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Author Topic: No good way to ask this & trying not to sound blasphemic...  (Read 1464 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: June 07, 2011, 07:31:30 PM »

Do you think that the human nature of Jesus was ever attracted (without lust) to women?

I can't speak for women, but guys... You know.... somewhere between 13ish - ? there is a pretty strong attraction towards women.   I'm sure many of us experienced lust, but attraction as well.

I'm asking because of the human nature of Jesus.  How can a man "really" be a man that was never attracted to women?

Of course his divine nature could have swallowed up that human attribute, but between 13-25 especially, heh, you guys know, that IS pretty much your human attribute...  (of course I'm joking, but it is VERY strong...)

I'm wondering if he just ignored these things.... or....?

Is there any writings by church fathers, theologians, etc. on this subject?    Especially dealing with the HUMAN nature of Christ.  As a man I just can't come to grips with this.

Thanks
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« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2011, 07:36:31 PM »

"For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin." St. Paul, Epistle to the Hebrews (4:15, NKJV)
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« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2011, 07:50:16 PM »

Of course his divine nature could have swallowed up that human attribute, but between 13-25 especially, heh, you guys know, that IS pretty much your human attribute...  (of course I'm joking, but it is VERY strong...)
Yeah, but you answered that question. Even though it seems impossible for us to overcome the sins and not give into temptation, HE HAD DIVINE NATURE. He was able to do what we couldn't do on our own.
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« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2011, 08:02:54 PM »

Of course his divine nature could have swallowed up that human attribute
That's actually the heresy of Eutychianism. No part of Christ's divine nature destroyed/swallowed up/made void his humanity.

I think Fr. Hopko mentioned that Jesus would have, at some point, been tempted by a woman the same way that all men are. If He was tempted with power, temporal bread, and selfish self-preservation (temptations in the desert), why not lust as well?
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« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2011, 08:04:58 PM »

Given that each of us struggles with different sins, is it enough that Christ experienced temptation or would he have had to experience every category of temptation in order to be fully human?

Serious question.
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« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2011, 08:08:24 PM »

Given that each of us struggles with different sins, is it enough that Christ experienced temptation or would he have had to experience every category of temptation in order to be fully human?

Serious question.
Well, he wasn't tempted with homosexual sex, black-on-black violence, or knocking over someone's television set in anger. And yet he was fully human. To be fully human means to have limitations upon your humanity; being born into a particular time, place and circumstance.

To both you and YeshuaisIAM, I recommend the following podcast that I enjoyed very much:

http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/namesofjesus/jesus_-_the_man
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« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2011, 08:11:46 PM »

Of course his divine nature could have swallowed up that human attribute
That's actually the heresy of Eutychianism. No part of Christ's divine nature destroyed/swallowed up/made void his humanity.

I think Fr. Hopko mentioned that Jesus would have, at some point, been tempted by a woman the same way that all men are. If He was tempted with power, temporal bread, and selfish self-preservation (temptations in the desert), why not lust as well?

Well if he looked lustfully, then he would have sinned of course.....

Of course, let me re-state... I'm not speaking of LUST or sin.
I'm speaking of "attraction".  

Do any of you believe (without sin) that Jesus Christ was attracted to women through his human nature?
For instance, if he passed an attractive lady in his day would have he thought "wow!" or got the flutters, or nervous around a lady that he may have "liked"?

There's just so little detail of his teens & twenties.  Perhaps I'm just more curious than anything.

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« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2011, 08:15:47 PM »

Do any of you believe (without sin) that Jesus Christ was attracted to women through his human nature?
For instance, if he passed an attractive lady in his day would have he thought "wow!" or got the flutters, or nervous around a lady that he may have "liked"?

There's just so little detail of his teens & twenties.  Perhaps I'm just more curious than anything.
I personally think he was.

Well if he looked lustfully, then he would have sinned of course.....
Yeah. I think "looking lustfully", in the Sermon on the Mount sense, involves choosing to respond to the temptation towards lust on some level. I was referring to the temptation to lust, but not actual lust.
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« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2011, 08:16:51 PM »

Given that each of us struggles with different sins, is it enough that Christ experienced temptation or would he have had to experience every category of temptation in order to be fully human?

Serious question.
Well, he wasn't tempted with homosexual sex, black-on-black violence, or knocking over someone's television set in anger. And yet he was fully human. To be fully human means to have limitations upon your humanity; being born into a particular time, place and circumstance.

To both you and YeshuaisIAM, I recommend the following podcast that I enjoyed very much:

http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/namesofjesus/jesus_-_the_man

This is the answer I hoped for -- and thank you for the podcast!
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« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2011, 08:20:08 PM »

He may have been attracted to a woman (or to several women over time) in a totally non-lustful way.  However, he also may have been asexual, and therefore attracted to no one, lustfully or otherwise.
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« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2011, 08:29:27 PM »

Do any of you believe (without sin) that Jesus Christ was attracted to women through his human nature?
For instance, if he passed an attractive lady in his day would have he thought "wow!" or got the flutters, or nervous around a lady that he may have "liked"?

There's just so little detail of his teens & twenties.  Perhaps I'm just more curious than anything.
I personally think he was.

Well if he looked lustfully, then he would have sinned of course.....
Yeah. I think "looking lustfully", in the Sermon on the Mount sense, involves choosing to respond to the temptation towards lust on some level. I was referring to the temptation to lust, but not actual lust.

Oh okay I understand what you are saying on lust - temptation vs. looking/doing.

Thanks for the podcast btw.

This is a very interesting subject (in curiosity) to me because it would be of great emphasis of the human nature.   Sometimes I try to consider that he probably laughed, told jokes, and played with doodle bugs when he was a kid etc.  Like we don't hear much about the Theotokos changing his diapers or cleaning up after he spilled his Spaghetti O's.  laugh   Arg, I wish there were more stories of him in the "common times" of being a carpenter etc.
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« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2011, 08:31:09 PM »

Christ is ascended!
Of course his divine nature could have swallowed up that human attribute
That's actually the heresy of Eutychianism. No part of Christ's divine nature destroyed/swallowed up/made void his humanity.

I think Fr. Hopko mentioned that Jesus would have, at some point, been tempted by a woman the same way that all men are. If He was tempted with power, temporal bread, and selfish self-preservation (temptations in the desert), why not lust as well?

Well if he looked lustfully, then he would have sinned of course.....

Of course, let me re-state... I'm not speaking of LUST or sin.
I'm speaking of "attraction".  

Do any of you believe (without sin) that Jesus Christ was attracted to women through his human nature?
For instance, if he passed an attractive lady in his day would have he thought "wow!" or got the flutters, or nervous around a lady that he may have "liked"?

There's just so little detail of his teens & twenties.  Perhaps I'm just more curious than anything.
you might ask yourself why you are so curious about this.  What difference would the details mean to you?
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« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2011, 09:34:30 PM »

This is a very interesting subject (in curiosity) to me because it would be of great emphasis of the human nature.   Sometimes I try to consider that he probably laughed, told jokes, and played with doodle bugs when he was a kid etc.  Like we don't hear much about the Theotokos changing his diapers or cleaning up after he spilled his Spaghetti O's.  laugh   Arg, I wish there were more stories of him in the "common times" of being a carpenter etc.

A lot of early Christians wondered the same thing, that's why there are so many apocryphal infancy narratives. One gnostic narrative, adopted by Islam, told of how the youngster Jesus made clay birds come to life for fun.  Cheesy
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« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2011, 11:00:43 AM »

Christ is ascended!
Of course his divine nature could have swallowed up that human attribute
That's actually the heresy of Eutychianism. No part of Christ's divine nature destroyed/swallowed up/made void his humanity.

I think Fr. Hopko mentioned that Jesus would have, at some point, been tempted by a woman the same way that all men are. If He was tempted with power, temporal bread, and selfish self-preservation (temptations in the desert), why not lust as well?

Well if he looked lustfully, then he would have sinned of course.....

Of course, let me re-state... I'm not speaking of LUST or sin.
I'm speaking of "attraction".  

Do any of you believe (without sin) that Jesus Christ was attracted to women through his human nature?
For instance, if he passed an attractive lady in his day would have he thought "wow!" or got the flutters, or nervous around a lady that he may have "liked"?

There's just so little detail of his teens & twenties.  Perhaps I'm just more curious than anything.
you might ask yourself why you are so curious about this.  What difference would the details mean to you?

It really wouldn't make a "difference" per se.... Except that I would love to see the human nature of Christ more.  I guess when we consider when we are in our 30's that a lot of life has happened, and I would love to know the life of Christ.  Like what did he do when he was 22 years old - etc.   What kind of person was he outside of the ministry.

Perhaps it would help me "relate" to the human nature of God more.
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« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2011, 11:08:52 AM »

It really wouldn't make a "difference" per se...

I think that we always have to be aware that the mind is going to offer endless curiosities regarding religious, theological and historical questions. There are always going to be contradictions to hone in on, seeming paradoxes, etc. I think the thing that I have to remind myself of the most is that ultimately many of these curiosities are distractions from rather than indicators of a holy life. I know at least I tend to categorize all of this in the "God" section of my brain as if it constituted some spiritual activity to contemplate these kinds of things, but most often it does not.

I'm not discouraging you from asking questions at all, but rather bringing up the very real fact that there are going to be an infinite number of questions which your brain will continue to postulate. So it's really not a matter of getting answers until you are satisfied. I think I'm coming to the realization that often times answers are only given to quiet our minds so that we can get back to praying, or at least trying to pray. The rest is all distractions.

BTW Grammar Police: blasphemic is not a word; here you would use blasphemous.
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« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2011, 11:26:50 AM »


It really wouldn't make a "difference" per se.... Except that I would love to see the human nature of Christ more.  I guess when we consider when we are in our 30's that a lot of life has happened, and I would love to know the life of Christ.  Like what did he do when he was 22 years old - etc.   What kind of person was he outside of the ministry.

Perhaps it would help me "relate" to the human nature of God more.
I think I may understand a bit of what you're trying to get at. I spent most of my life as an Evangelical Protestant. Those people are very good at proving that Jesus is God. However, they aren't so strong on His humanity. Many of them would say, "He was a man."

I have found that Orthodoxy puts a proper balance on Christ's divinity and humanity - both are important to our salvation.

It is true that we lack of lot of biographical trivia about Jesus - but how much would be enough? Would we really benefit from knowing many of those details? Interesting, I agree, but not necessary.

That being said, since becoming Orthodox I have noticed how often Jesus is called "a man" in the Gospels - especially the Gospel of John. Do a little search, and you'll find a lot. It has helped me relate to Him as another man.
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« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2011, 12:11:32 PM »

It really wouldn't make a "difference" per se...

I think that we always have to be aware that the mind is going to offer endless curiosities regarding religious, theological and historical questions. There are always going to be contradictions to hone in on, seeming paradoxes, etc. I think the thing that I have to remind myself of the most is that ultimately many of these curiosities are distractions from rather than indicators of a holy life. I know at least I tend to categorize all of this in the "God" section of my brain as if it constituted some spiritual activity to contemplate these kinds of things, but most often it does not.

I'm not discouraging you from asking questions at all, but rather bringing up the very real fact that there are going to be an infinite number of questions which your brain will continue to postulate. So it's really not a matter of getting answers until you are satisfied. I think I'm coming to the realization that often times answers are only given to quiet our minds so that we can get back to praying, or at least trying to pray. The rest is all distractions.

BTW Grammar Police: blasphemic is not a word; here you would use blasphemous.

Thanks for this. Not just the grammar part, but the rest. Great reminder of what I do not do nearly enough of.
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« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2011, 01:07:32 PM »

It really wouldn't make a "difference" per se...

I think that we always have to be aware that the mind is going to offer endless curiosities regarding religious, theological and historical questions. There are always going to be contradictions to hone in on, seeming paradoxes, etc. I think the thing that I have to remind myself of the most is that ultimately many of these curiosities are distractions from rather than indicators of a holy life. I know at least I tend to categorize all of this in the "God" section of my brain as if it constituted some spiritual activity to contemplate these kinds of things, but most often it does not.

I'm not discouraging you from asking questions at all, but rather bringing up the very real fact that there are going to be an infinite number of questions which your brain will continue to postulate. So it's really not a matter of getting answers until you are satisfied. I think I'm coming to the realization that often times answers are only given to quiet our minds so that we can get back to praying, or at least trying to pray. The rest is all distractions.

BTW Grammar Police: blasphemic is not a word; here you would use blasphemous.

This is true. And to add to it: Even on the "theoretical" level, the Fathers insist that it's actually bad theology (in fact, it's not theology) to ask hypothetical questions. You are not engaging in theological reflection when so doing, just speculation.

BTW, I shall follow your example on the policing of grammar: One homes (not hones) in on something. For example, pilots, pigeons, and missiles home in on their destinations. Honing, on the other hand, involves whetstones and knives (and, metaphorically, the sharpening of skills).
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« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2011, 02:02:12 PM »

BTW, I shall follow your example on the policing of grammar: One homes (not hones) in on something. For example, pilots, pigeons, and missiles home in on their destinations. Honing, on the other hand, involves whetstones and knives (and, metaphorically, the sharpening of skills).

Sorry. This is not true. Both are acceptable English usage. They are alternative forms and the history of the phrase is disputed and which usage was earliest is disputed as well. EDIT:I do side on the origin being "home in on".

As a prescriptivist, "hone in on" is by far the most widely used and has been used to mean what "home in on" for quite sometime, thus it is Standard English.
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« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2011, 02:59:12 PM »

Christ is ascended!
Of course his divine nature could have swallowed up that human attribute
That's actually the heresy of Eutychianism. No part of Christ's divine nature destroyed/swallowed up/made void his humanity.

I think Fr. Hopko mentioned that Jesus would have, at some point, been tempted by a woman the same way that all men are. If He was tempted with power, temporal bread, and selfish self-preservation (temptations in the desert), why not lust as well?

Well if he looked lustfully, then he would have sinned of course.....

Of course, let me re-state... I'm not speaking of LUST or sin.
I'm speaking of "attraction".  

Do any of you believe (without sin) that Jesus Christ was attracted to women through his human nature?
For instance, if he passed an attractive lady in his day would have he thought "wow!" or got the flutters, or nervous around a lady that he may have "liked"?

There's just so little detail of his teens & twenties.  Perhaps I'm just more curious than anything.
you might ask yourself why you are so curious about this.  What difference would the details mean to you?

It really wouldn't make a "difference" per se.... Except that I would love to see the human nature of Christ more.  I guess when we consider when we are in our 30's that a lot of life has happened, and I would love to know the life of Christ.  Like what did he do when he was 22 years old - etc.   What kind of person was he outside of the ministry.

Perhaps it would help me "relate" to the human nature of God more.
God doesn't have a human nature.  God the Son has one.  And how can imputing sin to His human nature make Him more human?  Quite the reverse.
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« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2011, 03:04:33 PM »

Christ is ascended!
Of course his divine nature could have swallowed up that human attribute
That's actually the heresy of Eutychianism. No part of Christ's divine nature destroyed/swallowed up/made void his humanity.

I think Fr. Hopko mentioned that Jesus would have, at some point, been tempted by a woman the same way that all men are. If He was tempted with power, temporal bread, and selfish self-preservation (temptations in the desert), why not lust as well?

Well if he looked lustfully, then he would have sinned of course.....

Of course, let me re-state... I'm not speaking of LUST or sin.
I'm speaking of "attraction".  

Do any of you believe (without sin) that Jesus Christ was attracted to women through his human nature?
For instance, if he passed an attractive lady in his day would have he thought "wow!" or got the flutters, or nervous around a lady that he may have "liked"?

There's just so little detail of his teens & twenties.  Perhaps I'm just more curious than anything.
you might ask yourself why you are so curious about this.  What difference would the details mean to you?

It really wouldn't make a "difference" per se.... Except that I would love to see the human nature of Christ more.  I guess when we consider when we are in our 30's that a lot of life has happened, and I would love to know the life of Christ.  Like what did he do when he was 22 years old - etc.   What kind of person was he outside of the ministry.

Perhaps it would help me "relate" to the human nature of God more.
God doesn't have a human nature.  God the Son has one.  And how can imputing sin to His human nature make Him more human?  Quite the reverse.

Sorry, you lost me.  God the son is God, he has a human nature.  I completely and utterly believe that the Eastern Orthodox church teaches "God has a human nature through the son".

Temptation is not imputing sin.    Temptation is just temptation.  Imputing is different kind of like saying "what should have been sin".
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« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2011, 03:16:11 PM »

BTW, I shall follow your example on the policing of grammar: One homes (not hones) in on something. For example, pilots, pigeons, and missiles home in on their destinations. Honing, on the other hand, involves whetstones and knives (and, metaphorically, the sharpening of skills).

Sorry. This is not true. Both are acceptable English usage. They are alternative forms and the history of the phrase is disputed and which usage was earliest is disputed as well. EDIT:I do side on the origin being "home in on".

As a prescriptivist, "hone in on" is by far the most widely used and has been used to mean what "home in on" for quite sometime, thus it is Standard English.

Agreed, I've heard and read blasphemic many times.

However, if one can actually show me the authority on the English language and how the authority came to be over the English language I could be convinced. Basically it's a word if we say it's a word. ;o)  Otherwise, we need to the see the authority over the entire language and how the authority of the language came into power.  If there is no true authority of the language then those who correct it are victims of a delusion that there is an authority over it.  Ever xerox anything?

The actual authority over grammar is only in your head, unless of course you are a "subject" of the social delusion or care that people judge you. 

Pride is a deadly sin. ;o)
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« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2011, 03:28:22 PM »

BTW, I shall follow your example on the policing of grammar: One homes (not hones) in on something. For example, pilots, pigeons, and missiles home in on their destinations. Honing, on the other hand, involves whetstones and knives (and, metaphorically, the sharpening of skills).

Sorry. This is not true. Both are acceptable English usage. They are alternative forms and the history of the phrase is disputed and which usage was earliest is disputed as well. EDIT:I do side on the origin being "home in on".

As a prescriptivist, "hone in on" is by far the most widely used and has been used to mean what "home in on" for quite sometime, thus it is Standard English.

Agreed, I've heard and read blasphemic many times.

However, if one can actually show me the authority on the English language and how the authority came to be over the English language I could be convinced. Basically it's a word if we say it's a word. ;o)  Otherwise, we need to the see the authority over the entire language and how the authority of the language came into power.  If there is no true authority of the language then those who correct it are victims of a delusion that there is an authority over it.  Ever xerox anything?

The actual authority over grammar is only in your head, unless of course you are a "subject" of the social delusion or care that people judge you. 

Pride is a deadly sin. ;o)


Language is as language does. If you want to be understood by members of a language community, it is best to know the rules. At University I don't sound (or try not to) like I do when talking to folks I live around and vice versa. Doing either would possibly alienate and send the wrong connotations than I would mean. I am fluent in both forms of English.

Rules are developed to help educate folks to better get along within language communities.

I am a descriptivist. I said prescriptivist earlier. I am both. We all are.

A lot of people here are language / English / word nerds. It's all in fun. At least for me.

And this is pretty much an English language board and there many non-Native speakers, so it ain't bad to occasionally point out poor usage of English. And blasphemic is certainly poor usage and not accepted as a regionalism, colloquialism, etc. It is an area were it is poor usage, as we already have a widely used adjective / adverb to describe what you are attempting to convey.

Again, I think it is always in good spirit around here. I hope it is received in such a manner as well.   
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« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2011, 11:58:02 PM »

I should have left out the grammar policing so that my spiritual "advice" would have gotten more play. Oh well!
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« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2011, 12:12:25 AM »

Christ is ascended!
Of course his divine nature could have swallowed up that human attribute
That's actually the heresy of Eutychianism. No part of Christ's divine nature destroyed/swallowed up/made void his humanity.

I think Fr. Hopko mentioned that Jesus would have, at some point, been tempted by a woman the same way that all men are. If He was tempted with power, temporal bread, and selfish self-preservation (temptations in the desert), why not lust as well?

Well if he looked lustfully, then he would have sinned of course.....

Of course, let me re-state... I'm not speaking of LUST or sin.
I'm speaking of "attraction".  

Do any of you believe (without sin) that Jesus Christ was attracted to women through his human nature?
For instance, if he passed an attractive lady in his day would have he thought "wow!" or got the flutters, or nervous around a lady that he may have "liked"?

There's just so little detail of his teens & twenties.  Perhaps I'm just more curious than anything.
you might ask yourself why you are so curious about this.  What difference would the details mean to you?

It really wouldn't make a "difference" per se.... Except that I would love to see the human nature of Christ more.  I guess when we consider when we are in our 30's that a lot of life has happened, and I would love to know the life of Christ.  Like what did he do when he was 22 years old - etc.   What kind of person was he outside of the ministry.

Perhaps it would help me "relate" to the human nature of God more.

My priest addressed this once during Bible study. He said, the Bible is a book on how to achieve salvation -- it is not an autobiography of Christ's life. If it were, we would have such details as "What was Christ's favorite food?" "What were his opinions of the economic political situation in Israel at the time?" "What did he think of the Roman occupation?" "Did he prefer cotton or wool tunics?"

Instead, the Gospels answer questions like "How does one get into the kingdom of heaven?" "How does one achieve eternal life?" and of course the greatest one of all, "What do you serve when you run out of wine?" Wink

The reason the Gospels don't focus on Christ's humanity is because it is teaching us what to focus on; the Divine. We study the Divine nature of Christ so that we may become like Him.

Humans are already very good at being human; it's becoming Divine we need help in. Smiley
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« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2011, 12:18:50 AM »

Humans are already very good at being human; it's becoming Divine we need help in. Smiley
Love it! So true.
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« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2011, 12:32:51 PM »

Sorry, you lost me.  God the son is God, he has a human nature.  I completely and utterly believe that the Eastern Orthodox church teaches "God has a human nature through the son". 

The Church tends to be specific when it comes to revelation; we say the Son of God has a human nature, and that the Son of God is True God and one with the Father - but we do not say "God has a human nature," or that "God has a human nature through the Son" since both are a bit more vague than the content of revelation.  Precision, fidelity to revelation, and prayer keep us out of heresy.
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« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2011, 01:39:58 PM »

Humans are already very good at being human; it's becoming Divine we need help in. Smiley
Love it! So true.

I disagree here. To the degree we are human in light of the grace of God is to the degree we are also divine. Being Human is not antithetical to the Divine. It was in virtue of both His divinity and humanity Christ lived the life He did.

A member of the species H. sapiens could possible be devoid of humanity and thus the possibility of the Divine. Fr. Thomas Hopko grinds on this insight from C.S. Lewis's Abolition of Man. For sometime before that text and more systematically and convincingly put, thinkers have speculated on the disappearance of what we might call "humanity", while the species H. sapiens remains.
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« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2011, 01:57:25 PM »

Hmm. I think that I see what you're saying.

I just typed out a whole paragraph of a response and it doesn't make any sense. I concede for the moment. Wink
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« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2011, 06:40:10 PM »

Scripture says that he was tempted in every way as we are, yet did not sin. Therefore one would have to conclude that he did see women as attractive.
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« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2011, 07:22:30 PM »

Sorry, you lost me.  God the son is God, he has a human nature.  I completely and utterly believe that the Eastern Orthodox church teaches "God has a human nature through the son". 

The Church tends to be specific when it comes to revelation; we say the Son of God has a human nature, and that the Son of God is True God and one with the Father - but we do not say "God has a human nature," or that "God has a human nature through the Son" since both are a bit more vague than the content of revelation.  Precision, fidelity to revelation, and prayer keep us out of heresy.

I understand the part where heretical content can come from saying "God has a human nature", because that could really run into some issues...

I suppose that you are addressing the vagueness of the human nature of the son when saying "God has a human nature through the son".  I'm trying to think of a better way of wording this.  I mean the fact that God became man through the flesh, and that God understands what temptation is as he became man is undoubtedly an important issue.  I agree how I phrased it was kind of weird, but I'm trying to think of a better way to rephrase without going vague.  LOL.

How about "God understands our human nature completely because he became man."  or 'The son has a complete human nature whom exists in the divinity of the Trinity" ?   dunno...

That's kind of more of what I meant as the human nature is a distinct characteristic of the son, whom of course is fully God and fully human.

(I forget the saint) who wrote about the importance of the perfect example in the fullness of humanity within divinity.  I wish I had a better memory (age and kids will do this).


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« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2011, 07:53:42 PM »

Scripture says that he was tempted in every way as we are, yet did not sin. Therefore one would have to conclude that he did see women as attractive.

Wouldn't He also have to find men, fire-hydrants and animals sexually attractive according to this reasoning?
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« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2011, 08:39:34 PM »

I don't see why He wouldn't have had homosexual and zoophilic temptation, I'm sure it was all around Him if only due to Greek influence.

If I may ask a question: If in Orthodoxy sin can be involuntary, why isn't it a sin to be tempted?
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« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2011, 08:59:25 PM »

If I may ask a question: If in Orthodoxy sin can be involuntary, why isn't it a sin to be tempted?
Because temptation doesn't actually affect an ontological change to your person, your environment and your relationship with God like sinning does.

My understanding, at least.
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« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2011, 09:03:55 PM »

Makes sense.
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« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2011, 09:07:55 PM »

The Spririt has descened!
I don't see why He wouldn't have had homosexual and zoophilic temptation, I'm sure it was all around Him if only due to Greek influence.

If I may ask a question: If in Orthodoxy sin can be involuntary, why isn't it a sin to be tempted?

As an elder of Mt. Athos said: "Temptatios are like airplanes [who says they aren't up to date in the monasteries].  You can't help but see them fly by, but you can refuse to give them a place to land."
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« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2011, 09:14:54 PM »

The Spririt has descened!
I don't see why He wouldn't have had homosexual and zoophilic temptation, I'm sure it was all around Him if only due to Greek influence.

If I may ask a question: If in Orthodoxy sin can be involuntary, why isn't it a sin to be tempted?

As an elder of Mt. Athos said: "Temptatios are like airplanes [who says they aren't up to date in the monasteries].  You can't help but see them fly by, but you can refuse to give them a place to land."

One priest said that the best way to overcome a persistent temptation is to visualize a purple elephant.
Anyway, how does that poem about purple elephants go?
. . .
But I can tell you one thing.
I would rather see than be one.

I wonder how Christ overcame temptations.
We know from the Holy Bible that He was tempted by the devil.
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« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2011, 09:29:00 PM »

[who says they aren't up to date in the monasteries].
I there's at least who has facebook. I don't know whether to laugh or cry...
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