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Author Topic: For fellow LOTR fans  (Read 2209 times) Average Rating: 0
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Deacon Lance
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« on: June 12, 2004, 12:41:49 PM »

It is, in order, the Our Father, The Hail Mary, and the Glory Be in Elvish, translated by Tolkien himself.



+ütaremma


+ütaremma i +½a han +½a GêÖ

na aire esselya GêÖ

aranielya na tuluva GêÖ

na care ind+¦melya

cemende tambe Erumande :

+ímen anta s+¡ra ilaur+½a massamma GêÖ

ar +ímen apsene +¦caremmar

s+¡v’ emme apsenet tien i +¦carer emmen.

+ülame tulya +¦saht+¡enna

mal +íme etelehta ulcullo : n+ísie :




Aia Maria


Aia Mar+¡a quanta Eruanno GêÖ

i H+¬ru aselye GêÖ

aistana elye im+¡ca n+¡si GêÖ

ar aistana i yave m+¦nalyo Y+¬sus :

Aire Mar+¡a Eruo ontaril

+í hyame r+ímen +¦carindor

s+¡ ar l+¦messe ya firuvamme : n+ísie :



Alcar i Ataren


Alcar i ataren ar i yondon ar i airefean tambe enge i et


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« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2004, 12:48:26 PM »

I had a feeling that there were some odd renderings in my Jerusalem Bible.

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« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2004, 01:08:36 PM »

Ah, you found that!  I think it's great.  Brushing up on your Quenya, Deacon Lance?

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« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2004, 03:14:15 PM »

Nice... I wish someone who was both Orthodox and familiar with Quenya would translate the Jesus prayer. Smiley
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« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2004, 10:12:58 AM »

Frickin' GEEKS!
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« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2004, 11:04:59 AM »

Yeah, but we're Mostly Harmless. (Oops *that's* from a different set of books.)

<Grin>

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« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2004, 06:59:11 PM »

WOW that is so amazing, thanks Deacon Lance!!! Smiley I'm gonna be a REAL geek and learn em and pray em...
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« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2004, 07:23:04 PM »

Hmmm ok geek alert...

I was just copying these over, and I *think* the Glory Be is incomplete...

I am no scholar in Quenya Smiley but I think I can assume that "Alcar" is "Glory," "i ataren" is "to the Father," "ar i yondon" is " and to the Son," "ar i airefean" is "and to the Holy Spirit" (hmm I wonder why these titles aren't capitalized in Elvish), which leaves only the words "tambe enge i et" for (in the Catholic version of the prayer) "as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end, amen." That is a huge thought for so few words in Elvish, and it seems Tolkien's translations of the other 2 prayers are pretty exact. And there also isn't punctuation or the word I am assuming is "Amen" ("n+ísie") at the end of the Glory Be, while the other two have these things...

Deacon Lance, is there a link to where you got the translations? Smiley And if anyone with even the slightest interest in my observations would like to comment, I'm curious as to what the other Tolkien people think...

Smiley
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« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2004, 07:34:07 PM »

You're correct that "nasie" is "amen"  Here is a linguistic analysis of the Lord's Prayer and the Hail Mary from "Ardalambion" or "Of the Tongues of Arda"

http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/ataremma.rtf

The main page is http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/

and here's the first 3 verses of Genesis:

1. I yessess+½ Eru ontan+½ Menel ar Cemen.

2 Cemen n+¬ cumna ar lusta, ar eng+½ morni+½ or i undum+½, nan Eruo S+¦l+½ will+½ or i neni.

3 Ar equ+½ Eru: "E+ñ c+íl+½!" Ar eng+½ c+íl+½.

Enjoy!

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« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2004, 10:29:52 PM »

Donna,

Very astute.  Unfortunately the Glory be is incomplete because the end could not be deciphered from the postcard Tolkein had jotted his translation down on.  Here is an indepth analysis of the prayers:
http://www.elvish.org/VT/sample.html

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« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2004, 04:09:42 AM »

Quote
It is, in order, the Our Father, The Hail Mary, and the Glory Be in Elvish, translated by Tolkien himself.

Thanks for posting these Deacon Lance, I had no idea they existed. How interesting!  Cheesy

Quote
Frickin' GEEKS!


Quote
Hmmm ok geek alert...

OK, now that we have these prayers in Elvish I think that we should now focus on obtaining them in Klingon and Romulan. I am also up for learning them in any other intergalactic language.  Grin

TomΣ - because I asked for them, am I now also a setting off the geek alarms?  Wink

Since I am being serious I am sure that I am!  Cool

In Christ,
Aaron


Another dimension new galaxy
Intergalactic planetary!
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« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2004, 07:58:15 AM »

Ask and it shall be given unto you, Arystarchus.  Here is the Lord's Prayer in Klingon done as a manuscript:

http://www.dm.net/~karen/sca/scribes/klingon.html

 Shocked Grin

Best I could do on the spur of the moment.

Ebor
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« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2004, 10:10:26 AM »

Oy vey is all I can say... some people... ah, never mind...
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« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2004, 05:04:42 PM »

Hey what is Klingon and Romulan?

And thanx for the links everyone! It will take a while for me to read through them, but they have been added to my LOTR computer stuff. Smiley
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« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2004, 05:24:01 PM »

Those are languages in Star Trek, Donna.  Smiley
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« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2004, 06:27:04 PM »

Quote
Ask and it shall be given unto you, Arystarchus.  Here is the Lord's Prayer in Klingon done as a manuscript:

http://www.dm.net/~karen/sca/scribes/klingon.html

Best I could do on the spur of the moment.

Thanks a lot Ebor!

I really was not aware that people actually went through the trouble of translating prayers into fictional languages - interesting!

Quote
Oy vey is all I can say... some people... ah, never mind...

LOL

Quote
Hey what is Klingon and Romulan?

 Shocked  Shocked  Shocked

I think someone needs to head to their nearest Blockbuster and rent the entire Star Trek collection, ASAP!  Tongue

In Christ,
Aaron
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« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2004, 07:19:18 PM »

LOL There is a distinction between Sci Fi and Fantasy, and I admit to being a Fantasy Geek...not a Sci Fi geek. Wink I am NOT a Trekkie, and have no plans of becoming one...but kudos to the series for having fictional languages. Smiley

Middle Earth is where it's at. Smiley

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« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2004, 08:06:42 PM »

"LOL There is a distinction between Sci Fi and Fantasy"

True to a point, it depends on the specific series I guess.  Something like "Dune" is very close to fantasy even though it is formally sci-fi.  Something like Star Wars, IMO, is really a fantasy story dressed up as sci fi.  I think Star Trek is closer to being more purely sci fi, it has fewer fantasy elements to it.

As for Quenya and Klingon, the distinction really is that Quenya is a real language that was created by a linguistic scholar (Tolkien), whereas Klingon has been created, more or less, through the fans of the Star Trek genre and seems to be far less complete than Quenya.
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« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2004, 09:46:06 PM »

Wow. We are all such big geeks.  And I'm probably the biggest geek of all of us, since I had heard of these about three years ago (way before I ever heard of Orthodoxy) and I could at one time do a fairly exact translation of most anything into Quenya.

And, since I've been kinda bored lately (even though Dostoevsky is a very good read), I'll see if I can't translate the Jesus Prayer.  Shouldn't be all that hard, I should think.

As I ride off into the sunset, making Tom's nerd sirens go berserk,

Josh.
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« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2004, 10:23:12 PM »

Should have a fantasy/sci-fi novel/movie/tv series that incorporates Esperanto for the "alien" language.  It might make a few more people interested in the language.
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« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2004, 10:25:16 PM »

Actually, Klingon or "tlhIngan Hol" the name in that language was made by  Marc Orkand a liguist and "Conlanger" or person who "CONstructs LANGuages"
See here:
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Conlanger

and

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Marc%20Okrand

He also make the "Atlantean" language in the Disney move "Atlantis: the Lost Empire" (a gorgeous and funny movie btw)

Ebor (who does both SF and Fantasy)
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« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2004, 10:27:37 PM »

Forgot to mention:  The Klingon Language Institute at

http://www.kli.org/

(Serious ST fans are "TrekkERS" not "TrekkIES" at least according to some)  <Grin>


Ebor
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« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2004, 11:22:05 PM »

Quote
"LOL There is a distinction between Sci Fi and Fantasy"

True to a point, it depends on the specific series I guess.  Something like "Dune" is very close to fantasy even though it is formally sci-fi.  Something like Star Wars, IMO, is really a fantasy story dressed up as sci fi.  I think Star Trek is closer to being more purely sci fi, it has fewer fantasy elements to it.

When I was in 10th grade, we had to do practice tests for the NYS Regents exam we were gonna hafta take in 11th grade, and one section had us read a piece of prose and then answer multiple choice on it. One of the practice prose pieces was this article some guy wrote on the difference between sci fi and fantasy. He said basically that Science Fiction incorporates some sort of actually scientific fact, and then exaggerates its potential, i.e. Jurassic Park (his example, not mine), whereas fantasy is devoid of any scientific foundation, i.e. Star Wars (again his example, not mine).

He was very persuasive, I must admit. However, in the end I subscribe to my own definitions, which are largely aesthetic (but not completely, and I can't put my finger on the non-aesthetic element)...as far as aesthetics go, flying air craft and planets, etc. = sci fi, created lands that resemble our own planet X number of years ago, daggers, cloaks, etc. = fantasy. Smiley

Perhaps the non-aesthetic element I refer to has something to do with the key idea of "hero"...in my experience fantasy is more conducive to include this key element, and if this is the case then I can agree that Star Wars is probably a fantasy dressed up like a sci fi flick. Smiley

And along THOSE lines, I am a fantasy geek, not a sci fi geek.

Quote
(Serious ST fans are "TrekkERS" not "TrekkIES" at least according to some)  <Grin>

My sincere apologies. Grin
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« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2004, 11:24:21 PM »

Quote
And, since I've been kinda bored lately (even though Dostoevsky is a very good read), I'll see if I can't translate the Jesus Prayer.  Shouldn't be all that hard, I should think.

Josh,

This would be awesome! Smiley Do let us know what you come up with...

~*Donna
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