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Poll
Question: When will our two Churches reunite (if you select "other," please explain in a post)?
Within the next 10 to 20 years
Pshh! Not within my lifetime!
When the Pope becomes Orthodox
When the East stops being schismatic
NEVER
Other

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« Reply #135 on: June 16, 2011, 11:26:46 AM »

You know what, after years of considering this matter, I think that we Catholics really need to clean house before we can seriously provide something to which Eastern Orthodox Christians would want to be reunited.
1. The Liturgy must be reformed! -We are on our way, but have a long way to go.

2. We need to deal with the abuse crisis. -This must involve great openness on the part of Church hierarchic and prosecusion of the offending parties.

3. We must reform our fasting practices. -I think what has been happening in the U.K. is fantastic, but again, we all have a long way to go.

4. Theological liberals need to go. - Yup, get rid of the dissenting heretics in some seminaries and in the priesthood. I think His Holiness is working towards this but it is a slow process.

Once these issues are addressed, then we can commence with beating eachother over the head over issues like the Papacy, the Filioque, Purgatory, and the like.
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« Reply #136 on: June 16, 2011, 11:31:01 AM »

You know what, after years of considering this matter, I think that we Catholics really need to clean house before we can seriously provide something to which Eastern Orthodox Christians would want to be reunited.
1. The Liturgy must be reformed! -We are on our way, but have a long way to go.

2. We need to deal with the abuse crisis. -This must involve great openness on the part of Church hierarchic and prosecusion of the offending parties.

3. We must reform our fasting practices. -I think what has been happening in the U.K. is fantastic, but again, we all have a long way to go.

4. Theological liberals need to go. - Yup, get rid of the dissenting heretics in some seminaries and in the priesthood. I think His Holiness is working towards this but it is a slow process.

Once these issues are addressed, then we can commence with beating eachother over the head over issues like the Papacy, the Filioque, Purgatory, and the like.

Can I get you an invite to the Consultations? The Orthodox will welcome your point of view!
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Papist
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« Reply #137 on: June 16, 2011, 11:39:20 AM »

You know what, after years of considering this matter, I think that we Catholics really need to clean house before we can seriously provide something to which Eastern Orthodox Christians would want to be reunited.
1. The Liturgy must be reformed! -We are on our way, but have a long way to go.

2. We need to deal with the abuse crisis. -This must involve great openness on the part of Church hierarchic and prosecusion of the offending parties.

3. We must reform our fasting practices. -I think what has been happening in the U.K. is fantastic, but again, we all have a long way to go.

4. Theological liberals need to go. - Yup, get rid of the dissenting heretics in some seminaries and in the priesthood. I think His Holiness is working towards this but it is a slow process.

Once these issues are addressed, then we can commence with beating eachother over the head over issues like the Papacy, the Filioque, Purgatory, and the like.

Can I get you an invite to the Consultations? The Orthodox will welcome your point of view!
Of coure. Smiley
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elijahmaria
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« Reply #138 on: June 16, 2011, 11:48:38 AM »

You know what, after years of considering this matter, I think that we Catholics really need to clean house before we can seriously provide something to which Eastern Orthodox Christians would want to be reunited.
1. The Liturgy must be reformed! -We are on our way, but have a long way to go.

2. We need to deal with the abuse crisis. -This must involve great openness on the part of Church hierarchic and prosecusion of the offending parties.

3. We must reform our fasting practices. -I think what has been happening in the U.K. is fantastic, but again, we all have a long way to go.

4. Theological liberals need to go. - Yup, get rid of the dissenting heretics in some seminaries and in the priesthood. I think His Holiness is working towards this but it is a slow process.

Once these issues are addressed, then we can commence with beating eachother over the head over issues like the Papacy, the Filioque, Purgatory, and the like.

Can I get you an invite to the Consultations? The Orthodox will welcome your point of view!

You would not want me!!  I say that these things are all good and necessary but that communion transcends human weakness!!
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« Reply #139 on: June 16, 2011, 12:11:39 PM »

You know what, after years of considering this matter, I think that we Catholics really need to clean house before we can seriously provide something to which Eastern Orthodox Christians would want to be reunited.
1. The Liturgy must be reformed! -We are on our way, but have a long way to go.

2. We need to deal with the abuse crisis. -This must involve great openness on the part of Church hierarchic and prosecusion of the offending parties.

3. We must reform our fasting practices. -I think what has been happening in the U.K. is fantastic, but again, we all have a long way to go.

4. Theological liberals need to go. - Yup, get rid of the dissenting heretics in some seminaries and in the priesthood. I think His Holiness is working towards this but it is a slow process.

Once these issues are addressed, then we can commence with beating eachother over the head over issues like the Papacy, the Filioque, Purgatory, and the like.

Can I get you an invite to the Consultations? The Orthodox will welcome your point of view!

You would not want me!!  I say that these things are all good and necessary but that communion transcends human weakness!!
There is something to that Maria, but when the boots hit the ground, I don't think that EOs will even want to address communion until we start acting like the Church we claim to be.
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Peter J
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« Reply #140 on: June 16, 2011, 12:28:36 PM »

You know what, after years of considering this matter, I think that we Catholics really need to clean house before we can seriously provide something to which Eastern Orthodox Christians would want to be reunited.
1. The Liturgy must be reformed! -We are on our way, but have a long way to go.

2. We need to deal with the abuse crisis. -This must involve great openness on the part of Church hierarchic and prosecusion of the offending parties.

3. We must reform our fasting practices. -I think what has been happening in the U.K. is fantastic, but again, we all have a long way to go.

4. Theological liberals need to go. - Yup, get rid of the dissenting heretics in some seminaries and in the priesthood. I think His Holiness is working towards this but it is a slow process.

Once these issues are addressed, then we can commence with beating eachother over the head over issues like the Papacy, the Filioque, Purgatory, and the like.

Can I get you an invite to the Consultations? The Orthodox will welcome your point of view!

It's always gratifying when traditional Catholic are welcome at the ecumenical table.  Smiley

Just yesterday I was reading an "oldie but a goodie", namely the thread increase of latin language in western rite will increase orthodox praxis. A lot of excellent statements there, but this caught my attention especially:

Additionally, with greater knowledge and usage of latin there would be a greater respect from some of those within the west who would be most sympathetic toward collaborating in some fashion with the Orthodox Church. Traditional latin/roman rite catholics.
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« Reply #141 on: June 16, 2011, 12:34:14 PM »

You know what, after years of considering this matter, I think that we Catholics really need to clean house before we can seriously provide something to which Eastern Orthodox Christians would want to be reunited.
1. The Liturgy must be reformed! -We are on our way, but have a long way to go.

2. We need to deal with the abuse crisis. -This must involve great openness on the part of Church hierarchic and prosecusion of the offending parties.

3. We must reform our fasting practices. -I think what has been happening in the U.K. is fantastic, but again, we all have a long way to go.

4. Theological liberals need to go. - Yup, get rid of the dissenting heretics in some seminaries and in the priesthood. I think His Holiness is working towards this but it is a slow process.

Once these issues are addressed, then we can commence with beating eachother over the head over issues like the Papacy, the Filioque, Purgatory, and the like.

Can I get you an invite to the Consultations? The Orthodox will welcome your point of view!

You would not want me!!  I say that these things are all good and necessary but that communion transcends human weakness!!
There is something to that Maria, but when the boots hit the ground, I don't think that EOs will even want to address communion until we start acting like the Church we claim to be.

That makes sense, but let's not forget the Anglican parishes that have come into communion with Rome recently. After all, they could have opted for communion with Constantinople instead, and yet they chose Rome.
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« Reply #142 on: June 16, 2011, 12:50:42 PM »

You know what, after years of considering this matter, I think that we Catholics really need to clean house before we can seriously provide something to which Eastern Orthodox Christians would want to be reunited.
1. The Liturgy must be reformed! -We are on our way, but have a long way to go.

2. We need to deal with the abuse crisis. -This must involve great openness on the part of Church hierarchic and prosecusion of the offending parties.

3. We must reform our fasting practices. -I think what has been happening in the U.K. is fantastic, but again, we all have a long way to go.

4. Theological liberals need to go. - Yup, get rid of the dissenting heretics in some seminaries and in the priesthood. I think His Holiness is working towards this but it is a slow process.

Once these issues are addressed, then we can commence with beating eachother over the head over issues like the Papacy, the Filioque, Purgatory, and the like.

Can I get you an invite to the Consultations? The Orthodox will welcome your point of view!

It's always gratifying when traditional Catholic are welcome at the ecumenical table.  Smiley

Just yesterday I was reading an "oldie but a goodie", namely the thread increase of latin language in western rite will increase orthodox praxis. A lot of excellent statements there, but this caught my attention especially:

Additionally, with greater knowledge and usage of latin there would be a greater respect from some of those within the west who would be most sympathetic toward collaborating in some fashion with the Orthodox Church. Traditional latin/roman rite catholics.

I think that 'traditional Catholics' are the only ones welcomed by us! The problem lies, of course, in one's definition of 'traditional'! No room for the 'dancing bear' types.
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« Reply #143 on: June 16, 2011, 01:39:19 PM »

The Spirit is descended!
You know what, after years of considering this matter, I think that we Catholics really need to clean house before we can seriously provide something to which Eastern Orthodox Christians would want to be reunited.
1. The Liturgy must be reformed! -We are on our way, but have a long way to go.

2. We need to deal with the abuse crisis. -This must involve great openness on the part of Church hierarchic and prosecusion of the offending parties.

3. We must reform our fasting practices. -I think what has been happening in the U.K. is fantastic, but again, we all have a long way to go.

4. Theological liberals need to go. - Yup, get rid of the dissenting heretics in some seminaries and in the priesthood. I think His Holiness is working towards this but it is a slow process.

Once these issues are addressed, then we can commence with beating eachother over the head over issues like the Papacy, the Filioque, Purgatory, and the like.

Can I get you an invite to the Consultations? The Orthodox will welcome your point of view!

You would not want me!!  I say that these things are all good and necessary but that communion transcends human weakness!!
There is something to that Maria, but when the boots hit the ground, I don't think that EOs will even want to address communion until we start acting like the Church we claim to be.
Agreement.  Spooky.
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if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #144 on: June 16, 2011, 06:05:39 PM »

That makes sense, but let's not forget the Anglican parishes that have come into communion with Rome recently. After all, they could have opted for communion with Constantinople instead, and yet they chose Rome.

I was searching for the number of parishes in the Anglican Ordinariate

and was surprised to find there are zero!

This is because the Ordinariate does not even exist.

It is proposed to create it in the fall.

http://catholicknight.blogspot.com/2011/06/us-anglican-ordinariate-emerges.html
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elijahmaria
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« Reply #145 on: June 16, 2011, 06:25:42 PM »

You know what, after years of considering this matter, I think that we Catholics really need to clean house before we can seriously provide something to which Eastern Orthodox Christians would want to be reunited.
1. The Liturgy must be reformed! -We are on our way, but have a long way to go.

2. We need to deal with the abuse crisis. -This must involve great openness on the part of Church hierarchic and prosecusion of the offending parties.

3. We must reform our fasting practices. -I think what has been happening in the U.K. is fantastic, but again, we all have a long way to go.

4. Theological liberals need to go. - Yup, get rid of the dissenting heretics in some seminaries and in the priesthood. I think His Holiness is working towards this but it is a slow process.

Once these issues are addressed, then we can commence with beating eachother over the head over issues like the Papacy, the Filioque, Purgatory, and the like.

Can I get you an invite to the Consultations? The Orthodox will welcome your point of view!

You would not want me!!  I say that these things are all good and necessary but that communion transcends human weakness!!
There is something to that Maria, but when the boots hit the ground, I don't think that EOs will even want to address communion until we start acting like the Church we claim to be.

That's a bit of a kick in the slats for those Catholics who do indeed live the faith and have done so for generations, even at great personal expense.

There are many more of us quietly faithful than there are the faithless ones.

So if we are ALL waiting for that glorious Age of All Goodness...hell will freeze over first.... so we need to get on with looking for the good in the Catholic Church and let the schismatics paddle their own Swamp Cat.

M.
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elijahmaria
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« Reply #146 on: June 16, 2011, 06:28:05 PM »

That makes sense, but let's not forget the Anglican parishes that have come into communion with Rome recently. After all, they could have opted for communion with Constantinople instead, and yet they chose Rome.

I was searching for the number of parishes in the Anglican Ordinariate

and was surprised to find there are zero!

This is because the Ordinariate does not even exist.

It is proposed to create it in the fall.

http://catholicknight.blogspot.com/2011/06/us-anglican-ordinariate-emerges.html

What in goodness name are you talking about?
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« Reply #147 on: June 16, 2011, 06:51:36 PM »

That makes sense, but let's not forget the Anglican parishes that have come into communion with Rome recently. After all, they could have opted for communion with Constantinople instead, and yet they chose Rome.

I was searching for the number of parishes in the Anglican Ordinariate

and was surprised to find there are zero!

This is because the Ordinariate does not even exist.

It is proposed to create it in the fall.

http://catholicknight.blogspot.com/2011/06/us-anglican-ordinariate-emerges.html

What in goodness name are you talking about?

I am trying to find out how many Anglican parishes have entered the Roman Catholic Church.

In this country with 552 Anglican parishes not one of them has made the move.
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« Reply #148 on: June 16, 2011, 07:20:27 PM »

You know what, after years of considering this matter, I think that we Catholics really need to clean house before we can seriously provide something to which Eastern Orthodox Christians would want to be reunited.
1. The Liturgy must be reformed! -We are on our way, but have a long way to go.

2. We need to deal with the abuse crisis. -This must involve great openness on the part of Church hierarchic and prosecusion of the offending parties.

3. We must reform our fasting practices. -I think what has been happening in the U.K. is fantastic, but again, we all have a long way to go.

4. Theological liberals need to go. - Yup, get rid of the dissenting heretics in some seminaries and in the priesthood. I think His Holiness is working towards this but it is a slow process.

Once these issues are addressed, then we can commence with beating eachother over the head over issues like the Papacy, the Filioque, Purgatory, and the like.

Can I get you an invite to the Consultations? The Orthodox will welcome your point of view!

You would not want me!!  I say that these things are all good and necessary but that communion transcends human weakness!!
There is something to that Maria, but when the boots hit the ground, I don't think that EOs will even want to address communion until we start acting like the Church we claim to be.

That's a bit of a kick in the slats for those Catholics who do indeed live the faith and have done so for generations, even at great personal expense.

There are many more of us quietly faithful than there are the faithless ones.

So if we are ALL waiting for that glorious Age of All Goodness...hell will freeze over first.... so we need to get on with looking for the good in the Catholic Church and let the schismatics paddle their own Swamp Cat.

M.
Oh good, now we're schismatics. Two days ago we weren't even Christian's! Ecumenism at work, already you're more accepting of us!
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elijahmaria
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« Reply #149 on: June 16, 2011, 09:28:07 PM »

You know what, after years of considering this matter, I think that we Catholics really need to clean house before we can seriously provide something to which Eastern Orthodox Christians would want to be reunited.
1. The Liturgy must be reformed! -We are on our way, but have a long way to go.

2. We need to deal with the abuse crisis. -This must involve great openness on the part of Church hierarchic and prosecusion of the offending parties.

3. We must reform our fasting practices. -I think what has been happening in the U.K. is fantastic, but again, we all have a long way to go.

4. Theological liberals need to go. - Yup, get rid of the dissenting heretics in some seminaries and in the priesthood. I think His Holiness is working towards this but it is a slow process.

Once these issues are addressed, then we can commence with beating eachother over the head over issues like the Papacy, the Filioque, Purgatory, and the like.

Can I get you an invite to the Consultations? The Orthodox will welcome your point of view!

You would not want me!!  I say that these things are all good and necessary but that communion transcends human weakness!!
There is something to that Maria, but when the boots hit the ground, I don't think that EOs will even want to address communion until we start acting like the Church we claim to be.

That's a bit of a kick in the slats for those Catholics who do indeed live the faith and have done so for generations, even at great personal expense.

There are many more of us quietly faithful than there are the faithless ones.

So if we are ALL waiting for that glorious Age of All Goodness...hell will freeze over first.... so we need to get on with looking for the good in the Catholic Church and let the schismatics paddle their own Swamp Cat.

M.
Oh good, now we're schismatics. Two days ago we weren't even Christian's! Ecumenism at work, already you're more accepting of us!

O for pity's sake...don't be dents. 

We were talking about faithless Catholics, not faithless Orthodox Catholics!!...There's a de facto schism in the Catholic Church-not the Orthodox Catholics...though there are some there too.  I was speaking of the former and not the latter.

M.
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« Reply #150 on: June 16, 2011, 09:43:45 PM »

Oh good, now we're schismatics. Two days ago we weren't even Christian's! Ecumenism at work, already you're more accepting of us!

Who is Christian, and why aren't you his?

Seriously though, who said you weren't Christians?
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« Reply #151 on: June 16, 2011, 09:47:29 PM »

That makes sense, but let's not forget the Anglican parishes that have come into communion with Rome recently. After all, they could have opted for communion with Constantinople instead, and yet they chose Rome.

I was searching for the number of parishes in the Anglican Ordinariate

and was surprised to find there are zero!

This is because the Ordinariate does not even exist.

It is proposed to create it in the fall.

http://catholicknight.blogspot.com/2011/06/us-anglican-ordinariate-emerges.html

You're right, I should have said "who are coming into communion with Rome".

But bottom line, they chose Catholicism over Orthodoxy.
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« Reply #152 on: June 16, 2011, 09:54:59 PM »

You know what, after years of considering this matter, I think that we Catholics really need to clean house before we can seriously provide something to which Eastern Orthodox Christians would want to be reunited.
1. The Liturgy must be reformed! -We are on our way, but have a long way to go.

2. We need to deal with the abuse crisis. -This must involve great openness on the part of Church hierarchic and prosecusion of the offending parties.

3. We must reform our fasting practices. -I think what has been happening in the U.K. is fantastic, but again, we all have a long way to go.

4. Theological liberals need to go. - Yup, get rid of the dissenting heretics in some seminaries and in the priesthood. I think His Holiness is working towards this but it is a slow process.

Once these issues are addressed, then we can commence with beating eachother over the head over issues like the Papacy, the Filioque, Purgatory, and the like.

Can I get you an invite to the Consultations? The Orthodox will welcome your point of view!

You would not want me!!  I say that these things are all good and necessary but that communion transcends human weakness!!
There is something to that Maria, but when the boots hit the ground, I don't think that EOs will even want to address communion until we start acting like the Church we claim to be.

That's a bit of a kick in the slats for those Catholics who do indeed live the faith and have done so for generations, even at great personal expense.

There are many more of us quietly faithful than there are the faithless ones.

So if we are ALL waiting for that glorious Age of All Goodness...hell will freeze over first.... so we need to get on with looking for the good in the Catholic Church and let the schismatics paddle their own Swamp Cat.

M.
I agree. There are many good Catholics out there in the world.
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« Reply #153 on: June 16, 2011, 10:17:56 PM »

The Spirit is descended!
You know what, after years of considering this matter, I think that we Catholics really need to clean house before we can seriously provide something to which Eastern Orthodox Christians would want to be reunited.
1. The Liturgy must be reformed! -We are on our way, but have a long way to go.

2. We need to deal with the abuse crisis. -This must involve great openness on the part of Church hierarchic and prosecusion of the offending parties.

3. We must reform our fasting practices. -I think what has been happening in the U.K. is fantastic, but again, we all have a long way to go.

4. Theological liberals need to go. - Yup, get rid of the dissenting heretics in some seminaries and in the priesthood. I think His Holiness is working towards this but it is a slow process.

Once these issues are addressed, then we can commence with beating eachother over the head over issues like the Papacy, the Filioque, Purgatory, and the like.

Can I get you an invite to the Consultations? The Orthodox will welcome your point of view!

You would not want me!!  I say that these things are all good and necessary but that communion transcends human weakness!!
There is something to that Maria, but when the boots hit the ground, I don't think that EOs will even want to address communion until we start acting like the Church we claim to be.
Agreement.  Spooky.
At this point I am looking around expect Christ to have returned. ialmisry and Papist agreed on something.

I agree too. I have an Orthodox acquaintance from England (Bosporus Swim Class 2011) I recently just expressed similar sentiments when he, horrified, had posted a link on his wall of the "ordination" of RC Womenpriests. I explained to him that they were not Catholic, but that they and those like them had sympathetic factions within our church.

Orthodox and Catholics have a long way to go in the ground war. We've already proven, twice (Lyons and Florence) that top down restorations of communion don't work. We also proved with the Roman and Maronites churches reunion with portions of the Greek and various Miaphysite and Assyrian churches that it doesn't work.

The desire for reunion must come, not from the Pope and Ecumenical Patriarch or the Pope of Alexandria meeting, or even of bishops, but of an outpouring of love and humility and servitude from each Christian to another.

Sadly, in the West, our liturgy has become so deformed as to make it hardly recognizable to our Apostolic Brethren. It is getting better, but reunion cannot and should not happen until the Roman church gets its liturgy in order. Praxis in the local parish needs to change. There are many good things about Roman parishes - these can stay the same. But in some cases, the Orthodox outdo us. It doesn't mean we think you're right (see "The Way of a Pilgrim" when he talks about Old Believers - sometimes, I feel this way about you Orthodox - but not that harshly), but we acknowledge that we must change. Look at how badly the dismal change in the Roman Liturgy has trickled down to the Eastern churches - it's not been good. some Maronite parishes offer Qurbana facing the people. The use of liturgical languages has dropped off dramatically. The Ruthenian Pew Book got a major overhaul that was not the best.

But yes, liturgy and fasting and theological liberals. Liturgy is on the rise, theological liberals on the way out. We're getting better on the abuse crisis, but this needs to go. It needs to be out of the news - not because it's not being reported, but because there needs to be nothing to report. Pray for us sinners, brethren!

Fasting, we are way behind. I follow Greek fasting rules during Lent and Advent. It's been greatly beneficial to my spiritual life (plus I lost 20 pounds last Lent - my Greek Orthodox friend, also a convert - but swam the Bosporus - gains weight because he eats too much bread. Stupid carbs! I guess I'm too picky. :p )

But I've had other Catholic friends start fasting more. The thing is, the only way mandatory fasting will come back (and it would be beneficial for me) is if people start doing the fasting anyway without it being mandatory. If we removed the ability to substitute a different Friday penance (let's face it, who does anyway? Most good Catholics I know just abstain from meat anyway - and even many of the good Catholics I know are unaware of mandatory Friday penance).

Things will get better. But until they do, you have no business with us. But let's keep talking. As much as some of us love the "traditions" of First Communion and Confirmation, I wish we would just give them to infants. We're not Protestants who delay the receipt of grace until the one receiving can understand.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 10:20:05 PM by WetCatechumen » Logged

"And because they have nothing better to do, they take cushion and chairs to Rome. And while the Pope is saying liturgy, they go, 'Oh, oh, oh, filioque!' And the Pope say, 'Filioque? That-uh sound nice! I think I divide-uh the Church over it!'" - Comrade Real Presence
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« Reply #154 on: June 16, 2011, 10:21:58 PM »

That makes sense, but let's not forget the Anglican parishes that have come into communion with Rome recently. After all, they could have opted for communion with Constantinople instead, and yet they chose Rome.

I was searching for the number of parishes in the Anglican Ordinariate

and was surprised to find there are zero!

This is because the Ordinariate does not even exist.

It is proposed to create it in the fall.

http://catholicknight.blogspot.com/2011/06/us-anglican-ordinariate-emerges.html

You're right, I should have said "who are coming into communion with Rome".

But bottom line, they chose Catholicism over Orthodoxy.

Will this Ordinariate really appear?

How many parishes?
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« Reply #155 on: June 16, 2011, 10:35:36 PM »



Things will get better. But until they do, you have no business with us. But let's keep talking. As much as some of us love the "traditions" of First Communion and Confirmation, I wish we would just give them to infants. We're not Protestants who delay the receipt of grace until the one receiving can understand.
Agreed. I think a return to the old practice of confirming and communing infants would be a very healthy move in the right direction.
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« Reply #156 on: June 16, 2011, 10:40:26 PM »



Things will get better. But until they do, you have no business with us. But let's keep talking. As much as some of us love the "traditions" of First Communion and Confirmation, I wish we would just give them to infants. We're not Protestants who delay the receipt of grace until the one receiving can understand.
Agreed. I think a return to the old practice of confirming and communing infants would be a very healthy move in the right direction.

Said it before, but I wasn't a practicing anything when I went to my first DL and the communing of infants and the very young somehow had an impact on me that nothing during the Liturgy did.

Would be nice if the RCs I know could experience that beauty as well.
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