OrthodoxChristianity.net
December 20, 2014, 10:52:02 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: when to bow when we make the sign of the cross  (Read 908 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Tikhon.of.Colorado
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 2,363



« on: June 14, 2011, 12:52:58 AM »

I wonder when it's most appropriate to bow when making the sign of the cross.  I bow at "God save me a sinner (x3)" during my prayers, and when anything is chanted three times at liturgy.

When else should we bow?  Since converting, I've gone from not bowing at all, moderately bowing, and now I'm a bowing fiend.  When exactly is it not appropriate to bow after making the sign of the cross?
Logged

"It is true that I am not always faithful, but I never lose courage, I leave myself in the Arms of Our Lord." - St. Thérèse of Lisieux
Benjamin the Red
Recovering Calvinist
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America, Diocese of Dallas and the South ||| American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 1,601


Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me.


« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2011, 08:55:22 AM »

I wonder when it's most appropriate to bow when making the sign of the cross.  I bow at "God save me a sinner (x3)" during my prayers, and when anything is chanted three times at liturgy.

When else should we bow?  Since converting, I've gone from not bowing at all, moderately bowing, and now I'm a bowing fiend.  When exactly is it not appropriate to bow after making the sign of the cross?

You do it just about all the time during Great Lent! (as bows become prostrations, and crossing becomes a bow). Otherwise, the times you've mentioned above are dead on. You can bow at the refains of a canon (sentences chanted at Matins like, "O Holy Martyr Name, pray to God for us!" or "Glory O Lord to thy Holy Resurrection!", and then cross yourself at "Glory..." and "Both now...", which are the standard refrains at the end of an ode (this is also transformed at Lent, particularly for the Great Canon of St. Andrew of Crete, when we prostrate at "Have mercy on me, O God..." and bow at the "Glory..." and "Both now..."

At the Liturgy, you can also bow in the anaphora at "It is meet and right...", "Take eat...", "drink of it all of you..." and "Thine Own of Thine Own..." Also, during the actual epiclesis at "make this bread...", "make what is in this cup..." and "changing them by the Holy Spirit. Amen! Amen! Amen!" bowing at the final "Amen." If it is not a Sunday, you make a full prostration at the end of the Amens (and some traditions will prostrate here even on a Sunday. It's quite beautiful.) You also bow immediately after the priest proclaims "Especially for Our Most Holy, Most Pure, Most Blessed and Glorious Lady Theotokos and Ever-Virgin Mary!"

You may also bow as the priest stands on the solea with the Gifts and proclaims "In the fear of God..." (this is a prostration if not on a Sunday or Feast of the Lord). And finally, you may bow at the end of the Liturgy at "...now and ever and unto ages of ages!" When the priest moves the remaining Gifts from the Altar back to the Table of Oblation (if you have communed. If not, it's a prostration....unless its Sunday or a Feast of the Lord, then bow regardless).

If I've forgotten anything, my apologies! I'm definitely open to additions to and corrections of what I've said, and I hope I've been helpful!  Grin
« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 08:57:23 AM by Benjamin the Red » Logged

"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy
bogdan
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 1,615



« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2011, 09:14:44 AM »

I was under the impression that a slight bow (more of a "lean forward") is always made when making the sign of the Cross (except for the Alleluia in the middle of the Six Psalms, when we are to stand motionless).

Make the sign of the Cross with a bow when the priest blesses the people with the Cross (equivalent to venerating the Cross).

But only bow when the priest blesses with his hand, without making the sign of the Cross. (I remember a priest saying emphatically, "I am not a saint! So don't make the sign of the Cross at me!")
Logged
LizaSymonenko
Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
Global Moderator
Toumarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: God's Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Posts: 13,624



WWW
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2011, 09:18:53 AM »


Bogdan, that is exactly as I've been taught, too.
Logged

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria
Tikhon.of.Colorado
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 2,363



« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2011, 12:26:36 PM »

Thanks, everyone!  very helpful!
Logged

"It is true that I am not always faithful, but I never lose courage, I leave myself in the Arms of Our Lord." - St. Thérèse of Lisieux
joasia
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: RTOC
Posts: 224



« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2011, 12:39:31 PM »

I'd also like to add something about bows in general.  I was told way back, not to cross myself and bow at the same time as that is making the Cross bent.  First we cross ourselves fully, then bow.  I've seen some people bent over and crossing themselves too.  And others whip their hands so fast when crossing themselves.  The demons rejoice at this as we are being careless with that which is our most strongest weapon against them. 
Logged

Stillness,  prayer, love and self-control are a four-horsed chariot bearing the intellect to Heaven. (Philokalia 2: p.308 - #24) - St. Thalassios

The proper activity of the intellect is to be attentive at every moment to the words of God.   (Philokalia 2: p. 308 - # 30) - St. Thalassios
Tikhon.of.Colorado
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 2,363



« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2011, 12:41:51 PM »

I'd also like to add something about bows in general.  I was told way back, not to cross myself and bow at the same time as that is making the Cross bent.  First we cross ourselves fully, then bow.  I've seen some people bent over and crossing themselves too.  And others whip their hands so fast when crossing themselves.  The demons rejoice at this as we are being careless with that which is our most strongest weapon against them. 

very true, I've also seen this.  I've seen people make little triangles in the air over their faces, thinking their making the sign of the cross quickly. 
Logged

"It is true that I am not always faithful, but I never lose courage, I leave myself in the Arms of Our Lord." - St. Thérèse of Lisieux
Shlomlokh
主哀れめよ!
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Bulgarian
Posts: 1,301



« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2011, 12:58:02 PM »


Bogdan, that is exactly as I've been taught, too.
Same here!

In Christ,
Andrew
Logged

"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos
Benjamin the Red
Recovering Calvinist
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America, Diocese of Dallas and the South ||| American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 1,601


Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me.


« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2011, 04:37:37 PM »


Bogdan, that is exactly as I've been taught, too.
Same here!

In Christ,
Andrew

Same for me, too.

I believe the "slight bow" is a Slavic pious custom. I could be wrong.
Logged

"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy
Shlomlokh
主哀れめよ!
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Bulgarian
Posts: 1,301



« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2011, 05:44:41 PM »


Bogdan, that is exactly as I've been taught, too.
Same here!

In Christ,
Andrew

Same for me, too.

I believe the "slight bow" is a Slavic pious custom. I could be wrong.
Could be, but I naturally felt inclined to do it before having any Slavic exposure. It almost seems completely natural, in a sense, along with many other aspects of our Faith. Smiley

In Christ,
Andrew
Logged

"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos
Benjamin the Red
Recovering Calvinist
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America, Diocese of Dallas and the South ||| American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 1,601


Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me.


« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2011, 12:01:07 PM »


Bogdan, that is exactly as I've been taught, too.
Same here!

In Christ,
Andrew

Same for me, too.

I believe the "slight bow" is a Slavic pious custom. I could be wrong.
Could be, but I naturally felt inclined to do it before having any Slavic exposure. It almost seems completely natural, in a sense, along with many other aspects of our Faith. Smiley

In Christ,
Andrew

It always felt natural to me, too, but then again...I was catachized in an OCA parish that sticks quite unilaterally to Russian traditions (think liberal ROCOR! lol), so I've always been around it. Whether I think to do it because it "feels right" or because that's what I've always seen...I can't really say.
Logged

"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.072 seconds with 38 queries.