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Deacon Lance
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« on: June 12, 2004, 12:41:49 PM » |
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It is, in order, the Our Father, The Hail Mary, and the Glory Be in Elvish, translated by Tolkien himself.
+ütaremma
+ütaremma i +½a han +½a GêÖ
na aire esselya GêÖ
aranielya na tuluva GêÖ
na care ind+¦melya
cemende tambe Erumande :
+ÃÂÂmen anta s+¡ra ilaur+½a massamma GêÖ
ar +ÃÂÂmen apsene +¦caremmar
s+¡v’ emme apsenet tien i +¦carer emmen.
+ülame tulya +¦saht+¡enna
mal +ÃÂÂme etelehta ulcullo : n+ÃÂÂsie :
Aia Maria
Aia Mar+¡a quanta Eruanno GêÖ
i H+¬ru aselye GêÖ
aistana elye im+¡ca n+¡si GêÖ
ar aistana i yave m+¦nalyo Y+¬sus :
Aire Mar+¡a Eruo ontaril
+àhyame r+ÃÂÂmen +¦carindor
s+¡ ar l+¦messe ya firuvamme : n+ÃÂÂsie :
Alcar i Ataren
Alcar i ataren ar i yondon ar i airefean tambe enge i et
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My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
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Jakub
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« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2004, 12:48:26 PM » |
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I had a feeling that there were some odd renderings in my Jerusalem Bible.
james
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An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.
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Ebor
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« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2004, 01:08:36 PM » |
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Ah, you found that! I think it's great. Brushing up on your Quenya, Deacon Lance?
Ebor
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"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis
The Katana of Reasoned Discussion
For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
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David
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« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2004, 03:14:15 PM » |
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Nice... I wish someone who was both Orthodox and familiar with Quenya would translate the Jesus prayer.  |
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"When looking at faults, use a mirror, not a telescope."
-Yazid Ibrahim
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TomS
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"Look At Me! Look At Me Now! " - Bono
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« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2004, 10:12:58 AM » |
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Frickin' GEEKS!
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Ebor
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« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2004, 11:04:59 AM » |
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Yeah, but we're Mostly Harmless. (Oops *that's* from a different set of books.)
<Grin>
Ebor
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"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis
The Katana of Reasoned Discussion
For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
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Donna Rose
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« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2004, 06:59:11 PM » |
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WOW that is so amazing, thanks Deacon Lance!!! I'm gonna be a REAL geek and learn em and pray em... |
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hmmmm...
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Donna Rose
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« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2004, 07:23:04 PM » |
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Hmmm ok geek alert... I was just copying these over, and I *think* the Glory Be is incomplete... I am no scholar in Quenya but I think I can assume that "Alcar" is "Glory," "i ataren" is "to the Father," "ar i yondon" is " and to the Son," "ar i airefean" is "and to the Holy Spirit" (hmm I wonder why these titles aren't capitalized in Elvish), which leaves only the words "tambe enge i et" for (in the Catholic version of the prayer) "as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end, amen." That is a huge thought for so few words in Elvish, and it seems Tolkien's translations of the other 2 prayers are pretty exact. And there also isn't punctuation or the word I am assuming is "Amen" ("n+ÃÂÂsie") at the end of the Glory Be, while the other two have these things... Deacon Lance, is there a link to where you got the translations? And if anyone with even the slightest interest in my observations would like to comment, I'm curious as to what the other Tolkien people think... |
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hmmmm...
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Ebor
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« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2004, 07:34:07 PM » |
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You're correct that "nasie" is "amen" Here is a linguistic analysis of the Lord's Prayer and the Hail Mary from "Ardalambion" or "Of the Tongues of Arda" http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/ataremma.rtfThe main page is http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/and here's the first 3 verses of Genesis: 1. I yessess+½ Eru ontan+½ Menel ar Cemen. 2 Cemen n+¬ cumna ar lusta, ar eng+½ morni+½ or i undum+½, nan Eruo S+¦l+½ will+½ or i neni. 3 Ar equ+½ Eru: "E+ñ c+ÃÂÂl+½!" Ar eng+½ c+ÃÂÂl+½. Enjoy! Ebor |
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"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis
The Katana of Reasoned Discussion
For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
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Deacon Lance
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« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2004, 10:29:52 PM » |
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Donna, Very astute. Unfortunately the Glory be is incomplete because the end could not be deciphered from the postcard Tolkein had jotted his translation down on. Here is an indepth analysis of the prayers: http://www.elvish.org/VT/sample.htmlFr. Deacon Lance |
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My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
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Arystarcus
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« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2004, 04:09:42 AM » |
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It is, in order, the Our Father, The Hail Mary, and the Glory Be in Elvish, translated by Tolkien himself. Thanks for posting these Deacon Lance, I had no idea they existed. How interesting!  Frickin' GEEKS! Hmmm ok geek alert... OK, now that we have these prayers in Elvish I think that we should now focus on obtaining them in Klingon and Romulan. I am also up for learning them in any other intergalactic language.  TomΣ - because I asked for them, am I now also a setting off the geek alarms?  Since I am being serious I am sure that I am!  In Christ, Aaron Another dimension new galaxy
Intergalactic planetary! |
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Ebor
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« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2004, 07:58:15 AM » |
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Ask and it shall be given unto you, Arystarchus. Here is the Lord's Prayer in Klingon done as a manuscript: http://www.dm.net/~karen/sca/scribes/klingon.html  Best I could do on the spur of the moment. Ebor |
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"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis
The Katana of Reasoned Discussion
For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
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ania
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« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2004, 10:10:26 AM » |
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Oy vey is all I can say... some people... ah, never mind...
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Now where were we? Oh yeah - the important thing was I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn’t have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...
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Donna Rose
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« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2004, 05:04:42 PM » |
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Hey what is Klingon and Romulan? And thanx for the links everyone! It will take a while for me to read through them, but they have been added to my LOTR computer stuff. |
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David
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« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2004, 05:24:01 PM » |
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Those are languages in Star Trek, Donna. |
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"When looking at faults, use a mirror, not a telescope."
-Yazid Ibrahim
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Arystarcus
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« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2004, 06:27:04 PM » |
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Thanks a lot Ebor! I really was not aware that people actually went through the trouble of translating prayers into fictional languages - interesting! Oy vey is all I can say... some people... ah, never mind... LOL Hey what is Klingon and Romulan? I think someone needs to head to their nearest Blockbuster and rent the entire Star Trek collection, ASAP!  In Christ, Aaron |
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Donna Rose
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« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2004, 07:19:18 PM » |
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LOL There is a distinction between Sci Fi and Fantasy, and I admit to being a Fantasy Geek...not a Sci Fi geek. I am NOT a Trekkie, and have no plans of becoming one...but kudos to the series for having fictional languages. Middle Earth is where it's at. |
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Brendan03
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« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2004, 08:06:42 PM » |
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"LOL There is a distinction between Sci Fi and Fantasy"
True to a point, it depends on the specific series I guess. Something like "Dune" is very close to fantasy even though it is formally sci-fi. Something like Star Wars, IMO, is really a fantasy story dressed up as sci fi. I think Star Trek is closer to being more purely sci fi, it has fewer fantasy elements to it.
As for Quenya and Klingon, the distinction really is that Quenya is a real language that was created by a linguistic scholar (Tolkien), whereas Klingon has been created, more or less, through the fans of the Star Trek genre and seems to be far less complete than Quenya.
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ExOrienteLux
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« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2004, 09:46:06 PM » |
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Wow. We are all such big geeks. And I'm probably the biggest geek of all of us, since I had heard of these about three years ago (way before I ever heard of Orthodoxy) and I could at one time do a fairly exact translation of most anything into Quenya.
And, since I've been kinda bored lately (even though Dostoevsky is a very good read), I'll see if I can't translate the Jesus Prayer. Shouldn't be all that hard, I should think.
As I ride off into the sunset, making Tom's nerd sirens go berserk,
Josh.
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Arise, O God! Judge the earth, for to Thee belong all the nations!
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David
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« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2004, 10:23:12 PM » |
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Should have a fantasy/sci-fi novel/movie/tv series that incorporates Esperanto for the "alien" language. It might make a few more people interested in the language.
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"When looking at faults, use a mirror, not a telescope."
-Yazid Ibrahim
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Ebor
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« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2004, 10:25:16 PM » |
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Actually, Klingon or "tlhIngan Hol" the name in that language was made by Marc Orkand a liguist and "Conlanger" or person who "CONstructs LANGuages" See here: http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Conlangerand http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Marc%20OkrandHe also make the "Atlantean" language in the Disney move "Atlantis: the Lost Empire" (a gorgeous and funny movie btw) Ebor (who does both SF and Fantasy) |
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"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis
The Katana of Reasoned Discussion
For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
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Ebor
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« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2004, 10:27:37 PM » |
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Forgot to mention: The Klingon Language Institute at http://www.kli.org/(Serious ST fans are "TrekkERS" not "TrekkIES" at least according to some) <Grin> Ebor |
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"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis
The Katana of Reasoned Discussion
For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
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Donna Rose
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« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2004, 11:22:05 PM » |
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"LOL There is a distinction between Sci Fi and Fantasy"
True to a point, it depends on the specific series I guess. Something like "Dune" is very close to fantasy even though it is formally sci-fi. Something like Star Wars, IMO, is really a fantasy story dressed up as sci fi. I think Star Trek is closer to being more purely sci fi, it has fewer fantasy elements to it. When I was in 10th grade, we had to do practice tests for the NYS Regents exam we were gonna hafta take in 11th grade, and one section had us read a piece of prose and then answer multiple choice on it. One of the practice prose pieces was this article some guy wrote on the difference between sci fi and fantasy. He said basically that Science Fiction incorporates some sort of actually scientific fact, and then exaggerates its potential, i.e. Jurassic Park (his example, not mine), whereas fantasy is devoid of any scientific foundation, i.e. Star Wars (again his example, not mine). He was very persuasive, I must admit. However, in the end I subscribe to my own definitions, which are largely aesthetic (but not completely, and I can't put my finger on the non-aesthetic element)...as far as aesthetics go, flying air craft and planets, etc. = sci fi, created lands that resemble our own planet X number of years ago, daggers, cloaks, etc. = fantasy. Perhaps the non-aesthetic element I refer to has something to do with the key idea of "hero"...in my experience fantasy is more conducive to include this key element, and if this is the case then I can agree that Star Wars is probably a fantasy dressed up like a sci fi flick. And along THOSE lines, I am a fantasy geek, not a sci fi geek. (Serious ST fans are "TrekkERS" not "TrekkIES" at least according to some) <Grin> My sincere apologies. |
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Donna Rose
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« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2004, 11:24:21 PM » |
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And, since I've been kinda bored lately (even though Dostoevsky is a very good read), I'll see if I can't translate the Jesus Prayer. Shouldn't be all that hard, I should think. Josh, This would be awesome! Do let us know what you come up with... ~*Donna |
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