|
mike
|
 |
« on: June 12, 2011, 08:43:15 AM » |
|
On what occasions Presbyters and Deacons can put their headgear on? Is it optionall or do they have to do it?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Nigula Qian Zishi
|
|
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2011, 09:22:48 AM » |
|
Depending on the headgear, different times. Too bad all clergy do not wear headgear at appointed times and many modern clergy never wear it at all Maybe because it will mes up their short hair?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
IXOYE
|
|
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2011, 11:25:38 AM » |
|
Depending on the headgear, different times. Too bad all clergy do not wear headgear at appointed times and many modern clergy never wear it at all Maybe because it will mes up their short hair?
Could that also be an issue of cost? The formal clerical hats cost about $ 100 or more. I am of the opinion that clerics should wear clerical hats. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
IXOYE
|
|
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2011, 11:28:44 AM » |
|
On what occasions Presbyters and Deacons can put their headgear on? Is it optionall or do they have to do it?
Generally, at services except when the Gospel is read. In Greece priests wear both cassock and hat while going out. It is a requirement there. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
mike
|
|
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2011, 02:20:52 PM » |
|
In one Parish I attend they put mitres and kamilavkas on 12 major feasts, Pascha and Church patron day.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
podkarpatska
|
|
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2011, 08:53:27 PM » |
|
It is rather ironic that the new Greek Catholic priest in our town is from Slovakia and he came with quite the collection of hats which surprised his own congregation as well as those of the neighboring Orthodox parishes!
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
NicholasMyra
|
|
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2011, 08:57:58 PM » |
|
Are we talking about the Turkish civic official hats?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.
"You are philosophical innovators. As for me, I follow the Fathers." -Every heresiarch ever |
|
|
|
Nigula Qian Zishi
|
 |
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2011, 09:07:49 AM » |
|
We are talking about the Skufia: A soft-sided cap and the Kamilavka: A stiff hat.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Monk Vasyl
|
|
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2011, 09:42:53 AM » |
|
When I was ordained a hierodeacon, my archbishop never mentioned that as a deacon I should wear a kamilavka when serving. Years later when I served at an OCA parish with His Grace, Bishop Nikon, he offered me his to wear during the Liturgy. I spoke with our newest bishop about it and he told me actually I should be wearing the klobuk. This left me totally confused. And after investigating it I found pictures of hierodeacons wearing the klobuk while serving. I've also communicated with an OCA hierodeacon that was blessed to wear the klobuk while serving. It doesn't seem practical to wear it while serving as the veil would get in the way. According to the Old Rite, the monastic veil is much shorter than what we wear and would be easier and practical to wear while serving.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
The unworthy hierodeacon, Vasyl
|
|
|
|
Orthodox11
|
|
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2011, 10:04:47 AM » |
|
In the Greek tradition, headgear is generally worn at all times outside the sanctuary, but removed when serving inside the altar area.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
mike
|
|
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2011, 12:39:37 PM » |
|
We are talking about the Skufia: A soft-sided cap and the Kamilavka: A stiff hat.
And the mitre - a Christmass tree hat. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Monk Vasyl
|
|
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2011, 12:50:56 PM » |
|
On what occasions Presbyters and Deacons can put their headgear on? Is it optionall or do they have to do it?
From what I remember, the deacon or priest needs to awarded the headgear in order to wear it during liturgical services. Outside of church there isn't the need for a blessing or an award. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
The unworthy hierodeacon, Vasyl
|
|
|
|
mike
|
|
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2011, 12:53:15 PM » |
|
Yes. The question is when they should wear them? All the time? On feasts? On Liturgies?...
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Monk Vasyl
|
|
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2011, 01:10:24 PM » |
|
Generally when given an award or blessing to wear headgear during liturgical services, it would be at every service. Tho, I know with the mitre some priests only wear it at Nativity and Pascha.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
The unworthy hierodeacon, Vasyl
|
|
|
|
IXOYE
|
|
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2011, 01:11:49 PM » |
|
Yes. The question is when they should wear them? All the time? On feasts? On Liturgies?...
Yes. For a monastic I have heard that they should cover their heads at all times. Married clergy wear them all the time, sometimes or not at all depending on jurisdiction. There is one jurisdiction in the U.S. that forbids cassocks outside the church. Much different for Greece where they are required traditional dress including hat. So it can be a jurisdictional issue. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
NicholasMyra
|
|
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2011, 01:16:21 PM » |
|
We are talking about the Skufia: A soft-sided cap and the Kamilavka: A stiff hat.
Why is the Kamilavka still worn if it's representative of muslim oppression? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.
"You are philosophical innovators. As for me, I follow the Fathers." -Every heresiarch ever |
|
|
|
Monk Vasyl
|
|
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2011, 03:19:18 PM » |
|
We are talking about the Skufia: A soft-sided cap and the Kamilavka: A stiff hat.
Why is the Kamilavka still worn if it's representative of muslim oppression? In the Old Rite they never wore the kamilavka, the veil generally just laid on the head and the flaps could be tied under the chin and the veil pulled back like a hood when one's head should be bare. This link will show some of the monastic habit of the Old Rite: http://oldbeliever.blogspot.com/Scroll down to the final photo of a group of monks and they are wearing skufias. Don't be surprised by the "little capes" they are wearing. These are not like the old cassocks of Roman Catholic clergy. Actually the "cape" is an everyday version of the Mantíya. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
The unworthy hierodeacon, Vasyl
|
|
|
|
mike
|
|
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2011, 03:33:51 PM » |
|
Generally when given an award or blessing to wear headgear during liturgical services, it would be at every service. Tho, I know with the mitre some priests only wear it at Nativity and Pascha.
I know one who does not wear his mitre at all. I doubt he even bought one. |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: June 13, 2011, 03:34:01 PM by Michał Kalina »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Monk Vasyl
|
|
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2011, 03:45:39 PM » |
|
Generally when given an award or blessing to wear headgear during liturgical services, it would be at every service. Tho, I know with the mitre some priests only wear it at Nativity and Pascha.
I know one who does not wear his mitre at all. I doubt he even bought one. One priest said they were painful to wear. I guess his wasn't properly fitted. To me it would be like wearing a crown of thorns. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
The unworthy hierodeacon, Vasyl
|
|
|
mildert
Deacon Philip
Member
 Offline
Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Russian Orthodox Churches in Western Europe - Exarchate of the Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 113
|
|
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2011, 08:49:45 AM » |
|
Yes. The question is when they should wear them? All the time? On feasts? On Liturgies?...
Officially, I believe that the hats (skufia or kamilavka) should always be worn, however there may be pastoral reasons for not wearing them. In XC, Deacon Philip |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
In XC,
Deacon Philip
|
|
|
|
ilyazhito
|
|
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2011, 09:58:10 PM » |
|
I totally agree. why not use what you have\?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
username!
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
Offline
Faith: Ukrainian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Pennsylvaniadoxy
Posts: 5,027
|
|
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2011, 04:59:51 PM » |
|
It is rather ironic that the new Greek Catholic priest in our town is from Slovakia and he came with quite the collection of hats which surprised his own congregation as well as those of the neighboring Orthodox parishes!
Considering the rule of ACROD is "no clerical hats" (well, unless you are a monk or the bishop), no wonder it surprised everyone. Oh, wait, ACROD clergy can wear hats in cemetaries, I believe. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
username!
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
Offline
Faith: Ukrainian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Pennsylvaniadoxy
Posts: 5,027
|
|
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2011, 05:01:20 PM » |
|
I'm not much for telling people what to wear, in the scheme of things it doesn't matter if Father/Father Deacon is wearing a hat or not.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
podkarpatska
|
|
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2011, 09:19:25 AM » |
|
It is rather ironic that the new Greek Catholic priest in our town is from Slovakia and he came with quite the collection of hats which surprised his own congregation as well as those of the neighboring Orthodox parishes!
Considering the rule of ACROD is "no clerical hats" (well, unless you are a monk or the bishop), no wonder it surprised everyone. Oh, wait, ACROD clergy can wear hats in cemetaries, I believe. It's not the 'rule', just tradition carried over from the old days..and you notice that I said neighboring 'parishes'...not just my own! And here is the Chancellor of ACROD with a hat, and yes at the cemetary....  [/ img] |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
orthonorm
|
|
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2011, 09:33:23 AM » |
|
We are talking about the Skufia: A soft-sided cap and the Kamilavka: A stiff hat.
Why is the Kamilavka still worn if it's representative of muslim oppression? Because many have no idea what they are about and from whence they came. I have lulz at people scandalized by OC Priests wearing a Roman collar. One Ukrainian told me it meant the Priest didn't have children. Another, Russian I believe, thought it meant they converted from RC. Never mind the fact that the rules governing the wear of clergy on the street in some jurisdictions suggest "normative" wear of a typical American clergy member. Since those rules were established when many clergy even outside the RC wore the "Roman collar", the OC Priests followed suit under the obedience of their Bishop. Get into a discussion sometime about vestments, "headgear", and "street wear" for an OC Priest sometime with Fr. Thomas Hopko, he has some rather strong, well educated opinions informed by history and little "t"s. In person, that subject and the treatment of icons are what I have seen him most passionate about on a conversational level. His take on icons gave me great pause, since many of his criticisms made a lot of sense and fit unfortunately the treatment of icons at my parish at times. He made a podcast recently about it, something like "Iconodules are the new Iconclasts". |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 09:34:08 AM by orthonorm »
|
Logged
|
Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
|
|
|
|
