Ansgar
High Elder
 Offline
Faith: More than an inquirer, less than a catechumen
Jurisdiction: Exarchate of orthodox churches of russian tradition in western Europe
Posts: 1,839
Keep your mind in hell and do not despair
|
 |
« on: May 31, 2011, 12:58:20 PM » |
|
Hello.
I have in my time on this forum read a lot of threads concerning the council of Chalcedon. Unfortunately it seems like that I am never able to get a real picture of what the difference between the teachings of the eastern and oriental orthodox churches really is. If I have understood the eastern orthodox perspective right(which I sometimes doubt i have) Christ is both man and God but that these natures cannot be seperated. Now whenever I read an oriental orthodox view on this I keep coming up with the same conclusion as the eastern orthodox. Could someone please explain the teachings of the oriental orthodox church on this. I would prefer something that is not too complicated.
Thank you very much.
P.S. Please correct me if I have misunderstood something or written something which is uncorrect.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Christ is risen!
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.
-St Silouan the athonite
|
|
|
Benjamin the Red
Recovering Calvinist
High Elder
Offline
Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America, Diocese of Dallas and the South ||| American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 1,594
Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me.
|
|
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2011, 01:14:42 PM » |
|
Dare I presume to not only summarize the EO response, but also the OO response? Please, anyone correct me if I speak incorrectly.
The Eastern Orthodox (Chalcedonian) doctrine is dyophysitism. Christ is two natures (one divine, one human) but that these are united inseparably in the one person of Jesus Christ. He is fully man and fully God.
The Oriential Orthodox (Non-Chalcedonian) doctrine is miaphysitism. Christ is one united nature (a single nature that is human and divine), and these are in the one person of Jesus Christ. He is fully man and fully God.
What the actual difference is, result wise, can be confusing. Honestly, our churches aren't sure. Several joint statements have been made in the last several decades affirming that these doctrines are the same, only the language used to express them is different. We mean the same thing, we're just saying it differently.
Our churches remain in dialogue on the theological and historical issues of the Council of Chalcedon, with the possibility of reunification.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy
|
|
|
JamesRottnek
Taxiarches
Offline
Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 4,553
I am Bibleman
|
|
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2011, 01:30:47 PM » |
|
Of course it is important to remember that there are still many EO and OO who say that the different language leads to a difference in faith, especially (IIRC) the Ethiopians and some in places such as Mt. Athos.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice. Can you guess what it is?
The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.
American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.
Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
|
|
|
Benjamin the Red
Recovering Calvinist
High Elder
Offline
Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America, Diocese of Dallas and the South ||| American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 1,594
Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me.
|
|
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2011, 01:46:16 PM » |
|
Of course it is important to remember that there are still many EO and OO who say that the different language leads to a difference in faith, especially (IIRC) the Ethiopians and some in places such as Mt. Athos.
Of course. There are those in our churches who believe the EO and the OO maintain the same Orthodox faith (I believe this, personally). There are others who disagree. Some EOs consider OOs Eutychian monophysites, even though they have anathematized Eutyches. Some OOs consider EOs Nestorian dyophysites, even though we have anathematized Nestorius. Issues do remain in our churches, and full communion is not restored. However, dialogue continues. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy
|
|
|
|
minasoliman
|
|
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2011, 02:06:40 PM » |
|
Some terms you might need to know: - essence: EOs and OOs are practically the same on this point
- nature: EOs use it to mean essence, OOs use this to mean a concrete reality, i.e. hypostasis, but overall, our two traditions agree on the fluidity of the term
- hypostasis: EOs use it to mean person, OOs use this to mean concrete reality, which has slight differences
- person: EOs and OOs are practically the same on this point
- one: EOs use it to mean a single thing that cannot be broken down any further (there is one apple); OOs use it to mean "unity," but not necessarily unable to be broken down or a confused unity (you and I are one)
- two: EOs use it to number the parts of a thing, hence only implies distinction (cortex and medulla, two parts in one kidney); OOs use it to number things, hence implies division (two kidneys)
- in: EOs use it to mean distinction (kidney functions in two parts); OOs use it to mean separation (kidney functions in you and me)
- of: EOs (some) might use it to think it to mean confusion (table salt made of sodium and chloride); OOs use it to unite things, not necessarily confusing them (a family made up of father, mother, children)
By now, if you are still confused, good. Because it's better you just stick to what you need to know.  But if you somehow get it now, well then good job!  |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: May 31, 2011, 02:20:46 PM by minasoliman »
|
Logged
|
Vain existence can never exist, for \\\"unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain.\\\" (Psalm 127)
If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
|
|
|
Ansgar
High Elder
Offline
Faith: More than an inquirer, less than a catechumen
Jurisdiction: Exarchate of orthodox churches of russian tradition in western Europe
Posts: 1,839
Keep your mind in hell and do not despair
|
|
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2011, 02:17:59 PM » |
|
Thank you everyone. I really appreciate your help. You can't imagine how much I have learned since I found this place  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Christ is risen!
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.
-St Silouan the athonite
|
|
|
deusveritasest
Toumarches
Offline
Faith: None
Jurisdiction: None
Posts: 7,528
|
|
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2011, 05:44:08 AM » |
|
Christ is two natures (one divine, one human)
Unfortunately, that phrasing is even more dangerously close to Nestorianism than even the standard Chalcedonian phrasing. Try "Christ is one hypostasis IN two natures". |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
I stopped posting here in August 2011 because of stark disagreement with the policies of the administration and moderating team of the forums. If you desire, feel free to PM me, message me on Facebook (link in profile), or email me: cddombrowski@yahoo.com |
|
|
|
Father Peter
|
|
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2011, 11:13:47 AM » |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Ansgar
High Elder
Offline
Faith: More than an inquirer, less than a catechumen
Jurisdiction: Exarchate of orthodox churches of russian tradition in western Europe
Posts: 1,839
Keep your mind in hell and do not despair
|
|
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2011, 12:46:37 PM » |
|
Thank you father. I will try and see if I can get my hands on it. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Christ is risen!
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.
-St Silouan the athonite
|
|
|
|
Severian
|
|
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2011, 08:56:40 PM » |
|
--Subscribed--
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Christ is risen! !المسيح قام Χριστός ἀνέστη! ⲠⲓⲬⲣⲓⲥⲧⲟⲥ ⲁϥⲧⲱⲛϥ! Christus resurrexit! Come and join OCnet's new book club! |
|
|
JamesRottnek
Taxiarches
Offline
Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 4,553
I am Bibleman
|
|
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2011, 09:35:56 PM » |
|
Why subscribe to a four-month-old thread?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice. Can you guess what it is?
The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.
American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.
Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
|
|
|
|
Severian
|
|
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2011, 05:30:55 PM » |
|
Why subscribe to a four-month-old thread?
Because Rakovsky wanted to ask some questions about OOxy, I suggested him to come to this thread to get his questions answered, but he doesn't seem to have posted yet. Plus, I am the king of thread resurrections  , have you visited the EO-OO private fora lately?  |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: October 02, 2011, 05:31:20 PM by Severian »
|
Logged
|
Christ is risen! !المسيح قام Χριστός ἀνέστη! ⲠⲓⲬⲣⲓⲥⲧⲟⲥ ⲁϥⲧⲱⲛϥ! Christus resurrexit! Come and join OCnet's new book club! |
|
|
|
NicholasMyra
|
|
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2011, 07:07:58 PM » |
|
"And lo! The threads were opened, and many posts of the board which had fallen asleep were raised.” -Severian 27:52
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Severian
|
|
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2011, 07:44:13 PM » |
|
"And lo! The threads were opened, and many posts of the board which had fallen asleep were raised.” -Severian 27:52
New signature! |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Christ is risen! !المسيح قام Χριστός ἀνέστη! ⲠⲓⲬⲣⲓⲥⲧⲟⲥ ⲁϥⲧⲱⲛϥ! Christus resurrexit! Come and join OCnet's new book club! |
|
|
|
William
|
|
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2011, 10:38:21 PM » |
|
"And lo! The threads were opened, and many posts of the board which had fallen asleep were raised.” -Severian 27:52
POTM nomination. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
A beard covers many chins. - Tallitot
|
|
|
|
Severian
|
|
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2011, 10:57:37 PM » |
|
"And lo! The threads were opened, and many posts of the board which had fallen asleep were raised.” -Severian 27:52
POTM nomination. Second! |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Christ is risen! !المسيح قام Χριστός ἀνέστη! ⲠⲓⲬⲣⲓⲥⲧⲟⲥ ⲁϥⲧⲱⲛϥ! Christus resurrexit! Come and join OCnet's new book club! |
|
|
|
