Author Topic: Greek Pentecost customs query  (Read 1248 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SubdeaconDavid

  • "...the spread of the light of Orthodoxy among the peoples of all the lands where our Church exists continues as an inseparable part of our mission": Metropolitan Hilarion, First Hierarch of ROCOR
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 504
  • Помилуй мя Боже, по велицей милости Твоей
    • Russian Orthodox Tasmania
Greek Pentecost customs query
« on: June 13, 2011, 07:28:04 AM »
At the Saturday first vespers for Pentecost at the Hierarchical Vespers served by Bishop Ezekiel (GOA-EP Australia) before the service finished the clergy - apart from 1 priest and the bishop unvested.  There were 3 priests, a deacon and subdeacon who did so. Can anyone explain this?
Visit my blog@  http://orthodoxtasmania.blogspot.com

To the Russians abroad it has been granted to shine in the whole world  the light of Orthodoxy, so that other peoples, seeing their good deeds, might glorify our Father in Heaven, and thus obtain salvation
S John of Shanghai & San Francisco

Offline pensateomnia

  • Bibliophylax
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,360
  • metron ariston
Re: Greek Pentecost customs query
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2011, 09:31:24 AM »
Can you be more specific? Did they unvest after the conclusion of the Divine Liturgy, i.e. at the start of the Kneeling Vespers of Pentecost? If so (and that would be my guess), they were simply taking off vestments that were no longer called for by the service itself.
But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)

Offline arimethea

  • Getting too old for this
  • Moderator
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,968
  • Does anyone really care what you think?
Re: Greek Pentecost customs query
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2011, 09:48:51 AM »
At Great Vespers the proper rubric for both the Mar Sabas and Great Church, is at the Aposticha, to unvest and, only the main celebrant keeps on his epitrichlion on in order to complete the service. This is one of those rubrics that is often ignore.

I am curious about two things you say...
1) What do you mean by "first vespers"
2) How was the bishop vested?
Joseph

Offline SubdeaconDavid

  • "...the spread of the light of Orthodoxy among the peoples of all the lands where our Church exists continues as an inseparable part of our mission": Metropolitan Hilarion, First Hierarch of ROCOR
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 504
  • Помилуй мя Боже, по велицей милости Твоей
    • Russian Orthodox Tasmania
Re: Greek Pentecost customs query
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2011, 09:49:11 AM »
Sorry - no it occurred in Vespers on Saturday night.  The first I saw was the Deacon unvesting, then the priests did it more or less at the same time and the subdeacon did it last.  That left the senior priest and the bishop who finished the service and then came forward to bless the people.
It had the look of "right we're finished, time to go" rather than anything that was liturgical.  I am not meaning that as a criticism either.  I just could not place it but i guess when I see the parish priest next I'll ask him.  
Visit my blog@  http://orthodoxtasmania.blogspot.com

To the Russians abroad it has been granted to shine in the whole world  the light of Orthodoxy, so that other peoples, seeing their good deeds, might glorify our Father in Heaven, and thus obtain salvation
S John of Shanghai & San Francisco

Offline SubdeaconDavid

  • "...the spread of the light of Orthodoxy among the peoples of all the lands where our Church exists continues as an inseparable part of our mission": Metropolitan Hilarion, First Hierarch of ROCOR
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 504
  • Помилуй мя Боже, по велицей милости Твоей
    • Russian Orthodox Tasmania
Re: Greek Pentecost customs query
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2011, 09:54:54 AM »
At Great Vespers the proper rubric for both the Mar Sabas and Great Church, is at the Aposticha, to unvest and, only the main celebrant keeps on his epitrichlion on in order to complete the service. This is one of those rubrics that is often ignore.

I am curious about two things you say...
1) What do you mean by "first vespers"
2) How was the bishop vested?
The bishop was vested normally.  The priest had a nabrednik and gold pectoral cross.  In a lovely touch on Sunday at the Pentecost Vespers these were awarded to the Rector, Fr. Timothy Evangelides, a truly great priest and servant of the Greek church.
Visit my blog@  http://orthodoxtasmania.blogspot.com

To the Russians abroad it has been granted to shine in the whole world  the light of Orthodoxy, so that other peoples, seeing their good deeds, might glorify our Father in Heaven, and thus obtain salvation
S John of Shanghai & San Francisco

Offline arimethea

  • Getting too old for this
  • Moderator
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,968
  • Does anyone really care what you think?
Re: Greek Pentecost customs query
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2011, 01:43:57 PM »
At Great Vespers the proper rubric for both the Mar Sabas and Great Church, is at the Aposticha, to unvest and, only the main celebrant keeps on his epitrichlion on in order to complete the service. This is one of those rubrics that is often ignore.

I am curious about two things you say...
1) What do you mean by "first vespers"
2) How was the bishop vested?
The bishop was vested normally.  The priest had a nabrednik and gold pectoral cross.  In a lovely touch on Sunday at the Pentecost Vespers these were awarded to the Rector, Fr. Timothy Evangelides, a truly great priest and servant of the Greek church.
What do you mean by normally?
Also what is a nabrednik?
Joseph

Offline mike

  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,589
Re: Greek Pentecost customs query
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2011, 02:59:46 PM »
Also what is a nabrednik?

Slavonic Priests' award (minor version of epigonation). I wonder how a Greek Priest got one.
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

not everything I typed before [insert current date] may reflect my current views on the subject

Offline Subdeacon Michael

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 195
Re: Greek Pentecost customs query
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2011, 03:00:30 PM »
At Great Vespers the proper rubric for both the Mar Sabas and Great Church, is at the Aposticha, to unvest and, only the main celebrant keeps on his epitrichlion on in order to complete the service. This is one of those rubrics that is often ignore.

I am curious about two things you say...
1) What do you mean by "first vespers"
2) How was the bishop vested?
The bishop was vested normally.  The priest had a nabrednik and gold pectoral cross.  In a lovely touch on Sunday at the Pentecost Vespers these were awarded to the Rector, Fr. Timothy Evangelides, a truly great priest and servant of the Greek church.
What do you mean by normally?
Also what is a nabrednik?

The nabedrennik is a "thigh-shield" vestment that may be awarded to priests for some particular service to the Church.  It is worn on the right-hand side but, if the palitsa is subsequently awarded, it is worn on the right and the nabedrennik is moved to the other side.  The nabedrennik is rectangular while the palitsa is diamond-shaped.  You can see them in this vestment set.

I'm guessing "first Vespers" is simply a means of distinguishing the service in question from the second service of Vespers associated with Pentecost.

M
'There is nothing upon earth holier, higher, grander, more solemn, more life-giving than the Liturgy. The church, at this particular time, becomes an earthly heaven; those who officiate represent Christ Himself, the angels, the cherubim, seraphim and apostles.' - St John of Kronstadt

Offline arimethea

  • Getting too old for this
  • Moderator
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,968
  • Does anyone really care what you think?
Re: Greek Pentecost customs query
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2011, 03:37:41 PM »
Why would a priest wear a nabedrennik at Vespers? Usually these items are only worn when fully vested.
Joseph

Offline akimori makoto

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,126
  • No-one bound by fleshly pleasures is worthy ...
Re: Greek Pentecost customs query
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2011, 12:08:06 AM »
This year, the kneeling vespers were read at the cathedral immediately following the celebration of the Divine Liturgy on Sunday morning.

Our priest did not unvest (divest?) to read the prayers.

Following arimethea, it seems to be a rubric not often observed.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 12:09:28 AM by akimori makoto »
The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.

Offline Alveus Lacuna

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,059
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Greek Pentecost customs query
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2011, 12:25:07 AM »
Our priest did not unvest (divest?) to read the prayers.

Following arimethea, it seems to be a rubric not often observed.

Of course why get caught up on such rubrics when Vespers is being performed in the morning?

Offline akimori makoto

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,126
  • No-one bound by fleshly pleasures is worthy ...
Re: Greek Pentecost customs query
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2011, 12:32:53 AM »
Our priest did not unvest (divest?) to read the prayers.

Following arimethea, it seems to be a rubric not often observed.

Of course why get caught up on such rubrics when Vespers is being performed in the morning?

Indeed. Every time "that this evening may be perfect" or "accept our evening prayer" was read I inwardly freaked out a little.
The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.

Offline Cognomen

  • Site Supporter
  • OC.net guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,972
  • Ungrateful Biped
Re: Greek Pentecost customs query
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2011, 12:43:53 AM »
Our priest did not unvest (divest?) to read the prayers.Following arimethea, it seems to be a rubric not often observed.

Of course why get caught up on such rubrics when Vespers is being performed in the morning?

Indeed. Every time "that this evening may be perfect" or "accept our evening prayer" was read I inwardly freaked out a little.

You weren't alone in that.
North American Eastern Orthodox Parish Council Delegate for the Canonization of Saints Twin Towers and Pentagon, as well as the Propagation of the Doctrine of the Assumption of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 (NAEOPCDCSTTPPDAMAFM®).

Offline FormerReformer

  • Convertodox of the convertodox
  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,554
    • Music and Orthodoxy
  • Faith: Convertodox
  • Jurisdiction: Netodoxy
Re: Greek Pentecost customs query
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2011, 12:48:31 AM »
Our priest did not unvest (divest?) to read the prayers.Following arimethea, it seems to be a rubric not often observed.

Of course why get caught up on such rubrics when Vespers is being performed in the morning?

Indeed. Every time "that this evening may be perfect" or "accept our evening prayer" was read I inwardly freaked out a little.

You weren't alone in that.

Given my wildly divergent sleep schedule I didn't so much bat an eye at that as "Phos Hilaron"- "Now that we have come to the setting of the sun" huh?
"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

Oh, no: I've succumbed to Hyperdoxy!

Offline SubdeaconDavid

  • "...the spread of the light of Orthodoxy among the peoples of all the lands where our Church exists continues as an inseparable part of our mission": Metropolitan Hilarion, First Hierarch of ROCOR
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 504
  • Помилуй мя Боже, по велицей милости Твоей
    • Russian Orthodox Tasmania
Re: Greek Pentecost customs query
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2011, 08:09:38 AM »
Our priest did not unvest (divest?) to read the prayers.Following arimethea, it seems to be a rubric not often observed.

Of course why get caught up on such rubrics when Vespers is being performed in the morning?

Indeed. Every time "that this evening may be perfect" or "accept our evening prayer" was read I inwardly freaked out a little.

You weren't alone in that.
Yes I think Vespers started at about 1120 a.m.  A little early....
Visit my blog@  http://orthodoxtasmania.blogspot.com

To the Russians abroad it has been granted to shine in the whole world  the light of Orthodoxy, so that other peoples, seeing their good deeds, might glorify our Father in Heaven, and thus obtain salvation
S John of Shanghai & San Francisco

Offline Irish Hermit

  • Kibernetski Kaludjer
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,991
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us
Re: Greek Pentecost customs query
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2011, 08:29:06 AM »
Our priest did not unvest (divest?) to read the prayers.

Following arimethea, it seems to be a rubric not often observed.

Of course why get caught up on such rubrics when Vespers is being performed in the morning?

What's the problem?!  It is totally normal to serve Vespers in the morning for all the weekdays of the Great Fast.   :laugh: ;D
« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 08:35:11 AM by Irish Hermit »