Author Topic: Oriental orthodox perspective  (Read 1771 times)

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Offline Ansgar

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Oriental orthodox perspective
« on: May 31, 2011, 12:58:20 PM »
Hello.
I have in my time on this forum read a lot of threads concerning the council of Chalcedon. Unfortunately it seems like that I am never able to get a real picture of what the difference between the teachings of the eastern and oriental orthodox churches really is. If I have understood the eastern orthodox perspective right(which I sometimes doubt i have) Christ is both man and God but that these natures cannot be seperated. Now whenever I read an oriental orthodox view on this I keep coming up with the same conclusion as the eastern orthodox. Could someone please explain the teachings of the oriental orthodox church on this. I would prefer something that is not too complicated.

Thank you very much.

P.S. Please correct me if I have misunderstood something or written something which is uncorrect.
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Offline Benjamin the Red

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Re: Oriental orthodox perspective
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2011, 01:14:42 PM »
Dare I presume to not only summarize the EO response, but also the OO response? Please, anyone correct me if I speak incorrectly.


The Eastern Orthodox (Chalcedonian) doctrine is dyophysitism. Christ is two natures (one divine, one human) but that these are united inseparably in the one person of Jesus Christ. He is fully man and fully God.

The Oriential Orthodox (Non-Chalcedonian) doctrine is miaphysitism. Christ is one united nature (a single nature that is human and divine), and these are in the one person of Jesus Christ. He is fully man and fully God.


What the actual difference is, result wise, can be confusing. Honestly, our churches aren't sure. Several joint statements have been made in the last several decades affirming that these doctrines are the same, only the language used to express them is different. We mean the same thing, we're just saying it differently.

Our churches remain in dialogue on the theological and historical issues of the Council of Chalcedon, with the possibility of reunification.
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Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Oriental orthodox perspective
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2011, 01:30:47 PM »
Of course it is important to remember that there are still many EO and OO who say that the different language leads to a difference in faith, especially (IIRC) the Ethiopians and some in places such as Mt. Athos.
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Offline Benjamin the Red

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Re: Oriental orthodox perspective
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2011, 01:46:16 PM »
Of course it is important to remember that there are still many EO and OO who say that the different language leads to a difference in faith, especially (IIRC) the Ethiopians and some in places such as Mt. Athos.

Of course.

There are those in our churches who believe the EO and the OO maintain the same Orthodox faith (I believe this, personally). There are others who disagree. Some EOs consider OOs Eutychian monophysites, even though they have anathematized Eutyches. Some OOs consider EOs Nestorian dyophysites, even though we have anathematized Nestorius. Issues do remain in our churches, and full communion is not restored. However, dialogue continues.
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Oriental orthodox perspective
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2011, 02:06:40 PM »
Some terms you might need to know:

  • essence: EOs and OOs are practically the same on this point
  • nature: EOs use it to mean essence, OOs use this to mean a concrete reality, i.e. hypostasis, but overall, our two traditions agree on the fluidity of the term
  • hypostasis: EOs use it to mean person, OOs use this to mean concrete reality, which has slight differences
  • person: EOs and OOs are practically the same on this point
  • one:  EOs use it to mean a single thing that cannot be broken down any further (there is one apple); OOs use it to mean "unity," but not necessarily unable to be broken down or a confused unity (you and I are one)
  • two:  EOs use it to number the parts of a thing, hence only implies distinction (cortex and medulla, two parts in one kidney); OOs use it to number things, hence implies division (two kidneys)
  • in:  EOs use it to mean distinction (kidney functions in two parts); OOs use it to mean separation (kidney functions in you and me)
  • of:  EOs (some) might use it to think it to mean confusion (table salt made of sodium and chloride); OOs use it to unite things, not necessarily confusing them (a family made up of father, mother, children)

By now, if you are still confused, good.  Because it's better you just stick to what you need to know.  ;)
But if you somehow get it now, well then good job!  :o
« Last Edit: May 31, 2011, 02:20:46 PM by minasoliman »
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Offline Ansgar

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Re: Oriental orthodox perspective
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2011, 02:17:59 PM »
Thank you everyone. I really appreciate your help. You can't imagine how much I have learned since I found this place :)
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Oriental orthodox perspective
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2011, 05:44:08 AM »
Christ is two natures (one divine, one human)

Unfortunately, that phrasing is even more dangerously close to Nestorianism than even the standard Chalcedonian phrasing. Try "Christ is one hypostasis IN two natures".
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Offline Father Peter

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Re: Oriental orthodox perspective
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2011, 11:13:47 AM »
Ansgar

I have written about the OO view of things in my book here..

http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/orthodox-christology/10969273
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Offline Ansgar

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Re: Oriental orthodox perspective
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2011, 12:46:37 PM »
Ansgar

I have written about the OO view of things in my book here..

http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/orthodox-christology/10969273
Thank you father. I will try and see if I can get my hands on it.  :)
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite

Offline Severian

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Re: Oriental orthodox perspective
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2011, 08:56:40 PM »
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Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Oriental orthodox perspective
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2011, 09:35:56 PM »
Why subscribe to a four-month-old thread?
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Offline Severian

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Re: Oriental orthodox perspective
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2011, 05:30:55 PM »
Why subscribe to a four-month-old thread?
Because Rakovsky wanted to ask some questions about OOxy, I suggested him to come to this thread to get his questions answered, but he doesn't seem to have posted yet.

Plus, I am the king of thread resurrections :P, have you visited the EO-OO private fora lately? 8)
« Last Edit: October 02, 2011, 05:31:20 PM by Severian »
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ

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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Oriental orthodox perspective
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2011, 07:07:58 PM »
"And lo! The threads were opened, and many posts of the board which had fallen asleep were raised.” -Severian 27:52
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Offline Severian

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Re: Oriental orthodox perspective
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2011, 07:44:13 PM »
"And lo! The threads were opened, and many posts of the board which had fallen asleep were raised.” -Severian 27:52
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"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ

May the 21 new martyrs pray for us all.

Please, remember me in your prayers

Lord, protect Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq.

Offline William

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Re: Oriental orthodox perspective
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2011, 10:38:21 PM »
"And lo! The threads were opened, and many posts of the board which had fallen asleep were raised.” -Severian 27:52
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Offline Severian

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Re: Oriental orthodox perspective
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2011, 10:57:37 PM »
"And lo! The threads were opened, and many posts of the board which had fallen asleep were raised.” -Severian 27:52
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Second!
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ

May the 21 new martyrs pray for us all.

Please, remember me in your prayers

Lord, protect Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq.