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Author Topic: Cooperation and Fraternal Love between Chalcedonians and Non-Chalcedonians  (Read 828 times) Average Rating: 0
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Shlomlokh
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« on: May 31, 2011, 06:06:19 PM »

Christ is risen!

I had posted a thread a while back about Lenten cross-celebration (for lack of a better term), but it didn't quite go anywhere. Tongue I do have some further questions for you all about the EO-OO dynamic of working together and supporting one another. There is a multi-cultural festival in Roanoke every May and my priest brings a converted Frito-Lay Truck into what we lovingly refer to as "the bookmobile" filled with icons, books, etc. It even has a cupola on top and speakers inside that play Orthodox CDs. Cheesy

Anyway, the featured country this year at the festival was Egypt and the local Coptic community represented the country. They have a new priest and he shares the same missionary zeal as my priest. They introduced themselves to each other and the Coptic priest gave our priest some eBooks with writings of the Fathers, which my priest very graciously accepted. The Coptic priest wanted to have some sort of cooperation between the two of us, but my priest was very apprehensive about it and just sort of smiled and nodded because he was taught that the Copts aren't Orthodox (which I am trying to find books to dispel that notion). Father was impressed that the Coptic priest had a very evangelical spirit and of course the gift, as was the Coptic priest impressed with our bookmobile.

I guess my questions are, what is an appropriate cooperation between the Chalcedonians and the Non-Chalcedonians? I was thinking it would be nice if we went to their church for their feast day and invited them to come for ours and things like that, obviously not partaking of Sacraments. Has this been done in your area or would you ever employ this sort of thing? Perhaps this type of organic support from the laity and lower clergy might help move along reunion between our respective sides?

Also, could someone recommend a good, non-polemical book on OO-EO relations as it deals with Chalcedon? I saw one on Amazon by an Indian Orthodox priest, but it was quite pricey. I want to get one for my priest for Father's day (as well as one for myself). Smiley Any and all help is greatly appreciated!

In Christ,
Andrew
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« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2011, 06:10:07 PM »

There is a multi-cultural festival in Roanoke every May and my priest brings a converted Frito-Lay Truck into what we lovingly refer to as "the bookmobile" filled with icons, books, etc. It even has a cupola on top and speakers inside that play Orthodox CDs. Cheesy

That is SO cool!
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« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2011, 07:21:22 PM »

I think inviting them over to the Church on a feast day might be alright - depending on what is expected to be done.  You don't want to get too close to a concelebration or being in violation of the canon against praying with schismatics (and, again, I don't mean to be rude to the OO, but technically you are schismatic if one takes the view that the EO is the true Church, and that Christ's Body can't be in two parts unless he has an amputation), but of course St. Catherine Monastery on Mt. Sinai has the Muslim Bedouins who protect the Monastery come to it on Orthodox feast days and on special days in the Bedouin community, the monks go to their celebrations.  So I suppose it depends on what exactly is expected of each group at the other group's Church.

I would recommend, as well, frequent dinners and things sponsored by one parish one time and the other the next, so that members of each can come to know each other.  That is how reunion between the Copts and other OO and the EO is most likely to happen, by one on one (and parish on parish) interactions.  I'd also recommend that when there is something like a right to life march or a march against gay marriage, that if one of the two parishes intends to go to it, they invite the other to come and if both intend to go, that you go as one group.

Just some thoughts
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« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2011, 04:21:30 AM »

James, I am not sure why you keep repeating the same thing, especially on the OO board.

What if I choose not to consider that the EO is alone the true Church?

The Church has very clearly been divided in a human sense a great many times and has healed itself. Which part of the Church was the true Church during the Acacian Schism for instance? Or did the Georgian Church cease to be the Church because it was not in communion with the Byzantines?

You do need to read Church History more carefully. Whenever separated parts of the Church have been reconciled they have not treated the other as not having been part of the Church. What you are repeatedly proposing is a modern novelty.

In the 1850's when the Greek Church of Alexandria was planning to be reunited with the Coptic Orthodox Church to exist as one communion there was no consideration of one part not being the Church. In the present times the Antiochian and Syrian Orthodox have published synodal statements which allow for inter-communion and sharing of sacraments. The Greek and Coptic Orthodox Church in Alexandria allow for sharing of sacraments. None of this would be possible if in fact it was considered that only one party was the true Church.

Father Peter Farrington
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« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2011, 04:36:05 AM »

Two useful books..

http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/the-council-of-chalcedon-re-examined/194480

and

http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/orthodox-christology/10969273

I am the re-publisher of the first and the author of the second.

Father Peter Farrington
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« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2011, 09:13:45 AM »

There is a multi-cultural festival in Roanoke every May and my priest brings a converted Frito-Lay Truck into what we lovingly refer to as "the bookmobile" filled with icons, books, etc. It even has a cupola on top and speakers inside that play Orthodox CDs. Cheesy

What a small world!  I was in Roanoke about two years ago in that festival and I bought a book by St. John Cassian from that truck.  I never been back since though, so I don't know the new priest, but I have friends there.

Do you guys have liturgies only on Sunday?  What about a special day where you do a liturgy on Saturday just for the Church to come and listen to and understand?  What about visit one another's vespers?

I also am wary about the Coptic side of this as well.  I don't know the Coptic priest per se, but some priests and Coptic lay may not understand why exactly there's a rift between "your Orthodox" and "our Orthodox" and they just get permission from their bishops on whatever the case may be they're allowed to do.
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« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2011, 11:23:29 AM »

A tangent about branch theory and how to describe the current relationship between the OO and EO Churches was split off and put here:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,36750.msg579965.html#msg579965

Please address all comments on that issue in that thread.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2011, 11:23:54 AM by Salpy » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2011, 05:54:20 PM »

There is a multi-cultural festival in Roanoke every May and my priest brings a converted Frito-Lay Truck into what we lovingly refer to as "the bookmobile" filled with icons, books, etc. It even has a cupola on top and speakers inside that play Orthodox CDs. Cheesy

What a small world!  I was in Roanoke about two years ago in that festival and I bought a book by St. John Cassian from that truck.  I never been back since though, so I don't know the new priest, but I have friends there.

Do you guys have liturgies only on Sunday?  What about a special day where you do a liturgy on Saturday just for the Church to come and listen to and understand?  What about visit one another's vespers?

I also am wary about the Coptic side of this as well.  I don't know the Coptic priest per se, but some priests and Coptic lay may not understand why exactly there's a rift between "your Orthodox" and "our Orthodox" and they just get permission from their bishops on whatever the case may be they're allowed to do.
We only have Liturgies on Sundays and of course the Feasts, but perhaps that is a good idea to have one on a Saturday sometime (maybe in honor of a Saint we both venerate?). I like the idea of communal meals once in a while, I think someone mentioned that. There is also a Syriac mission in the area as well.

BTW, I was helping to work the bookmobile 2 years ago. I probably ran into you and didn't know it! Tongue

In Christ,
Andrew
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« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2011, 07:03:14 PM »

There is a multi-cultural festival in Roanoke every May and my priest brings a converted Frito-Lay Truck into what we lovingly refer to as "the bookmobile" filled with icons, books, etc. It even has a cupola on top and speakers inside that play Orthodox CDs. Cheesy

What a small world!  I was in Roanoke about two years ago in that festival and I bought a book by St. John Cassian from that truck.  I never been back since though, so I don't know the new priest, but I have friends there.

Do you guys have liturgies only on Sunday?  What about a special day where you do a liturgy on Saturday just for the Church to come and listen to and understand?  What about visit one another's vespers?

I also am wary about the Coptic side of this as well.  I don't know the Coptic priest per se, but some priests and Coptic lay may not understand why exactly there's a rift between "your Orthodox" and "our Orthodox" and they just get permission from their bishops on whatever the case may be they're allowed to do.
We only have Liturgies on Sundays and of course the Feasts, but perhaps that is a good idea to have one on a Saturday sometime (maybe in honor of a Saint we both venerate?). I like the idea of communal meals once in a while, I think someone mentioned that. There is also a Syriac mission in the area as well.

BTW, I was helping to work the bookmobile 2 years ago. I probably ran into you and didn't know it! Tongue

In Christ,
Andrew

Remember meeting a fat bearded guy with a couple of other Coptic friends, who bought a book by St. John Cassian?
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If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
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