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Author Topic: Fear of God  (Read 2779 times) Average Rating: 0
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Poppy
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« Reply #45 on: June 10, 2011, 10:44:54 AM »

I feel bad so i am finding a whole bunch of quotes and other info for you that is from your own faith. The third one down is rli good!!

"Fear of God is of two kinds. The first is generated in us by the threat of punishment. It is through such fear that we develop in due order self-control, patience, hope in God and dispassion; and it is from dispassion that love comes. The second kind of fear is linked with love and constantly produces reverence in the soul, so that it does not grow indifferent to God because of the intimate communion of its love. "The first kind of fear is expelled by perfect love when the soul has acquired this and is no longer afraid of punishment (cf. I John 4:18). The second kind, as we have already said, is always found united with perfect love. The first kind of fear is referred to in the following two verse: 'Out of fear of the Lord men shun evil' (Prov. 16:6), and 'Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom' (Ps. 111:10). The second kind is mentioned in the following verses: 'Fear of the Lord is pure, and endures forever' (Ps. 19:9. LXX), and 'Those who fear the Lord will not want for anything' (Ps. 34:10. LXX). St. Maximos the Confessor (First Century on Love nos. 81-82)
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Q: Pray that I might place a beginning to salvation.

A: The beginning is humility and the fear of God: “The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom” (Proverbs 1:7). And what is the beginning of wisdom, if it is not to remove oneself from everything hateful to God? And how does one remove oneself from this? Do nothing without questioning and counsel; likewise, say nothing unfitting, and at the same time acknowledge oneself to be senseless, unsalted, and degraded, and in general insignificant. “Saints Barsanuphius and John: Guidance Toward Spiritual Life,” trans. by Fr. Seraphim Rose, (Platina, California: St. Herman of Alaska Brotherhood, 1990)

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The Fathers tell us that a man gains possession of the fear of God by keeping the thought of death before his mind and remembering eternal punishment, by examining himself each evening about how he has passed the day and each morning about how he has passed the night; by never giving rein to his tongue and by keeping in close and continual touch with a man possessed of the fear of God, as his spiritual director. St. Dorotheos and Gaza, Discourses & Sayings

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Poppy
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« Reply #46 on: June 10, 2011, 10:45:50 AM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI363U3uPN0

Thats a video Elder Cleopa speaking on the fear of God

his point is "death" lolOl he shouts it ALLOT!!!
« Last Edit: June 10, 2011, 10:48:15 AM by Poppy » Logged
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« Reply #47 on: June 10, 2011, 11:45:55 AM »

hah thanks...
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« Reply #48 on: June 10, 2011, 01:42:45 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Fear is a primal relationship with God, but Christianity seeks to expand beyond this instinct.

Under the Law, we had good reason to FEAR God. However, through Jesus Christ, there is literally nothing to be afraid of.  God seeks a relationship built upon trust, love, and understanding.  In all honesty, there is simply no room for fear in love.  Fear is a primal human instinct, it is the basis for anger, grief, sadness, hostility, wrath, depression, etc etc

Do any of those sound like healthy expressions of worship?  Fear is the very opposite of Faith.  When humans are afraid, they have no faith.  They are afraid of the unknown.  True, the Divine Godhead was previously unknowable, and hence the natural fear of God in humans,  however Jesus Christ is a PERSON, and God is accessible now through the Incarnation.  We no longer have to fear God, because instead we can know and love God.  We only fear what we do not know.  If we fear God we don't know Him, and that is something fearful indeed.

You already mentioned what is needed, prayer.  Pray to God to develop His relationship with you, that you might no longer think anything of fear at all.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: June 10, 2011, 01:43:49 PM by HabteSelassie » Logged

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« Reply #49 on: June 10, 2011, 02:56:37 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Fear is a primal relationship with God, but Christianity seeks to expand beyond this instinct.

Under the Law, we had good reason to FEAR God. However, through Jesus Christ, there is literally nothing to be afraid of.  God seeks a relationship built upon trust, love, and understanding.  In all honesty, there is simply no room for fear in love.  Fear is a primal human instinct, it is the basis for anger, grief, sadness, hostility, wrath, depression, etc etc

Do any of those sound like healthy expressions of worship?  Fear is the very opposite of Faith.  When humans are afraid, they have no faith.  They are afraid of the unknown.  True, the Divine Godhead was previously unknowable, and hence the natural fear of God in humans,  however Jesus Christ is a PERSON, and God is accessible now through the Incarnation.  We no longer have to fear God, because instead we can know and love God.  We only fear what we do not know.  If we fear God we don't know Him, and that is something fearful indeed.

You already mentioned what is needed, prayer.  Pray to God to develop His relationship with you, that you might no longer think anything of fear at all.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
that sounds extremely evangelical lol (no offense). Thank you for your input however i see fear being just as necessary now as under the old covenant and it has its place in context of love. not to mention you just professed that the words of God are no longer applicable and if God is unchanging then i see how that can apply. I believe the fear of God is that of the HEALTHY fear of a father. as a child you would not dare slap your mother, why? for fear of your father. its not that you dont love him nor  he love you but you intentionally violated him. it is fear that will prevent you from going against him love will draw you near to him and fear will help keep you there... as the proverbs say a man who fears God despises sin...
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« Reply #50 on: June 10, 2011, 03:03:38 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Fear is a primal relationship with God, but Christianity seeks to expand beyond this instinct.

Under the Law, we had good reason to FEAR God. However, through Jesus Christ, there is literally nothing to be afraid of.  God seeks a relationship built upon trust, love, and understanding.  In all honesty, there is simply no room for fear in love.  Fear is a primal human instinct, it is the basis for anger, grief, sadness, hostility, wrath, depression, etc etc

Do any of those sound like healthy expressions of worship?  Fear is the very opposite of Faith.  When humans are afraid, they have no faith.  They are afraid of the unknown.  True, the Divine Godhead was previously unknowable, and hence the natural fear of God in humans,  however Jesus Christ is a PERSON, and God is accessible now through the Incarnation.  We no longer have to fear God, because instead we can know and love God.  We only fear what we do not know.  If we fear God we don't know Him, and that is something fearful indeed.

You already mentioned what is needed, prayer.  Pray to God to develop His relationship with you, that you might no longer think anything of fear at all.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
that sounds extremely evangelical lol (no offense). Thank you for your input however i see fear being just as necessary now as under the old covenant and it has its place in context of love. not to mention you just professed that the words of God are no longer applicable and if God is unchanging then i see how that can apply. I believe the fear of God is that of the HEALTHY fear of a father. as a child you would not dare slap your mother, why? for fear of your father. its not that you dont love him nor  he love you but you intentionally violated him. it is fear that will prevent you from going against him love will draw you near to him and fear will help keep you there... as the proverbs say a man who fears God despises sin...

In the Orthodox we do not venerate the Old Testament as Gospel, that is to say,we are under no obligations to follow the commandments there word for word, this the Fathers have taught us over the thousands of years of our Faith.  You shouldn't fear your earthly fathers either, fear is not love.  Fear is compulsive, it is retribution oriented, its tit-for-tat, essentially it is the Law.  But we know that we cannot be saved by the Law, nor by any of our own efforts, including fear.  Only a deep LOVE from our hearts can bring us to God, and then we must allow Him to do the rest. You can not honestly love what you fear, fear only builds inevitable resentment and eventual rebellion, its an instinctive human reaction to fear.  It is because of fear that Adam and Eve were evicted from the Garden, but its because of the Love of Christ that we are invited back through the Holy Communion.  Again, pray about the matter, I can't explain something as mystical as love, its beyond description of words, rather is a literal matter of the heart.

read this book to see what I am talking about, but love is the only Orthodoxy, and fear is for animals.  


"No longer do I term you slaves, but friends."  Jesus Christ

Stay Blessed,
Habte Selassie
« Last Edit: June 10, 2011, 03:05:43 PM by HabteSelassie » Logged

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« Reply #51 on: June 10, 2011, 03:17:04 PM »

okaay then NT verses...

1Pe 2:17* Honor all men; love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king.
Mt 10:28* "And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Lu 12:5* But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
Ac 9:31* Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.
2Co 5:11* Therefore knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade men, but we are made manifest to God; and I hope that we are made manifest also in your consciences.
Eph 5:21* Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
Eph 6:5* Servants, be obedient to them that are [your] masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
Php 2:12* Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Col 3:22* Servants, obey in all things [your] masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:
Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left [us] of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
1Pe 1:17* And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning [here] in fear:
2Co 7:1* Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

I dare not say you are wrong but if Fear of God is not orthodox how do you explain the apostles command to fear the lord?

*edit* i also see you are Ethiopian Orthodox and i have not studied thier Liturgy however in Greek and i think Coptic the Priest says "With the fear of God, faith and love draw near."
« Last Edit: June 10, 2011, 03:29:54 PM by Seafra » Logged
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« Reply #52 on: June 10, 2011, 04:23:16 PM »

Again I bring both of your attention to the quotations from St. Anthony above.

It is paradoxical.

Often nothing is more fearful than being loved.

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« Reply #53 on: January 20, 2012, 03:38:36 AM »

Le bump


What are you afraid of when you have fear of the Lord?
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« Reply #54 on: January 20, 2012, 05:29:21 AM »

my understanding (from protestant POV) is it s as a fear a child has of their father, not one of a terror fear but one of part respect part "i dont want to get on His bad side"Wink The thought that comes to mind to me is one who has the fear of the lord is actually drawn away from sin motivated by the fear of God...
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« Reply #55 on: January 20, 2012, 12:16:40 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

יָרֵא  Yare in Hebrew:



The Old Testament concept of the Fear of God is in the connotation of standing in awe, or being moved by reverence.  It can be interpreted as a primal fear as this Hebrew word is also used this way in the Scriptures, but in the context of the references to the fear of God, it seem to imply reverence rather than simply fear.

This concept is even more elaborated in the New Testament Greek

φόβος phobeo


While phobia is a term we are familiar with, the emphasis by the New Testament writers is the having been put to flight by fear and awe, which is what the fear of God is meant to do.  It is not so much that it stops or paralyzes us with fear as in primal or instinctive fear, rather this fear is what pushes us to action.  The emphasis then is not so much on the fear as the active, internal response.

The Father seem to emphasize the reverence aspect of fear rather then simply the terrifying aspect.

When we take "fear" in its the context of the entirety of the Scriptures, we better understand the meaning, and since we hear "Fear not" as often as "be afraid" then I think we can see the balance.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #56 on: January 20, 2012, 09:27:05 PM »

A "Fear of God" just strikes me as counter the main Orthodox selling pitch (relationship of love; sin is broken relationship not legalistic). To be motivated by fear doesn't follow that line as much as fear of not following a Divine Law with a supreme judge.
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« Reply #57 on: January 20, 2012, 09:36:12 PM »

how about this, a child who loves his father would not dare strike his mother for fear of his father. that same child would essentially have no fear striking some random lady with whom there is no relation.

I know its not the best example but the dynamics are true. fear does not have to conflict with love, and i agree as you mature in God love and zeal will overpower your fear, but as the scriptures say fear is the beginning of wisdom. one who is mature in the Lord may not have the same sense of fear as someone not so mature, it may develop eventually into a reverence as most interpret today, however i will remind the wisdom of the Desert Fathers and their insistence of "keeping death before your eyes" in a constant fear of judgement they worked through their sin.
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