OrthodoxChristianity.net
September 18, 2014, 05:55:30 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Greek Pentecost customs query  (Read 1058 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
SubdeaconDavid
"...the spread of the light of Orthodoxy among the peoples of all the lands where our Church exists continues as an inseparable part of our mission": Metropolitan Hilarion, First Hierarch of ROCOR
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Russian Orthodox Church Abroad (ROCOR)
Posts: 504


Помилуй мя Боже, по велицей милости Твоей


WWW
« on: June 13, 2011, 07:28:04 AM »

At the Saturday first vespers for Pentecost at the Hierarchical Vespers served by Bishop Ezekiel (GOA-EP Australia) before the service finished the clergy - apart from 1 priest and the bishop unvested.  There were 3 priests, a deacon and subdeacon who did so. Can anyone explain this?
Logged

Visit my blog@  http://orthodoxtasmania.blogspot.com

To the Russians abroad it has been granted to shine in the whole world  the light of Orthodoxy, so that other peoples, seeing their good deeds, might glorify our Father in Heaven, and thus obtain salvation
S John of Shanghai & San Francisco
pensateomnia
Bibliophylax
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Posts: 2,347


metron ariston


« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2011, 09:31:24 AM »

Can you be more specific? Did they unvest after the conclusion of the Divine Liturgy, i.e. at the start of the Kneeling Vespers of Pentecost? If so (and that would be my guess), they were simply taking off vestments that were no longer called for by the service itself.
Logged

But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)
arimethea
Getting too old for this
Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Antioch
Posts: 2,968


Does anyone really care what you think?


« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2011, 09:48:51 AM »

At Great Vespers the proper rubric for both the Mar Sabas and Great Church, is at the Aposticha, to unvest and, only the main celebrant keeps on his epitrichlion on in order to complete the service. This is one of those rubrics that is often ignore.

I am curious about two things you say...
1) What do you mean by "first vespers"
2) How was the bishop vested?
Logged

Joseph
SubdeaconDavid
"...the spread of the light of Orthodoxy among the peoples of all the lands where our Church exists continues as an inseparable part of our mission": Metropolitan Hilarion, First Hierarch of ROCOR
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Russian Orthodox Church Abroad (ROCOR)
Posts: 504


Помилуй мя Боже, по велицей милости Твоей


WWW
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2011, 09:49:11 AM »

Sorry - no it occurred in Vespers on Saturday night.  The first I saw was the Deacon unvesting, then the priests did it more or less at the same time and the subdeacon did it last.  That left the senior priest and the bishop who finished the service and then came forward to bless the people.
It had the look of "right we're finished, time to go" rather than anything that was liturgical.  I am not meaning that as a criticism either.  I just could not place it but i guess when I see the parish priest next I'll ask him.  
Logged

Visit my blog@  http://orthodoxtasmania.blogspot.com

To the Russians abroad it has been granted to shine in the whole world  the light of Orthodoxy, so that other peoples, seeing their good deeds, might glorify our Father in Heaven, and thus obtain salvation
S John of Shanghai & San Francisco
SubdeaconDavid
"...the spread of the light of Orthodoxy among the peoples of all the lands where our Church exists continues as an inseparable part of our mission": Metropolitan Hilarion, First Hierarch of ROCOR
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Russian Orthodox Church Abroad (ROCOR)
Posts: 504


Помилуй мя Боже, по велицей милости Твоей


WWW
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2011, 09:54:54 AM »

At Great Vespers the proper rubric for both the Mar Sabas and Great Church, is at the Aposticha, to unvest and, only the main celebrant keeps on his epitrichlion on in order to complete the service. This is one of those rubrics that is often ignore.

I am curious about two things you say...
1) What do you mean by "first vespers"
2) How was the bishop vested?
The bishop was vested normally.  The priest had a nabrednik and gold pectoral cross.  In a lovely touch on Sunday at the Pentecost Vespers these were awarded to the Rector, Fr. Timothy Evangelides, a truly great priest and servant of the Greek church.
Logged

Visit my blog@  http://orthodoxtasmania.blogspot.com

To the Russians abroad it has been granted to shine in the whole world  the light of Orthodoxy, so that other peoples, seeing their good deeds, might glorify our Father in Heaven, and thus obtain salvation
S John of Shanghai & San Francisco
arimethea
Getting too old for this
Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Antioch
Posts: 2,968


Does anyone really care what you think?


« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2011, 01:43:57 PM »

At Great Vespers the proper rubric for both the Mar Sabas and Great Church, is at the Aposticha, to unvest and, only the main celebrant keeps on his epitrichlion on in order to complete the service. This is one of those rubrics that is often ignore.

I am curious about two things you say...
1) What do you mean by "first vespers"
2) How was the bishop vested?
The bishop was vested normally.  The priest had a nabrednik and gold pectoral cross.  In a lovely touch on Sunday at the Pentecost Vespers these were awarded to the Rector, Fr. Timothy Evangelides, a truly great priest and servant of the Greek church.
What do you mean by normally?
Also what is a nabrednik?
Logged

Joseph
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2011, 02:59:46 PM »

Also what is a nabrednik?

Slavonic Priests' award (minor version of epigonation). I wonder how a Greek Priest got one.
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
Subdeacon Michael
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Posts: 195



« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2011, 03:00:30 PM »

At Great Vespers the proper rubric for both the Mar Sabas and Great Church, is at the Aposticha, to unvest and, only the main celebrant keeps on his epitrichlion on in order to complete the service. This is one of those rubrics that is often ignore.

I am curious about two things you say...
1) What do you mean by "first vespers"
2) How was the bishop vested?
The bishop was vested normally.  The priest had a nabrednik and gold pectoral cross.  In a lovely touch on Sunday at the Pentecost Vespers these were awarded to the Rector, Fr. Timothy Evangelides, a truly great priest and servant of the Greek church.
What do you mean by normally?
Also what is a nabrednik?

The nabedrennik is a "thigh-shield" vestment that may be awarded to priests for some particular service to the Church.  It is worn on the right-hand side but, if the palitsa is subsequently awarded, it is worn on the right and the nabedrennik is moved to the other side.  The nabedrennik is rectangular while the palitsa is diamond-shaped.  You can see them in this vestment set.

I'm guessing "first Vespers" is simply a means of distinguishing the service in question from the second service of Vespers associated with Pentecost.

M
Logged

'There is nothing upon earth holier, higher, grander, more solemn, more life-giving than the Liturgy. The church, at this particular time, becomes an earthly heaven; those who officiate represent Christ Himself, the angels, the cherubim, seraphim and apostles.' - St John of Kronstadt
arimethea
Getting too old for this
Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Antioch
Posts: 2,968


Does anyone really care what you think?


« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2011, 03:37:41 PM »

Why would a priest wear a nabedrennik at Vespers? Usually these items are only worn when fully vested.
Logged

Joseph
akimori makoto
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Non-heretical Christian
Jurisdiction: Fully-sik-hektic archdiocese of Australia, bro
Posts: 3,126

No-one bound by fleshly pleasures is worthy ...


« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2011, 12:08:06 AM »

This year, the kneeling vespers were read at the cathedral immediately following the celebration of the Divine Liturgy on Sunday morning.

Our priest did not unvest (divest?) to read the prayers.

Following arimethea, it seems to be a rubric not often observed.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 12:09:28 AM by akimori makoto » Logged

The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.
Alveus Lacuna
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,883



« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2011, 12:25:07 AM »

Our priest did not unvest (divest?) to read the prayers.

Following arimethea, it seems to be a rubric not often observed.

Of course why get caught up on such rubrics when Vespers is being performed in the morning?
Logged
akimori makoto
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Non-heretical Christian
Jurisdiction: Fully-sik-hektic archdiocese of Australia, bro
Posts: 3,126

No-one bound by fleshly pleasures is worthy ...


« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2011, 12:32:53 AM »

Our priest did not unvest (divest?) to read the prayers.

Following arimethea, it seems to be a rubric not often observed.

Of course why get caught up on such rubrics when Vespers is being performed in the morning?

Indeed. Every time "that this evening may be perfect" or "accept our evening prayer" was read I inwardly freaked out a little.
Logged

The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.
Cognomen
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Phyletism Rules, OK
Posts: 1,968


Ungrateful Biped


« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2011, 12:43:53 AM »

Our priest did not unvest (divest?) to read the prayers.Following arimethea, it seems to be a rubric not often observed.

Of course why get caught up on such rubrics when Vespers is being performed in the morning?

Indeed. Every time "that this evening may be perfect" or "accept our evening prayer" was read I inwardly freaked out a little.

You weren't alone in that.
Logged

North American Eastern Orthodox Parish Council Delegate for the Canonization of Saints Twin Towers and Pentagon, as well as the Propagation of the Doctrine of the Assumption of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 (NAEOPCDCSTTPPDAMAFM®).
FormerReformer
Convertodox of the convertodox
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: I'll take (e) for "all of the above"
Posts: 2,428



WWW
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2011, 12:48:31 AM »

Our priest did not unvest (divest?) to read the prayers.Following arimethea, it seems to be a rubric not often observed.

Of course why get caught up on such rubrics when Vespers is being performed in the morning?

Indeed. Every time "that this evening may be perfect" or "accept our evening prayer" was read I inwardly freaked out a little.

You weren't alone in that.

Given my wildly divergent sleep schedule I didn't so much bat an eye at that as "Phos Hilaron"- "Now that we have come to the setting of the sun" huh?
Logged

"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

Oh, no: I've succumbed to Hyperdoxy!
SubdeaconDavid
"...the spread of the light of Orthodoxy among the peoples of all the lands where our Church exists continues as an inseparable part of our mission": Metropolitan Hilarion, First Hierarch of ROCOR
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Russian Orthodox Church Abroad (ROCOR)
Posts: 504


Помилуй мя Боже, по велицей милости Твоей


WWW
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2011, 08:09:38 AM »

Our priest did not unvest (divest?) to read the prayers.Following arimethea, it seems to be a rubric not often observed.

Of course why get caught up on such rubrics when Vespers is being performed in the morning?

Indeed. Every time "that this evening may be perfect" or "accept our evening prayer" was read I inwardly freaked out a little.

You weren't alone in that.
Yes I think Vespers started at about 1120 a.m.  A little early....
Logged

Visit my blog@  http://orthodoxtasmania.blogspot.com

To the Russians abroad it has been granted to shine in the whole world  the light of Orthodoxy, so that other peoples, seeing their good deeds, might glorify our Father in Heaven, and thus obtain salvation
S John of Shanghai & San Francisco
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2011, 08:29:06 AM »

Our priest did not unvest (divest?) to read the prayers.

Following arimethea, it seems to be a rubric not often observed.

Of course why get caught up on such rubrics when Vespers is being performed in the morning?

What's the problem?!  It is totally normal to serve Vespers in the morning for all the weekdays of the Great Fast.   laugh Grin
« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 08:35:11 AM by Irish Hermit » Logged
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.082 seconds with 43 queries.