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Author Topic: First council of Toledo 397 - 400, Filioque  (Read 12576 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: June 02, 2011, 02:06:37 PM »

Photios is a schismatic, no authority at all.

You mean Saint Photios?

saint?
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« Reply #46 on: June 02, 2011, 02:07:48 PM »

He's a saint in the Eastern Orthodox Church. As far as I know, Roman Catholics do not consider him a saint.
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« Reply #47 on: June 02, 2011, 02:23:17 PM »

Photios was a schismatic, no glory at all only that which he receives from those schismatics like him. May God have mercy of them.

Your justification on Saint Agustin hold as an eastern saint  does not make sense at all, if Agustine taught Heresy, even in ignorance of greek "t"radition, he couldn't be saint.  Or He is realy a saint and filioque is not a heresy. That easy.

Did you read already the refference I brought of the first council of Toledo?

Do you have the document that states that Saint Epiphanius was corrected by someone?, Who and how corrected him?, is there evidence of that, or just circunstancial evidence?

Please do not multiquote, quite tiring, is that your strategy?
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« Reply #48 on: June 02, 2011, 02:23:55 PM »

He's a saint in the Eastern Orthodox Church. As far as I know, Roman Catholics do not consider him a saint.

yes I know. I just can't find his sainthood.
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« Reply #49 on: June 02, 2011, 02:29:44 PM »

He's a saint in the Eastern Orthodox Church. As far as I know, Roman Catholics do not consider him a saint.

yes I know. I just can't find his sainthood.

"Our father among the saints Photius the Great (also Photios; Greek Φωτιoς), Patriarch of Constantinople, is considered one of the greatest patriarchs of Constantinople. His feast day is celebrated on February 6.

"St. Photius was condemned as patriarch by the Robber Council of 869-870, but the Eighth Ecumenical Council (879-880) affirmed his restoration to his see. Although he was accused of causing the "Photian" Schism, he was recognized as a major peacemaker of that time. He reconciled with Patriarch Ignatius, who named him as his successor (for a second time) upon Ignatius' death in 877."

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Photius_the_Great



Follower of the Apostles' way
And teacher of mankind:
Intercede, O Photius, with the Lord of all,
To grant peace to the world
And to our souls great mercy!

That rabbit trail has reached its end, I'd say. Back to the thread. police
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« Reply #50 on: June 02, 2011, 02:48:09 PM »

He's a saint in the Eastern Orthodox Church. As far as I know, Roman Catholics do not consider him a saint.

yes I know. I just can't find his sainthood.

"Our father among the saints Photius the Great (also Photios; Greek Φωτιoς), Patriarch of Constantinople, is considered one of the greatest patriarchs of Constantinople. His feast day is celebrated on February 6.

"St. Photius was condemned as patriarch by the Robber Council of 869-870, but the Eighth Ecumenical Council (879-880) affirmed his restoration to his see. Although he was accused of causing the "Photian" Schism, he was recognized as a major peacemaker of that time. He reconciled with Patriarch Ignatius, who named him as his successor (for a second time) upon Ignatius' death in 877."

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Photius_the_Great



Follower of the Apostles' way
And teacher of mankind:
Intercede, O Photius, with the Lord of all,
To grant peace to the world
And to our souls great mercy!

That rabbit trail has reached its end, I'd say. Back to the thread. police


Where are his merits. he divided the church of the east from the Catholic Church and from him the nationalistic pride of east grew.
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« Reply #51 on: June 02, 2011, 02:48:46 PM »


Where are his merits. he divided the church of the east from the Catholic Church and from him the nationalistic pride of east grew.
No he didn't.
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« Reply #52 on: June 02, 2011, 02:55:28 PM »

Where are his merits. he divided the church of the east from the Catholic Church and from him the nationalistic pride of east grew.

He preserved the Catholic Church from falling into heresy.
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« Reply #53 on: June 02, 2011, 02:59:40 PM »

I wonder of Dattaswami has become Roman Catholic.
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« Reply #54 on: June 02, 2011, 03:06:47 PM »

Christ is ascended!
Photios was a schismatic, no glory at all only that which he receives from those schismatics like him. May God have mercy of them.
Christ I know, and St. Photios I know, but who are you?


Your justification on Saint Agustin hold as an eastern saint  does not make sense at all, if Agustine taught Heresy, even in ignorance of greek "t"radition, he couldn't be saint.  Or He is realy a saint and filioque is not a heresy. That easy.
Or you don't know what you are talking about.  That is easy to see.

Other than Christ, no one is 100%.  Even your Vatican doesn't claim that your supreme pontiffs are 100%.  If God overlooks St. Augustine's self admitted shortcomings, who am I to argue with the judgement of His Church?

Did you read already the refference I brought of the first council of Toledo?
the Latin text? Yes.  Before I comment on that, tell us, can you read it?

Do you have the document that states that Saint Epiphanius was corrected by someone?, Who and how corrected him?, is there evidence of that, or just circunstancial evidence?
If St. Ephiphanius' own writing is circumstantial, then it's circumstantial.

Please do not multiquote, quite tiring, is that your strategy?
You have demonstrated problems with citation and quotes, and therefore you prefer your agenda.  Given the tedium of that agenda, who are you to complain of being "tired."
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« Reply #55 on: June 02, 2011, 03:08:25 PM »

Christ is ascended!
He's a saint in the Eastern Orthodox Church. As far as I know, Roman Catholics do not consider him a saint.

yes I know. I just can't find his sainthood.
Because you walk in Darkness.
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« Reply #56 on: June 02, 2011, 03:34:13 PM »

He's a saint in the Eastern Orthodox Church. As far as I know, Roman Catholics do not consider him a saint.
He's on the Byzantine Catholic calendar.  Wink

In Christ,
Andrew
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« Reply #57 on: June 02, 2011, 03:37:39 PM »

Christ is ascended!
He's a saint in the Eastern Orthodox Church. As far as I know, Roman Catholics do not consider him a saint.
He's on the Byzantine Catholic calendar.  Wink

In Christ,
Andrew
I'm sure the Grand Inquistor thinks he knows bettter than the Vatican on that as well.  Even the Latins who don't consider him a saint still insist that he died in communion with Rome.
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« Reply #58 on: June 02, 2011, 03:50:04 PM »

Where are his merits. he divided the church of the east from the Catholic Church and from him the nationalistic pride of east grew.

He preserved the Catholic Church from falling into heresy.

No Catholic Churhc without communion with Rome.
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« Reply #59 on: June 02, 2011, 03:53:00 PM »

Where are his merits. he divided the church of the east from the Catholic Church and from him the nationalistic pride of east grew.

He preserved the Catholic Church from falling into heresy.

No Catholic Churhc without communion with Rome.
Nuh-uh.
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« Reply #60 on: June 02, 2011, 03:57:29 PM »

...



...

thanks for your eloquence
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« Reply #61 on: June 02, 2011, 04:08:34 PM »

Christ is ascended!
He's a saint in the Eastern Orthodox Church. As far as I know, Roman Catholics do not consider him a saint.

yes I know. I just can't find his sainthood.
Because you walk in Darkness.

Thank you Brother of Light.
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« Reply #62 on: June 02, 2011, 04:09:55 PM »

He's a saint in the Eastern Orthodox Church. As far as I know, Roman Catholics do not consider him a saint.
He's on the Byzantine Catholic calendar.  Wink

In Christ,
Andrew

Yes, that sounds crazy to me, I imagine that Photios is jumping of Joy to see that osme of his believers went back to the Catholic Church while he didn't.
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« Reply #63 on: June 02, 2011, 04:10:57 PM »

Where are his merits. he divided the church of the east from the Catholic Church and from him the nationalistic pride of east grew.

He preserved the Catholic Church from falling into heresy.

What heresy? Filioque, yet you proclaim that Saint Agustine is a Saint, don't you?
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« Reply #64 on: June 02, 2011, 04:11:36 PM »

Where are his merits. he divided the church of the east from the Catholic Church and from him the nationalistic pride of east grew.

He preserved the Catholic Church from falling into heresy.

What heresy? Filioque, yet you proclaim that Saint Agustine is a Saint, don't you?
Here we go...
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« Reply #65 on: June 02, 2011, 04:17:22 PM »

I wonder of Dattaswami has become Roman Catholic.

No he is closest to the East, so he may have more contact with EOs.
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« Reply #66 on: June 02, 2011, 04:18:19 PM »

Christ is ascended!
He's a saint in the Eastern Orthodox Church. As far as I know, Roman Catholics do not consider him a saint.
He's on the Byzantine Catholic calendar.  Wink

In Christ,
Andrew
I'm sure the Grand Inquistor thinks he knows bettter than the Vatican on that as well.  Even the Latins who don't consider him a saint still insist that he died in communion with Rome.


That doesn't make him a saint.
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« Reply #67 on: June 02, 2011, 04:19:05 PM »

Christ is ascended!
Where are his merits. he divided the church of the east from the Catholic Church and from him the nationalistic pride of east grew.

He preserved the Catholic Church from falling into heresy.

No Catholic Churhc without communion with Rome.
The Fathers of the Catholic Church who assembled in 381 in Constantantinople and set the Church's seal upon the Creed were not at the time in communion with Rome.

It's One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.  Not "Roman Church."
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« Reply #68 on: June 02, 2011, 04:19:36 PM »

Where are his merits. he divided the church of the east from the Catholic Church and from him the nationalistic pride of east grew.

He preserved the Catholic Church from falling into heresy.

What heresy? Filioque, yet you proclaim that Saint Agustine is a Saint, don't you?

We don't glorify saints solely based on their Dogmatic Theology test scores.
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« Reply #69 on: June 02, 2011, 04:20:24 PM »

Christ is ascended!
Where are his merits. he divided the church of the east from the Catholic Church and from him the nationalistic pride of east grew.

He preserved the Catholic Church from falling into heresy.

No Catholic Churhc without communion with Rome.
The Fathers of the Catholic Church who assembled in 381 in Constantantinople and set the Church's seal upon the Creed were not at the time in communion with Rome.

It's One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.  Not "Roman Church."


I am catholic, not Roman, though thank you all for using latin letters.
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« Reply #70 on: June 02, 2011, 04:21:37 PM »

Where are his merits. he divided the church of the east from the Catholic Church and from him the nationalistic pride of east grew.

He preserved the Catholic Church from falling into heresy.

What heresy? Filioque, yet you proclaim that Saint Agustine is a Saint, don't you?

We don't glorify saints solely based on their Dogmatic Theology test scores.

Well that is why we can undestand palamas as a saint among of you. another schismatic.
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« Reply #71 on: June 02, 2011, 04:21:58 PM »

Christ is ascended!
I see you are speechless.
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« Reply #72 on: June 02, 2011, 04:22:08 PM »

Where are his merits. he divided the church of the east from the Catholic Church and from him the nationalistic pride of east grew.

He preserved the Catholic Church from falling into heresy.

No Catholic Churhc without communion with Rome.

If Rome ceases to proclaim the faith once delivered to the Apostles, that faith believed always, everywhere, by all, then yes it is. The Church is defined in terms of truth, not in terms of cities.
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« Reply #73 on: June 02, 2011, 04:22:54 PM »

Christ is ascended!
I see you are speechless.

 No comment on the big void of your words
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« Reply #74 on: June 02, 2011, 04:24:20 PM »

Where are his merits. he divided the church of the east from the Catholic Church and from him the nationalistic pride of east grew.

He preserved the Catholic Church from falling into heresy.

No Catholic Churhc without communion with Rome.

If Rome ceases to proclaim the faith once delivered to the Apostles, that faith believed always, everywhere, by all, then yes it is. The Church is defined in terms of truth, not in terms of cities.

Yes, in terms of truth, all is about truth, where do you stand?
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« Reply #75 on: June 02, 2011, 04:25:05 PM »

Christ is ascended!
Where are his merits. he divided the church of the east from the Catholic Church and from him the nationalistic pride of east grew.

He preserved the Catholic Church from falling into heresy.

No Catholic Churhc without communion with Rome.
The Fathers of the Catholic Church who assembled in 381 in Constantantinople and set the Church's seal upon the Creed were not at the time in communion with Rome.

It's One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.  Not "Roman Church."


I am catholic, not Roman, though thank you all for using latin letters.
Which you got from the Greeks (who got them from us Semites). I can easily use others.


You are ultramontanist, which is neither Catholic, nor the heritage of Orthodox Rome.
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« Reply #76 on: June 02, 2011, 04:27:17 PM »

Where are his merits. he divided the church of the east from the Catholic Church and from him the nationalistic pride of east grew.

He preserved the Catholic Church from falling into heresy.

What heresy? Filioque, yet you proclaim that Saint Agustine is a Saint, don't you?

We don't glorify saints solely based on their Dogmatic Theology test scores.

Well that is why we can undestand palamas as a saint among of you. another schismatic.

Whatever.

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« Reply #77 on: June 02, 2011, 04:27:30 PM »

Christ is ascended!
I see you are speechless.

 No comment on the big void of your words
Btw, have you answered the question: can you read the mass of Latin text you posted?  Or are you void of understanding that big catch of words?
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« Reply #78 on: June 02, 2011, 04:28:33 PM »

Christ is ascended!
Where are his merits. he divided the church of the east from the Catholic Church and from him the nationalistic pride of east grew.

He preserved the Catholic Church from falling into heresy.

No Catholic Churhc without communion with Rome.
The Fathers of the Catholic Church who assembled in 381 in Constantantinople and set the Church's seal upon the Creed were not at the time in communion with Rome.

It's One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.  Not "Roman Church."


I am catholic, not Roman, though thank you all for using latin letters.
...
...


pity, More void comments.
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« Reply #79 on: June 02, 2011, 04:30:31 PM »

Where are his merits. he divided the church of the east from the Catholic Church and from him the nationalistic pride of east grew.

He preserved the Catholic Church from falling into heresy.

No Catholic Churhc without communion with Rome.

If Rome ceases to proclaim the faith once delivered to the Apostles, that faith believed always, everywhere, by all, then yes it is. The Church is defined in terms of truth, not in terms of cities.

Yes, in terms of truth, all is about truth, where do you stand?
On the Rock of Christ, leaning on His pillars of Orthodoxy He erected to hold up His Church.
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                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #80 on: June 02, 2011, 04:32:25 PM »

Where are his merits. he divided the church of the east from the Catholic Church and from him the nationalistic pride of east grew.

He preserved the Catholic Church from falling into heresy.

No Catholic Churhc without communion with Rome.

If Rome ceases to proclaim the faith once delivered to the Apostles, that faith believed always, everywhere, by all, then yes it is. The Church is defined in terms of truth, not in terms of cities.

Yes, in terms of truth, all is about truth, where do you stand?

With Saints Photios, Palamas, and Peter: in the Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church. Smiley
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« Reply #81 on: June 02, 2011, 04:33:16 PM »

Christ is ascended!
Where are his merits. he divided the church of the east from the Catholic Church and from him the nationalistic pride of east grew.

He preserved the Catholic Church from falling into heresy.

No Catholic Churhc without communion with Rome.
The Fathers of the Catholic Church who assembled in 381 in Constantantinople and set the Church's seal upon the Creed were not at the time in communion with Rome.

It's One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.  Not "Roman Church."


I am catholic, not Roman, though thank you all for using latin letters.
...
...


pity, More void comments.
In other words, you are void of understanding them.

Btw, since this is not the foreign language forum, it is usual that you are required to post a translation in English, the lingua franca here.  Before a moderator is notified to demand this of you, I'll ask you again: do you know what you posted?  Or are you posting in ignorance?
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« Reply #82 on: June 02, 2011, 04:36:25 PM »

Christ is ascended!
Where are his merits. he divided the church of the east from the Catholic Church and from him the nationalistic pride of east grew.

He preserved the Catholic Church from falling into heresy.

No Catholic Churhc without communion with Rome.
The Fathers of the Catholic Church who assembled in 381 in Constantantinople and set the Church's seal upon the Creed were not at the time in communion with Rome.

It's One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.  Not "Roman Church."


I am catholic, not Roman, though thank you all for using latin letters.
...
...


pity, More void comments.
In other words, you are void of understanding them.

Btw, since this is not the foreign language forum, it is usual that you are required to post a translation in English, the lingua franca here.  Before a moderator is notified to demand this of you, I'll ask you again: do you know what you posted?  Or are you posting in ignorance?


Let me introduce you the innovative tool of the Translator of Google.

http://translate.google.com/?hl=es&tab=wT#la|en|
« Last Edit: June 02, 2011, 04:45:47 PM by Inquisitor » Logged
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« Reply #83 on: June 02, 2011, 04:37:53 PM »

Where are his merits. he divided the church of the east from the Catholic Church and from him the nationalistic pride of east grew.

He preserved the Catholic Church from falling into heresy.

No Catholic Churhc without communion with Rome.

If Rome ceases to proclaim the faith once delivered to the Apostles, that faith believed always, everywhere, by all, then yes it is. The Church is defined in terms of truth, not in terms of cities.

Yes, in terms of truth, all is about truth, where do you stand?
On the Rock of Christ, leaning on His pillars of Orthodoxy He erected to hold up His Church.



You?  Cheesy
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« Reply #84 on: June 02, 2011, 04:39:54 PM »

Where are his merits. he divided the church of the east from the Catholic Church and from him the nationalistic pride of east grew.

He preserved the Catholic Church from falling into heresy.

No Catholic Churhc without communion with Rome.

If Rome ceases to proclaim the faith once delivered to the Apostles, that faith believed always, everywhere, by all, then yes it is. The Church is defined in terms of truth, not in terms of cities.

Yes, in terms of truth, all is about truth, where do you stand?

With Saints Photios, Palamas, and Peter: in the Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church. Smiley

Pity, you missundertand, The Rock is Christ and he left the keys to Peter, whose  succesors are in Rome.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2011, 04:46:28 PM by Inquisitor » Logged
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« Reply #85 on: June 02, 2011, 04:46:05 PM »

Where are his merits. he divided the church of the east from the Catholic Church and from him the nationalistic pride of east grew.

He preserved the Catholic Church from falling into heresy.

What heresy? Filioque, yet you proclaim that Saint Agustine is a Saint, don't you?

We don't glorify saints solely based on their Dogmatic Theology test scores.

Well that is why we can undestand palamas as a saint among of you. another schismatic.

By the way, our Eastern Catholic brothers and sisters venerate ST GREGORY PALAMAS on the Second Sunday of the Great Fast each year.

I wouldn't bother arguing with this new poster, he strikes me as the alter-ego of another new poster who popped up the other day making equally inane arguments, purportedly as an extremely anti Roman Orthodox poster. Very similar rhetorical style.
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« Reply #86 on: June 02, 2011, 04:50:34 PM »

Where are his merits. he divided the church of the east from the Catholic Church and from him the nationalistic pride of east grew.

He preserved the Catholic Church from falling into heresy.

No Catholic Churhc without communion with Rome.

If Rome ceases to proclaim the faith once delivered to the Apostles, that faith believed always, everywhere, by all, then yes it is. The Church is defined in terms of truth, not in terms of cities.

Yes, in terms of truth, all is about truth, where do you stand?

With Saints Photios, Palamas, and Peter: in the Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church. Smiley

Pity, you missundertand The Rock is Christ, and he left the keys to Peter, Whose  succesors are in Rome.
Heretics and schismatics cannot succeed Apostles.

but St. Peter still has a successor in his first see

and the original Pope still succeeds St. Peter's disciple St. Mark the Evangelist


and all the bishops in the Orthodox diptychs of the Catholic Church with them continue to exercise the power of the keys.  Which is how you are locking yourself out of the Kingdom of Heaven.
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« Reply #87 on: June 02, 2011, 04:55:31 PM »


Christ is ascended!
Where are his merits. he divided the church of the east from the Catholic Church and from him the nationalistic pride of east grew.

He preserved the Catholic Church from falling into heresy.

No Catholic Churhc without communion with Rome.
The Fathers of the Catholic Church who assembled in 381 in Constantantinople and set the Church's seal upon the Creed were not at the time in communion with Rome.

It's One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.  Not "Roman Church."


I am catholic, not Roman, though thank you all for using latin letters.
...
...


pity, More void comments.
In other words, you are void of understanding them.

Btw, since this is not the foreign language forum, it is usual that you are required to post a translation in English, the lingua franca here.  Before a moderator is notified to demand this of you, I'll ask you again: do you know what you posted?  Or are you posting in ignorance?


Let me introduce you the innovative tool of the Translator of Google.

http://translate.google.com/?hl=es&tab=wT#la|en|
Then you shouldn't have a problem a) supplying the translation (as is the forum rules here) and b) state what proof text in it supports your agenda. Or is the Translator of Google beyond your abilities?
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #88 on: June 02, 2011, 05:48:39 PM »

OC Net gets the most...colorful characters...
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« Reply #89 on: June 02, 2011, 08:21:52 PM »

This is getting even more confusing.
You ask a specific question and get direct answers. Now you wish to make a speculative generalization?
The filioque was indeed an issue but was not a problem outside of the see of Rome for  well prior to the eighth century, but as long as the Bishop of Rome adhered to orthodox faith the rest of the Church could not really do much about it.

That makes no sense since the pope was hardly the head of the universal Church at the time.
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