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Author Topic: Ultramontanists  (Read 3654 times) Average Rating: 0
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synLeszka
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« on: June 20, 2011, 05:58:01 PM »




Stop it, who cares?? Those Poles were for the major part Roman Catholic. It is better that those ultramontanist be destroyed by the armies of Lutheran Germany. After all Roman Catholics are the sons of the antichrist, worse than the Turks, all of them are nazist cooperators, et cetera. After all, the Poles deserved to be annihilated, being Catholics. Grin Grin Grin
Don't cry over ultramontanists.
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« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2011, 06:07:06 PM »

This was split off from here:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,37174.msg587612.html#msg587612
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« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2011, 06:15:27 PM »


Stop it, who cares?? Those Poles were for the major part Roman Catholic. It is better that those ultramontanist be destroyed by the armies of Lutheran Germany. After all Roman Catholics are the sons of the antichrist, worse than the Turks, all of them are nazist cooperators, et cetera. After all, the Poles deserved to be annihilated, being Catholics. Grin Grin Grin
Don't cry over ultramontanists.
Hitler wasn't Lutheran. He was one of your ultramontanists. And his martyr complex resembles yours.
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« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2011, 06:24:17 PM »

"Sun Tzu said: In the practical art of war, the best thing of all is to take the enemy's country whole and intact; to shatter and destroy it is not so good." -Art of War, 3:1

And for those who don't know what ultramontanism is:

"Ultramontanism is a religious philosophy within the Roman Catholic community that places strong emphasis on the prerogatives and powers of the Pope. In particular, ultramontanism may consist in asserting the superiority of Papal authority over the authority of local temporal or spiritual hierarchies (including the local bishop)." -Wikipedia
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« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2011, 06:48:26 PM »

Hitler wasn't Lutheran. He was one of your ultramontanists. And his martyr complex resembles yours.

Hitler was raised Catholic but became an anti-Catholic neo-pagan occultist.  He was hardly an ultramontanist.
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« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2011, 07:35:08 PM »

Hitler wasn't Lutheran. He was one of your ultramontanists. And his martyr complex resembles yours.

Hitler was raised Catholic but became an anti-Catholic neo-pagan occultist.  He was hardly an ultramontanist.
He was more than Mussolini, who signed the Treaty giving the Donation of Mussolini, Vatican City.
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« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2011, 10:59:48 PM »

A few choice quotes from Hitler:

19th October, 1941, night: "The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity."

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941: "National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... "The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is  Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... "Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things." (p 6 & 7)

Source: http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ca_hitler.html

I just find it absurd to claim Hitler was Catholic or even religious at all.
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« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2011, 11:15:54 PM »

Hitler wasn't Lutheran. He was one of your ultramontanists. And his martyr complex resembles yours.

Hitler was raised Catholic but became an anti-Catholic neo-pagan occultist.  He was hardly an ultramontanist.

Consider the source  Smiley
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« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2011, 12:00:03 AM »

Hitler wasn't Lutheran. He was one of your ultramontanists. And his martyr complex resembles yours.

Hitler was raised Catholic but became an anti-Catholic neo-pagan occultist.  He was hardly an ultramontanist.

Consider the source  Smiley

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonding
That's not a Lutheran church.
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« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2011, 12:21:01 AM »

So what?  Should I post a picture of Stalin's boyhood church in Gori?
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« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2011, 12:32:56 AM »

A few choice quotes from Hitler:

19th October, 1941, night: "The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity."


Its called shining a light in the darkness. That's what happens.
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« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2011, 09:40:46 AM »

So what?  Should I post a picture of Stalin's boyhood church in Gori?
Please do.  I like Georgian architecture.

I don't know of many Orthodox who deny the background of Stalin and the communists, but synleszka (who brought this issue up) cant' bring himself to admit the Ultramontanist roots of Hitler and his Nazis, and so he has to make them Lutherans.
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« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2011, 09:54:01 AM »

Hitler wasn't Lutheran. He was one of your ultramontanists. And his martyr complex resembles yours.

Hitler was raised Catholic but became an anti-Catholic neo-pagan occultist.  He was hardly an ultramontanist.

Consider the source  Smiley

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonding
That's not a Lutheran church.

Come on, it looks like thousands of Churches across all of the Kaiser's Germanic states and those of Maria Theresa and the Hapsburgs. The Greek Catholic and protestant churches in my grandfather's village in Slovakia resemble that.

You can do better than that with your argument. By the way, you can't judge a book by its cover. Here is the inside....


We can do better than play Hitler was more/less evil than Stalin. Pick one...They are BOTH burning in the fires of hell along with their willing minions and both of them played religion and religious figures who thought they would benefit from alliances with either for the fools they were.

Memory Eternal for all of the men, women and children who died in the Great War. Lord have mercy on us all for still trying to somehow place blame or justify the positions of those who became pawns of the powerful in that war.
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« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2011, 11:21:57 AM »

So what?  Should I post a picture of Stalin's boyhood church in Gori?
Please do.  I like Georgian architecture.

I don't know of many Orthodox who deny the background of Stalin and the communists, but synleszka (who brought this issue up) cant' bring himself to admit the Ultramontanist roots of Hitler and his Nazis, and so he has to make them Lutherans.

I also don't know of any Catholics who are trying to get Hitler canonized.
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« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2011, 11:34:33 AM »


Stop it, who cares?? Those Poles were for the major part Roman Catholic. It is better that those ultramontanist be destroyed by the armies of Lutheran Germany. After all Roman Catholics are the sons of the antichrist, worse than the Turks, all of them are nazist cooperators, et cetera. After all, the Poles deserved to be annihilated, being Catholics. Grin Grin Grin
Don't cry over ultramontanists.
Hitler wasn't Lutheran. He was one of your ultramontanists. And his martyr complex resembles yours.

Hitler was a Catholic like Stalin was an Eastern Orthodox. At least Hitler didn't go to seminary like Uncle Joe. Two can play at this game, so you can retire that "Hitler was a Catholic" taunt.
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« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2011, 12:18:22 PM »

This conversation is further proof that Izzy is twelve years old.
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« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2011, 01:08:32 PM »

So what?  Should I post a picture of Stalin's boyhood church in Gori?
Please do.  I like Georgian architecture.

I don't know of many Orthodox who deny the background of Stalin and the communists, but synleszka (who brought this issue up) cant' bring himself to admit the Ultramontanist roots of Hitler and his Nazis, and so he has to make them Lutherans.

I also don't know of any Catholics who are trying to get Hitler canonized.
Not that they are Catholic, or even I would say even RC, but yes, such people do exist.  Same idolatrous impulse as those so called Orthodox you refer to.

Not that that has anything to the do with the point at hand, that Synleszka's assertion Lutheran Germany=Nazi Germany is without foundation.
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« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2011, 01:09:13 PM »

This conversation is further proof that Izzy is twelve years old.
It is further proof that Ultramontanists have responsibility issues.
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« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2011, 01:21:21 PM »

This just shows that Austrians are great at PR:

They convinced the world that Hitler was German.
And Beethoven was Austrian.

Oh yeah, and this thread is ridiculous.
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« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2011, 01:34:24 PM »

This just shows that Austrians are great at PR:

They convinced the world that Hitler was German.
And Beethoven was Austrian.

Oh yeah, and this thread is ridiculous.

 laugh laugh laugh

Post of the month!
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« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2011, 08:00:43 PM »

So what?  Should I post a picture of Stalin's boyhood church in Gori?
Please do.  I like Georgian architecture.

I don't know of many Orthodox who deny the background of Stalin and the communists, but synleszka (who brought this issue up) cant' bring himself to admit the Ultramontanist roots of Hitler and his Nazis, and so he has to make them Lutherans.

I also don't know of any Catholics who are trying to get Hitler canonized.
Not that they are Catholic, or even I would say even RC, but yes, such people do exist.  Same idolatrous impulse as those so called Orthodox you refer to.

Not that that has anything to the do with the point at hand, that Synleszka's assertion Lutheran Germany=Nazi Germany is without foundation.

I've never seen such a thing and I've spent far more time "getting to know" my enemy (neo-Nazis) than most people.  I would love to see you come up with anything more than isolated individuals unlike the organized groups of people who are trying to get the Russian and/or Georgian Churches to glorify Joseph Stalin.
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« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2011, 08:10:04 PM »

Quote
unlike the organized groups of people who are trying to get the Russian and/or Georgian Churches to glorify Joseph Stalin.
 

These groups might have a semblance of "organisation", but the chance of their wish coming true is zero. And I find it particularly amusing when Komsomolskaya Pravda has, in recent years, seen it fit to have on its front page a large article lobbying for the canonisation of Josef Stalin. They wouldn't know irony if it bit them on the ....
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« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2011, 08:16:47 PM »

Quote
unlike the organized groups of people who are trying to get the Russian and/or Georgian Churches to glorify Joseph Stalin.
 

These groups might have a semblance of "organisation", but the chance of their wish coming true is zero. And I find it particularly amusing when Komsomolskaya Pravda has, in recent years, seen it fit to have on its front page a large article lobbying for the canonisation of Josef Stalin. They wouldn't know irony if it bit them on the ....


Oh, I know they're not going to get their wish this side of the Parousia, so to speak, but it still doesn't change the fact that there are actual groups of people who would love to see St. Joseph of Gori.  My point is that I have never seen such a group of even the most misguided Roman Catholics who are agitating for St. Adolf of Braunau am Inn.
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« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2011, 08:28:33 PM »

Is it kitten time yet?

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« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2011, 08:46:10 PM »

I'm for kitten time. Anyone else? Smiley

Quote
They convinced the world that Hitler was German.
B-b-b-but Hitler had German citizenship!
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« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2011, 09:39:44 PM »

I'm for kitten time. Anyone else? Smiley


I'm always up for kitten time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bmhjf0rKe8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw4KVoEVcr0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rynvewVe21Y
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« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2011, 10:07:49 PM »

I'm for kitten time. Anyone else? Smiley

Quote
They convinced the world that Hitler was German.
B-b-b-but Hitler had German citizenship!
Bavarian.  The King of Bavaria Ludwig III himself naturalized him. On King Ludwig:
Quote
Until 1862, Ludwig's uncle had reigned as King Otto I of Greece. Although Otto had been deposed, Ludwig was still in line of succession to the Greek throne. Had he ever succeeded, this would have required that he renounce his Roman Catholic faith and become Greek Orthodox. Maria Theresa's uncle, Duke Francis V of Modena, was a staunch Roman Catholic. He required that as part of the marriage agreement Ludwig renounce his rights to the throne of Greece, and so ensure that his children would be raised Roman Catholic. In addition, the 1843 Greek Constitution forbade the Greek sovereign to be simultaneously ruler of another country. Consequently, Ludwig's younger brother Leopold technically succeeded upon their father's death to the rights of the deposed Otto I, King of Greece
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_III_of_Bavaria
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« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2011, 11:51:50 PM »

Bavarian is German, and was a part of the German Empire. Hitler needed to be a citizen of the Weimar Republic to become Chancellor of it. :\
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« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2011, 12:12:26 AM »

Bavarian is German, and was a part of the German Empire.
Not so much.  It retained its own diplomatic corps and army (to which the King let Adolf in). At one point, the Kingdom banned the flying of any but the Bavarian flag (i.e. not the Imperial flag).
Hitler needed to be a citizen of the Weimar Republic to become Chancellor of it. :\
you sure about that? (he was, but that's not the question).  Venezilos and Met/Abp/EP/Pope Metaxakis weren't Greek subjects when they became PM and Archbishop of Greece.
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« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2011, 12:19:02 AM »

I haven't been around for long.  So pardon me if I'm jumping to conclusions or being harshly judgmental.  All of which said... this thread is L A M E.  Seriously.  Don't people have better things to do with their time, like count the blades of grass on their lawn?
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« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2011, 12:19:32 AM »

Bavarian is German, and was a part of the German Empire.
Not so much.  It retained its own diplomatic corps and army (to which the King let Adolf in). At one point, the Kingdom banned the flying of any but the Bavarian flag (i.e. not the Imperial flag).
So it was sort of a Holy Roman Empire deal. Doesn't defeat my point; there was not a Bavaria separate from a German Empire on the map, regardless of how much a confederation instead of a federation it was. The kingdom of Bavaria was made up of ethnic Germans who spoke German and who were part of a greater German political identity.
Hitler needed to be a citizen of the Weimar Republic to become Chancellor of it. :\
you sure about that? (he was, but that's not the question).
[/quote]
Everything past this went way over my head.
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« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2011, 12:20:38 AM »

I haven't been around for long.  So pardon me if I'm jumping to conclusions or being harshly judgmental.  All of which said... this thread is L A M E.  Seriously.  Don't people have better things to do with their time, like count the blades of grass on their lawn?
You kidding me? I already spend an hour mowing those blades of grass. Why should I give them more satisfaction of splashing them with my blood, sweat and tears by counting the suckers? D:
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« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2011, 12:22:07 AM »

Sorry, here is our kleines Adoelfl that only an Austrian could love:

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« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2011, 12:25:06 AM »

I haven't been around for long.  So pardon me if I'm jumping to conclusions or being harshly judgmental.  All of which said... this thread is L A M E.  Seriously.  Don't people have better things to do with their time, like count the blades of grass on their lawn?

Inside baseball. Go play with the wiffle ball bat, the big red one with the huge sweet spot that Johnny just can't miss with, till you are ready to at least hit from a tee.

Oh yeah, welcome.
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« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2011, 12:28:52 AM »

Bavarian is German, and was a part of the German Empire.
Not so much.

No self-respecting Bavarian would stoop so low as to slander themselves by identifying with Germany, unless they had a cute Austrian to lead them astray.
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« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2011, 12:30:55 AM »

Bavarian is German, and was a part of the German Empire.
Not so much.

No self-respecting Bavarian would stoop so low as to slander themselves by identifying with Germany, unless they had a cute Austrian to lead them astray.

Not sure if this is sarcasm, but I'll take it up with a friend of mine who's living in Bayern(Bavaria for you non-Germans) at the moment and see what she has to say about that statement.

EDIT: I'm thinking it's sarcasm. Unless you say otherwise...
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 12:31:26 AM by Wandering Sheep » Logged
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« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2011, 12:34:01 AM »

Bavarian is German, and was a part of the German Empire.
Not so much.

No self-respecting Bavarian would stoop so low as to slander themselves by identifying with Germany, unless they had a cute Austrian to lead them astray.

Not sure if this is sarcasm, but I'll take it up with a friend of mine who's living in Bayern(Bavaria for you non-Germans) at the moment and see what she has to say about that statement.

EDIT: I'm thinking it's sarcasm. Unless you say otherwise...

Does anyone know what sarcasm even means anymore?

You might make a point that is could be slightly ironic.

But it is obviously hyperbole, even if you don't know anything about Bayern. And if you do, you know the hyperbole ain't that hyper.

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« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2011, 12:35:42 AM »

Bavarian is German, and was a part of the German Empire.
Not so much.

No self-respecting Bavarian would stoop so low as to slander themselves by identifying with Germany, unless they had a cute Austrian to lead them astray.

Not sure if this is sarcasm, but I'll take it up with a friend of mine who's living in Bayern(Bavaria for you non-Germans) at the moment and see what she has to say about that statement.

EDIT: I'm thinking it's sarcasm. Unless you say otherwise...

Does anyone know what sarcasm even means anymore?

You might make a point that is could be slightly ironic.

But it is obviously hyperbole, even if you don't know anything about Bayern. And if you do, you know the hyperbole ain't that hyper.



And it was funny. The whole Austrian, Bayern, Germany . . . oh forget it.

//:=|
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« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2011, 12:36:52 AM »

'Cuz they all be German anyway, right? Smiley If it wasn't for that meddling Bismarck...
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« Reply #39 on: June 22, 2011, 12:37:45 AM »

Bavarian is German, and was a part of the German Empire.
Not so much.  It retained its own diplomatic corps and army (to which the King let Adolf in). At one point, the Kingdom banned the flying of any but the Bavarian flag (i.e. not the Imperial flag).
So it was sort of a Holy Roman Empire deal. Doesn't defeat my point; there was not a Bavaria separate from a German Empire on the map,
Sort of was: after the war it had the dubious distinction of being the first nation to follow Russia to become a Communist state

regardless of how much a confederation instead of a federation it was. The kingdom of Bavaria was made up of ethnic Germans who spoke German and who were part of a greater German political identity.
That makes it different from Austria how?
Hitler needed to be a citizen of the Weimar Republic to become Chancellor of it. :\
you sure about that? (he was, but that's not the question).
Everything past this went way over my head.
Then you can answer what comes before: I don't see any requirement of citizenship in the Weimar Constitution on the office of Reichskanzler.
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« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2011, 12:42:57 AM »

//:=|

Emoticons are rubbish and killing people's ability to understand simple rhetoric.

Since I am a fish swimming up stream, the above emoticon will be my universal way of suggesting any shade of meaning that could not be picked up by someone possibly incapable of passing a Turning test much less, the Voight-Kampff.

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« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2011, 12:44:57 AM »

Fact remains that he did become a German citizen, he was the leader of Germany, he spoke of German racial superiority, etc, etc...
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« Reply #42 on: June 22, 2011, 12:46:47 AM »

'Cuz they all be German anyway, right? Smiley If it wasn't for that meddling Bismarck...

Piefke! //:=|

EDITED: To add emoticon.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 12:48:59 AM by orthonorm » Logged

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« Reply #43 on: June 22, 2011, 12:58:38 AM »

'Cuz they all be German anyway, right? Smiley If it wasn't for that meddling Bismarck...

Piefke! //:=|

EDITED: To add emoticon.
Northern German and proud of it. Cheesy
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« Reply #44 on: June 22, 2011, 01:03:01 AM »

Fact remains that he did become a German citizen, he was the leader of Germany, he spoke of German racial superiority, etc, etc...
And all without becoming Lutheran as Synleszka claims.

So that distinquishes him from the rest of the Austrians how?

Btw, Hitler first gained prominence when he interrupted and debated a speaker advocating Bavarian reunion with Austria. 

And we Prussians know that Bavaria resulted out of a failed attempt to make Germans out of the Austrians.
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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