Author Topic: query-judaism and reincarnation  (Read 535 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Phoenix73

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 269
query-judaism and reincarnation
« on: June 17, 2011, 08:35:24 PM »
read this article this morning, probably nonsense, I just did not think they believed in reincarnation. Poor dog

http://www.news.com.au/world/court-sentences-dog-to-death-by-stoning/story-e6frfkyi-1226077492084


Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 39,190
Re: query-judaism and reincarnation
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2011, 08:49:43 PM »
The Spirit is descended!
read this article this morning, probably nonsense, I just did not think they believed in reincarnation. Poor dog

http://www.news.com.au/world/court-sentences-dog-to-death-by-stoning/story-e6frfkyi-1226077492084


I remember some rabbi, whose name escapes, who was editing the whole Talmud for the first time in centuries or some such thing in the 80's, who talked being intrigued by the idea of reincarnation, in that it might be true. Then there are ideas like all Jewish souls were on Sinai on the first (OT) Pentecost.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 08:50:33 PM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Robb

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,537
Re: query-judaism and reincarnation
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2011, 08:55:09 PM »
My all time favoirte reincarnation story:

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2854189.stm

'Talking fish' stuns New York

A fish heading for slaughter in a New York market shouted warnings about the end of the world before it was killed, two fish cutters have claimed.
Zalmen Rosen, from the Skver sect of Hasidic Jews, says co-worker Luis Nivelo, a Christian, was about to kill a carp to be made into gefilte fish in the city's New Square Fish Market in January when it began shouting in Hebrew.

"It said 'Tzaruch shemirah' and 'Hasof bah'," Mr Rosen later told the New York Times newspaper.

"[It] essentially means [in Hebrew] that everyone needs to account for themselves because the end is nigh..."
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 08:56:00 PM by Robb »
Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert

Offline JamesRottnek

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,123
  • I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine
Re: query-judaism and reincarnation
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2011, 09:11:49 PM »
I would have to do some digging, and may decide to later, but when I was seriously considering Judaism as the possible true religion, I frequently read hasidic documents and stories, and there most certainly IS a belief in reincarnation, at least among many Jews.  However, it is not a belief that everyone is reincarnated, IIRC, but rather that some people had died before completing some task or mission they needed to, and so come back attached to a new body (it's been a while since I've read about this, but as I recall there were two main lines of thinking in the stories and documents I read, those being that the souls of such people were attached to new bodies that had their own souls, sort of like two people in one, and the other line of thinking being that it is a completely new body for the person).  One such story I recall reading is of a Rebbe who had incredible spiritual insight, and there was a woman who came to him because she was pregnant for a while past her due date (I believe nearly a week), and was getting worried.  Earlier, he had seen an old man who was on the verge of death, but not quite there.  Anyways, I don't recall specifics, but he determined that the woman would give birth only after the man dies, and I believe he even saw the man's spirit go into the woman right before she went into labor.

Anyways, my point is is that - at least among those Jews who would care about Kabballah (the actual Jewish thing, not the pop-religion thing) - a belief in reincarnation actually does exist.

EDIT: I would also note a belief that the Messiah is present in every generation, just waiting for the right circumstances to fall into place before revealing himself.  As such, depending on exactly how this is understood, this could also be a case of reincarnation.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 09:13:02 PM by JamesRottnek »
I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011

Offline rakovsky

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,830
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: query-judaism and reincarnation
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2011, 09:12:05 PM »
My all time favoirte reincarnation story:

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2854189.stm

'Talking fish' stuns New York

A fish heading for slaughter in a New York market shouted warnings about the end of the world before it was killed, two fish cutters have claimed.
Zalmen Rosen, from the Skver sect of Hasidic Jews, says co-worker Luis Nivelo, a Christian, was about to kill a carp to be made into gefilte fish in the city's New Square Fish Market in January when it began shouting in Hebrew.

"It said 'Tzaruch shemirah' and 'Hasof bah'," Mr Rosen later told the New York Times newspaper.

"[It] essentially means [in Hebrew] that everyone needs to account for themselves because the end is nigh..."



Quote

Mr Rosen also seems to have become rather tired of being questioned about his incredible experience.

"Ah, enough already about the fish," Mr Rosen said.

"I wish I never said anything about it. I'm getting so many calls every day, I've stopped answering. Israel, London, Miami, Brooklyn... they all want to hear about the talking fish."
From the link you gave.

It sounds like a joke. If they were serious and such an amazing thing happened, they wouldnt get tired so easily, they might write a book about it, as a life changing expreience or something. like about their religious ideas.
This sounds like oh we are tired of it... [it was just a joke]" except they cant say the brackets.

Don't you think so?

Offline Jetavan

  • Argumentum ad australopithecum
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,580
  • Barlaam and Josaphat
    • The Mystical Theology
Re: query-judaism and reincarnation
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2011, 12:40:45 PM »
....
It sounds like a joke. If they were serious and such an amazing thing happened, they wouldnt get tired so easily, they might write a book about it, as a life changing expreience or something. like about their religious ideas.
This sounds like oh we are tired of it... [it was just a joke]" except they cant say the brackets.

Don't you think so?
Just because something "miraculous" happened to someone, doesn't mean that that person's life will change. A miracle -- defined as something happening in the objective world -- is something wondrous, but it in itself won't change your basic, subjective personality. I'm sure the lepers that Jesus healed considered it a miracle, but they (except one) soon forgot about it.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 12:42:03 PM by Jetavan »
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline Jetavan

  • Argumentum ad australopithecum
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,580
  • Barlaam and Josaphat
    • The Mystical Theology
Re: query-judaism and reincarnation
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2011, 12:50:09 PM »
All Hasidic Jewish traditions teach gilgul (reincarnation), including Chabad Lubavitch, which is largely responsible (some say) for the current Jewish revival.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 12:54:10 PM by Jetavan »
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.