMyra
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian/Greek
Posts: 5,967


Avowed denominationalist


« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2012, 02:10:55 AM »

In my opinion, I may be wrong:

Jesus was anointed as the Messiah humanly at his baptism, when God declared the words of coronation into Davidic Kingship:

"Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." / "Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."

Of course he was anointed from eternity for this purpose, and was always the Son of the Father. But, as human nature is recapitulated throughout Christ's life, death, and resurrection, and not merely at the moment of his incarnation, so this anointing for "messiah-ship" was re-capitulated humanly at his baptism.

Hello everybody,
According to him, Jesus first became Christ when he was ressurected and that he was not christ while he was on Earth.

This is unquestionably heresy and I am quite perturbed that this sort of blatant misinformation is paraded around as though it is fact.

It's also something which no group has believed in historically, afaik.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 02:12:26 AM by NicholasMyra » Logged

Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

"You are philosophical innovators. As for me, I follow the Fathers." -Every heresiarch ever
LBK
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 11,129


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2012, 02:20:49 AM »

Quote
Jesus was anointed as the Messiah humanly at his baptism, when God declared the words of coronation into Davidic Kingship:

Luke ch 2 shows that His Messiahship was recognized much earlier, both at His Nativity, and at His presentation to the Temple at 40 days:

Quote
8 Now there were in the same country shepherds living out in the fields, keeping watch over their flock by night. 9 And behold, an angel of the Lord stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were greatly afraid. 10 Then the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to all people. 11 For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. 12 And this will be the sign to you: You will find a Babe wrapped in swaddling cloths, lying in a manger.”

13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying:

14 “Glory to God in the highest,
And on earth peace, goodwill toward men!”

15 So it was, when the angels had gone away from them into heaven, that the shepherds said to one another, “Let us now go to Bethlehem and see what has come to pass, which the Lord has made known to us.” 16 And they came with haste and found Mary and Joseph, and the Babe lying in a manger. 17 Now when they had seen Him, they made widely known the saying which was told them concerning this Child. 18 And all those who heard it marveled at those things which were told them by the shepherds. 19 But Mary kept all these things and pondered them in her heart. 20 Then the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told them.

Quote
25 And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon, and this man was just and devout, waiting for the Consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. 26 And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord’s Christ. 27 So he came by the Spirit into the temple. And when the parents brought in the Child Jesus, to do for Him according to the custom of the law, 28 he took Him up in his arms and blessed God and said:

29 “Lord, now let Your servant depart in peace,
According to Your word;
30 For my eyes have seen Your salvation
31 Which You have prepared before the face of all peoples,
32 A light to bring revelation to the Gentiles,
And the glory of Your people Israel.”
« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 02:21:47 AM by LBK » Logged
NicholasMyra
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian/Greek
Posts: 5,967


Avowed denominationalist


« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2012, 02:23:13 AM »

His Messiahship was recognized much earlier
Yeah, I agree. He was born to be King of the Jews. His baptism is the "game on" anointing to actualize that destiny. The start of his Messianic ministry. That's why Mark begins there.

Or, in other words: Christ was known to be the Messiah, the promised king of Israel. He was ordained to kingship humanly at his baptism.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 02:38:28 AM by NicholasMyra » Logged

Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

"You are philosophical innovators. As for me, I follow the Fathers." -Every heresiarch ever
LBK
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 11,129


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2012, 02:37:33 AM »

Also there's the unborn St John the Baptist leaping for joy in Elizabeth's womb when the newly-pregnant Virgin visited her, and Elizabeth's resultant proclamation:

Quote
“Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 But why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For indeed, as soon as the voice of your greeting sounded in my ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. 45 Blessed is she who believed, for there will be a fulfillment of those things which were told her from the Lord.”
« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 02:39:24 AM by LBK » Logged
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.074 seconds with 39 queries.