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Author Topic: TRADITIONALIST ANGLICANS URGED NOT TO CLING TO ‘ILLUSION’  (Read 3026 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: May 29, 2011, 08:41:46 PM »

http://www.themessenger.com.au/News/20110203.htm

TRADITIONALIST ANGLICANS URGED NOT TO CLING TO ‘ILLUSION’
Traditionalist Anglicans who remain in the Anglican Church, against Pope Benedict XVI's offer of an Anglican ordinariate, are wasting "time and spiritual energy" clinging to a "dangerous illusion", said the Vatican's delegate for the Australian ordinariate, reports the Catholic News Service...
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« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2011, 08:59:21 PM »

An old friend of mine who was in the U.S. Navy told me that sometimes a useful response was

"Your comment has been noted and logged."         Undecided

This is addressed to the Australian Bishop, and not to you Robb, I assure you.

Ebor
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« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2011, 09:18:39 PM »

"Accept the invitation of the vicar of Christ on earth"
....Oh please.....
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« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2011, 12:11:46 AM »

Well, a lot of them have.

You can scoff all you want, but for some reason, quite a few of them have found something worthwhile there.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2011, 12:25:01 AM »

Well, a lot of them have.

You can scoff all you want, but for some reason, quite a few of them have found something worthwhile there.  Roll Eyes
Good luck to them, but from where I stand, out of the frying pan and into the fire is hardly "worthwhile".
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« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2011, 01:37:43 AM »

Well, a lot of them have.

You can scoff all you want, but for some reason, quite a few of them have found something worthwhile there.  Roll Eyes
Good luck to them, but from where I stand, out of the frying pan and into the fire is hardly "worthwhile".

Well, they are blessed that their pope is not an ultramontanist. And I think ultramontanism is dying out, just as Jansenism did.
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« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2011, 02:46:06 AM »

Whats the big difference between what the Pope is doing and what various EO's Churches have done in establishing Western Rite vicarites in order to pastoraly facilitate the return of dissatisfied Anglicans?

Non that I can see.  It must be remembered that this Anglican ordinariate was developed by the Vatican in response to the petitions of various continuing Anglican groups who wanted to join the Catholic Church, but not give up their whole patrimony (Just as the Orthodox Western rites were created to satisfy the pastoral needs of those western Christians who asked for them).  It's not as if the Vatican is either forcing or demanding that these Anglican groups must submit to them. They are only reminding them that, as of now the options for conservative Anglicans is becoming scarce and its best to jump aboard the ship while the going is good.  
« Last Edit: May 30, 2011, 02:46:44 AM by Robb » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2011, 04:41:59 AM »

Because Orthodoxy is the true faith with the fullness of the Holy Spirit and free of the heretical additions of the Church of Rome
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« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2011, 08:53:21 AM »

The situation is somewhat different in Britain but in the USA at least, at last check only a single ECUSA parish was taking this offer up (Mt. Calvary in Baltimore). From what I can tell it's most going to be TAC parishes and not even all of those. I suppose that a papal mouthpiece is required to say these sorts of things but it's pretty clear that the sale pitch has reached everyone it's going to reach.
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« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2011, 09:51:16 AM »

I think Church of the Good Shepherd (Rosemont, PA) is still technically in ECUSA and they seem to be strongly considering this ordinariate. Of course they are still in ECUSA, I suspect, for mainly legal reasons.
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« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2011, 07:52:39 PM »

"Accept the invitation of the vicar of Christ on earth"
....Oh please.....

Well, a lot of them have.

You can scoff all you want, but for some reason, quite a few of them have found something worthwhile there.  Roll Eyes
Good luck to them, but from where I stand, out of the frying pan and into the fire is hardly "worthwhile".

Because Orthodoxy is the true faith with the fullness of the Holy Spirit and free of the heretical additions of the Church of Rome
Ugh.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2011, 09:16:04 PM »

I think Church of the Good Shepherd (Rosemont, PA) is still technically in ECUSA and they seem to be strongly considering this ordinariate. Of course they are still in ECUSA, I suspect, for mainly legal reasons.

Their status at the moment is bizarre, as the rector is also theoretically a bishop in a continuing church.
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« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2011, 10:14:27 PM »

http://www.themessenger.com.au/News/20110203.htm

TRADITIONALIST ANGLICANS URGED NOT TO CLING TO ‘ILLUSION’
Traditionalist Anglicans who remain in the Anglican Church, against Pope Benedict XVI's offer of an Anglican ordinariate, are wasting "time and spiritual energy" clinging to a "dangerous illusion", said the Vatican's delegate for the Australian ordinariate, reports the Catholic News Service...

This will certainly be a relief to many traditional Catholics.

See http://catholiccartoonblog.blogspot.com/2009/10/fail.html
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« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2011, 10:54:19 PM »

Well, a lot of them have.

You can scoff all you want, but for some reason, quite a few of them have found something worthwhile there.  Roll Eyes

If only Orthodox Christianity was more well-known in the west!  Then we'd see many people coming to the original faith, and not just the one that claims to be original, taking advantage of people's general ignorance of Christian history.

just sayin'...
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« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2011, 11:21:13 PM »

haters gonna hate
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« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2011, 04:01:51 PM »

On my spiritual journey, when I got to the fork in the road at 1054....I took it.  Cool

Seriously, from what I've read it is just a few Anglicans who are taking Rome up on its offer.  Many even in the Anglican Church in American (the American branch of the TAC) are staying put, and are in fact seeking greater unity with the other Continuing Anglican jurisdictions.
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« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2011, 05:13:28 PM »

Yeah, I don't hold much hope for the mass return of Anglicans to Catholicism anytime soon.  They are just so used to doing their own thing and making up rules as they go along that I really doubt many Anglicans will wish to join such a structured and disciplined organization as the RCC.  I hold higher hopes for an eventual mass reunion of Orthodox with Catholicism then I do for the Anglican communion.

Seriously, from what I've read it is just a few Anglicans who are taking Rome up on its offer.  Many even in the Anglican Church in American (the American branch of the TAC) are staying put, and are in fact seeking greater unity with the other Continuing Anglican jurisdictions.

Yes, I bet they can't wait to "align" themselves with this:

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hn0wYkXRj9Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 05:14:10 PM by Robb » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2011, 05:34:56 PM »

Well, a lot of them have.

You can scoff all you want, but for some reason, quite a few of them have found something worthwhile there.  Roll Eyes

If only Orthodox Christianity was more well-known in the west!  Then we'd see many people coming to the original faith, and not just the one that claims to be original, taking advantage of people's general ignorance of Christian history.

just sayin'...


No you wouldn't. Anglicans have the same mindset and presuppositions Catholics do. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
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« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2011, 05:46:10 PM »

Well, a lot of them have.

You can scoff all you want, but for some reason, quite a few of them have found something worthwhile there.  Roll Eyes

If only Orthodox Christianity was more well-known in the west!  Then we'd see many people coming to the original faith, and not just the one that claims to be original, taking advantage of people's general ignorance of Christian history.

just sayin'...


No you wouldn't. Anglicans have the same mindset and presuppositions Catholics do. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

We Catholics are the height of human religious development.  You Orthodox have some positive traits, but you'll unfortunately never get very far in the modern world unless you start to make some modernizations and embrace modern idea about mans weaknesses and concentrate less on the writting of medevil monks and Byzantine scholars.  I don't mean to offend, but you all know what I write is the truth.
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« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2011, 05:51:46 PM »

The Spirit is descended!
Well, a lot of them have.

You can scoff all you want, but for some reason, quite a few of them have found something worthwhile there.  Roll Eyes

If only Orthodox Christianity was more well-known in the west!  Then we'd see many people coming to the original faith, and not just the one that claims to be original, taking advantage of people's general ignorance of Christian history.

just sayin'...


No you wouldn't. Anglicans have the same mindset and presuppositions Catholics do. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

We Catholics are the height of human religious development.  You Orthodox have some positive traits, but you'll unfortunately never get very far in the modern world unless you start to make some modernizations and embrace modern idea about mans weaknesses and concentrate less on the writting of medevil monks and Byzantine scholars.  I don't mean to offend, but you all know what I write is the truth.
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« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2011, 07:29:45 PM »

^^

That is the pinnacle of class. Case closed. Robb must be proud.

Quote
We Catholics are the height of human religious development.  You Orthodox have some positive traits, but you'll unfortunately never get very far in the modern world unless you start to make some modernizations and embrace modern idea about mans weaknesses and concentrate less on the writting of medevil monks and Byzantine scholars.  I don't mean to offend, but you all know what I write is the truth.



Robb, you yourself were Orthodox until you apostatized a few weeks ago. So let's cut the nonsense. You know it's rubbish just as well as we do.
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« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2011, 08:28:27 PM »

Robb, you yourself were Orthodox until you apostatized a few weeks ago. So let's cut the nonsense. You know it's rubbish just as well as we do.

I know you to be one of the less inflammatory posters here, so forgive me for asking this: but is this true?

If so, Robb, I am not saying you made a wrong decision (I really ain't), but could such a large change, if it were, be playing a hand in your mood?

Hope I am not nagging you on the issue, but I've seen too many die or disorder their lives due to depression.

Feel free to tell me in whatever language to . . . you know.
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« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2011, 09:30:58 PM »



Flattery will get you nowhere.

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« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2011, 09:34:13 PM »

We Catholics are the height of human religious development.  You Orthodox have some positive traits, but you'll unfortunately never get very far in the modern world unless you start to make some modernizations and embrace modern idea about mans weaknesses and concentrate less on the writting of medevil monks and Byzantine scholars.

Is MeDevil anything like MeMonster?
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« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2011, 09:36:04 PM »

We Catholics are the height of human religious development.  You Orthodox have some positive traits, but you'll unfortunately never get very far in the modern world unless you start to make some modernizations and embrace modern idea about mans weaknesses and concentrate less on the writting of medevil monks and Byzantine scholars.

Is MeDevil anything like MeMonster?

Either he needs not to quit his day job, or I need to quit mine.
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« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2011, 09:57:24 PM »

Well, a lot of them have.

You can scoff all you want, but for some reason, quite a few of them have found something worthwhile there.  Roll Eyes

If only Orthodox Christianity was more well-known in the west!  Then we'd see many people coming to the original faith, and not just the one that claims to be original, taking advantage of people's general ignorance of Christian history.

just sayin'...
You are certainly growing into a good little Netodox Christian.
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« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2011, 10:23:02 PM »

Well, a lot of them have.

You can scoff all you want, but for some reason, quite a few of them have found something worthwhile there.  Roll Eyes

If only Orthodox Christianity was more well-known in the west!  Then we'd see many people coming to the original faith, and not just the one that claims to be original, taking advantage of people's general ignorance of Christian history.

just sayin'...
You are certainly growing into a good little Netodox Christian.

I was going to comment on the tone of the post myself. I seriously doubt the RC folks I know (again I ain't privy to whatever happens in the world of the da Vinci Code) ain't trying to take advantage of anyone's ignorance.

To say it again, most RCs I know think Orthodoxy is a Greek Catholic Church with gaudy gyro festivals where they raffle off cars.

 
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« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2011, 10:30:00 PM »

Well, a lot of them have.

You can scoff all you want, but for some reason, quite a few of them have found something worthwhile there.  Roll Eyes

If only Orthodox Christianity was more well-known in the west!  Then we'd see many people coming to the original faith, and not just the one that claims to be original, taking advantage of people's general ignorance of Christian history.

just sayin'...


No you wouldn't. Anglicans have the same mindset and presuppositions Catholics do. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Results may vary.  Anglicans (Anglo-Catholics in specific) tend to be very big on the "undivided Church".  Those that tend more toward Roman Catholic practices are going to cross the Tiber.  Those who emphasize "catholicity" can go either way.  Those who tend to shut their mouths on "and the Son" (they do exist) are more likely to come our way.  And of course there's always the case of the Anglican who converts to one, becomes disillusioned with the reality, and goes to the other (or right back where they came from).

We'd probably be getting a few parishes coming our way if the two Western Rites were publicized as aggressively as the Anglican Ordinariate has been, what with the discontent over the problems of the Anglican Communion.  You can consider that a good thing or a bad thing (is it better to convert because you're dissatisfied with your current place or because you agree with the Church you're converting to) but Trevor's not far off.

If only Orthodox Christianity was more well-known in the west!  Then we'd see many people coming to the original faith, and not just the one that claims to be original, taking advantage of people's general ignorance of Christian history.

just sayin'...
You are certainly growing into a good little Netodox Christian.

Netodox?  I doubt it.  A tad over-exuberant as teenagers are wont?  Most likely.  Wrong (as to most western Christians not really knowing what Orthodoxy is and perhaps converting there instead)?  Not at all.
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« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2011, 10:33:38 PM »

Wrong (as to most western Christians not really knowing what Orthodoxy is and perhaps converting there instead)?  Not at all.

The tone suggested it was calculated. Do you expect the RCC to offer catechetical classes in Orthodoxy before letting folks convert?
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« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2011, 10:54:03 PM »

Wrong (as to most western Christians not really knowing what Orthodoxy is and perhaps converting there instead)?  Not at all.

The tone suggested it was calculated. Do you expect the RCC to offer catechetical classes in Orthodoxy before letting folks convert?

I agree the tone was wrong, but I also take into account Trevor's posting history (a young teenager who was himself on the verge of converting to the RCC before he discovered Orthodoxy and vacillated between the two until he converted to Orthodoxy).  Most devout Roman Catholics sincerely believe their church is THE living expression of Apostolic Tradition, you will get no argument from me there.  Of course, Western Protestants would benefit from knowing of the existence and claims of Orthodox Christianity if they are looking to convert to an Apostolic Church, but it's not the Roman Catholic Church's responsibility to do so.  That would be like asking the CIA to tell prospective employees of all the cool benefits those guys in MI6 offer.
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« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2011, 11:21:11 PM »

Wrong (as to most western Christians not really knowing what Orthodoxy is and perhaps converting there instead)?  Not at all.

The tone suggested it was calculated. Do you expect the RCC to offer catechetical classes in Orthodoxy before letting folks convert?

I agree the tone was wrong, but I also take into account Trevor's posting history (a young teenager who was himself on the verge of converting to the RCC before he discovered Orthodoxy and vacillated between the two until he converted to Orthodoxy).  Most devout Roman Catholics sincerely believe their church is THE living expression of Apostolic Tradition, you will get no argument from me there.  Of course, Western Protestants would benefit from knowing of the existence and claims of Orthodox Christianity if they are looking to convert to an Apostolic Church, but it's not the Roman Catholic Church's responsibility to do so.  That would be like asking the CIA to tell prospective employees of all the cool benefits those guys in MI6 offer.

I'm with you in spirit. Just here and sometimes at the parish amid zealous inquirers, I just feel RCs get a raw deal. Or rather than focusing on Orthodoxy, the focus is on how it ain't RC.

And I am the first to hold their feet to the fire for the criminal conspiracy to aid and abet child molesters.

But on the ground level . . . My country would be way poorer off if not for the work of RC women and the RCC's coffers for charity.

Again in spirit I am with you . . .
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« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2011, 11:45:57 PM »

Actually I was Orthodox ten years ago and rejoined the RCC in 2002.  I was, for a while considering returning to the OC, but never officially made the jump over to your side.  It has actually been over a year since I officially decided to stay with the RCC, only I delayed announcing it on this mesage board for some time until I was requested to publically do so by the moderators.  

I probably always believed that the RCC was the true Church, even when Orthodox.  I used to secretly think "Well, Catholicism is probably true, but Orthodoxy has a cooler liturgy and real beeswax candles to boot!"  This is the basic reason that I decided to return to the RCC, because I felt that my Orthodox conversion was not sincere, but only a form of running away from problems that I saw plaguing Catholicism.

I admit that my above comments were kind of unflattering and nasty.  I'm sorry things have been rough for me for the past couple week, but hopefully they'll get better.  As a Catholic, the Vatican Council II called me to abstain from polemics and embrace the ecumenical dialogue with my brother Christians in charity, truth, and love.  I obviously have failed to do so in my previous post.  Vatican II and her spirit have called me, as an RC to be better then this and I'll try to be from now on.
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« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2011, 11:49:31 PM »

Robb, you yourself were Orthodox until you apostatized a few weeks ago. So let's cut the nonsense. You know it's rubbish just as well as we do.

I know you to be one of the less inflammatory posters here, so forgive me for asking this: but is this true?

If so, Robb, I am not saying you made a wrong decision (I really ain't), but could such a large change, if it were, be playing a hand in your mood?

Hope I am not nagging you on the issue, but I've seen too many die or disorder their lives due to depression.

Feel free to tell me in whatever language to . . . you know.

Yes it's true. And it's happened before. See his first post: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,22151.msg337044.html#msg337044

It is not with joy that I call him out when he is obviously having a difficult and confusing time. But the shrillness needs to stop.

Edit: thank you for the above post Robb. I think everyone appreciates your contributions, but sometimes the tone is a bit much. Let's all be charitable and decent to each other.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 11:51:30 PM by bogdan » Logged
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« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2011, 12:22:37 AM »


Netodox?  I doubt it.  A tad over-exuberant as teenagers are wont?  Most likely.  Wrong (as to most western Christians not really knowing what Orthodoxy is and perhaps converting there instead)?  Not at all.

To speak quite frankly (if you don't mind), that's your fault, not ours. Get out of the Greek-Slavic ghetto and start opening up and evangelizing, and maybe more people will take you seriously. Ever notice how the secularist world is constantly condemning the Pope and the Catholic Church for her "outmoded" moral teachings but you Orthodox teach the same things but are ignored (or at best, condescended to)? To them, your "spiritual leader of the world's Orthodox Christians" EP Bartholomew is like the trendy/cool Dalai Lama's little brother.

 
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 12:26:37 AM by lubeltri » Logged
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« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2011, 12:25:59 AM »


Netodox?  I doubt it.  A tad over-exuberant as teenagers are wont?  Most likely.  Wrong (as to most western Christians not really knowing what Orthodoxy is and perhaps converting there instead)?  Not at all.

That's your fault, not ours. Get out of the Greek-Slavic ghetto and start opening up and evangelizing, and maybe people will take you seriously. Ever notice how the secularist world is constantly condemning the Pope and the Catholic Church for her "outmoded" moral teachings but you Orthodox teach the same things but are ignored (or at best, condescended to)? To them, your "spiritual leader of the world's Orthodox Christians" EP Bartholomew is like the trendy/cool Dalai Lama's little brother.

 

Hysteria much? Didn't you read the above posts?

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« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2011, 12:32:16 AM »



Hysteria much? Didn't you read the above posts?



Yep, I did.  Smiley

I would add that it shouldn't be a surprise when more Western Christians join the Catholics than the Orthodox. As I've heard from many Orthodox here, the scope of the Pope is not even close to being the only thing dividing our communions. There is a lot in the Western theological and spiritual tradition that you consider heterodox. The filioque is the tip of the iceberg for you. It makes sense that a lot of these Westerners would not want to give that up and become Easterners (even "WRO" have to do this somewhat). For most high-church Anglicans, they are leaving over apostasy over moral teachings rather than problems with Western theology or spirituality.
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« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2011, 01:59:46 AM »


We Catholics are the height of human religious development.  You Orthodox have some positive traits, but you'll unfortunately never get very far in the modern world unless you start to make some modernizations and embrace modern idea about mans weaknesses and concentrate less on the writting of medevil monks and Byzantine scholars.  I don't mean to offend, but you all know what I write is the truth.

For every post like this, there is a video on Youtube to prove you wrong:

http://youtu.be/7aLLsJa9xYY

So you can keep your "modern" innovations. I'll take Byzantine chant and Slavic polyphonic chant any day of the week.

On a closing note, I give you not only Liturgical Dance, but Liturgical Dance set to Kenny G!

http://youtu.be/my89A3zFOvM
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« Reply #37 on: June 17, 2011, 05:58:06 AM »

The Spirit is descended!


Hysteria much? Didn't you read the above posts?



Yep, I did.  Smiley

I would add that it shouldn't be a surprise when more Western Christians join the Catholics than the Orthodox. As I've heard from many Orthodox here, the scope of the Pope is not even close to being the only thing dividing our communions. There is a lot in the Western theological and spiritual tradition that you consider heterodox. The filioque is the tip of the iceberg for you. It makes sense that a lot of these Westerners would not want to give that up and become Easterners (even "WRO" have to do this somewhat).
No, they don't.  Such a statement makes sense only if you swallow the canonical fiction upon which that Vatican predicates its "unions," that the Orthodox (and in the case of the Chaldean/Assyrians, the Nestorian) differences with the Latin heresies is "cultural," not theological.

Filoque isn't a translation misunderstanding.  Although the Reformers could make an argument in its favor (still wrong), the vast majority of Protestants haven't a clue, and consequently no idea how to defend their confession of it.  Sort of like how they just take their Biblical canon with no self reflection.

Given that the Western Old Catholic, many AngloCatholics and others have dumped the filioque while outside of Orthodox communion, for the vast majority this isn't keeping them out.

For most high-church Anglicans, they are leaving over apostasy over moral teachings rather than problems with Western theology or spirituality.
If they aren't basing their morality on theology and spirituality, they aren't ready for Orthodoxy.
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« Reply #38 on: June 17, 2011, 06:01:07 AM »

The Spirit is descended!

We Catholics are the height of human religious development.  You Orthodox have some positive traits, but you'll unfortunately never get very far in the modern world unless you start to make some modernizations and embrace modern idea about mans weaknesses and concentrate less on the writting of medevil monks and Byzantine scholars.  I don't mean to offend, but you all know what I write is the truth.

For every post like this, there is a video on Youtube to prove you wrong:

http://youtu.be/7aLLsJa9xYY

So you can keep your "modern" innovations. I'll take Byzantine chant and Slavic polyphonic chant any day of the week.
  Gregorian chant and Mozarabic chant can do as well, but then that is based on medieval monks and scholars.
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« Reply #39 on: June 17, 2011, 10:05:13 AM »

Actually I was Orthodox ten years ago and rejoined the RCC in 2002.  I was, for a while considering returning to the OC, but never officially made the jump over to your side.  It has actually been over a year since I officially decided to stay with the RCC, only I delayed announcing it on this mesage board for some time until I was requested to publically do so by the moderators.  

I am glad you clarified that. From some of your recent posts, I was under the impression that you had just recently switched from being Orthodox to being Catholic.
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« Reply #40 on: June 17, 2011, 11:11:07 AM »

The Spirit is descended!

We Catholics are the height of human religious development.  You Orthodox have some positive traits, but you'll unfortunately never get very far in the modern world unless you start to make some modernizations and embrace modern idea about mans weaknesses and concentrate less on the writting of medevil monks and Byzantine scholars.  I don't mean to offend, but you all know what I write is the truth.

For every post like this, there is a video on Youtube to prove you wrong:

http://youtu.be/7aLLsJa9xYY

So you can keep your "modern" innovations. I'll take Byzantine chant and Slavic polyphonic chant any day of the week.
  Gregorian chant and Mozarabic chant can do as well, but then that is based on medieval monks and scholars.

The problem with them is that they are so medievvvvvvvvvvaaaaaalRoll Eyes
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« Reply #41 on: June 17, 2011, 11:14:01 AM »


Netodox?  I doubt it.  A tad over-exuberant as teenagers are wont?  Most likely.  Wrong (as to most western Christians not really knowing what Orthodoxy is and perhaps converting there instead)?  Not at all.

That's your fault, not ours. Get out of the Greek-Slavic ghetto and start opening up and evangelizing, and maybe people will take you seriously. Ever notice how the secularist world is constantly condemning the Pope and the Catholic Church for her "outmoded" moral teachings but you Orthodox teach the same things but are ignored (or at best, condescended to)? To them, your "spiritual leader of the world's Orthodox Christians" EP Bartholomew is like the trendy/cool Dalai Lama's little brother.

Hysteria much? Didn't you read the above posts?

I think there definitely is a problem with regard to the Orthodox being, if you will, relevant. But it must also be remember that many of those who want the Orthodox to "open up" have a problem with respect to earning their trust.

See http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,36642.0.html
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« Reply #42 on: June 17, 2011, 11:32:16 AM »


Netodox?  I doubt it.  A tad over-exuberant as teenagers are wont?  Most likely.  Wrong (as to most western Christians not really knowing what Orthodoxy is and perhaps converting there instead)?  Not at all.

That's your fault, not ours. Get out of the Greek-Slavic ghetto and start opening up and evangelizing, and maybe people will take you seriously. Ever notice how the secularist world is constantly condemning the Pope and the Catholic Church for her "outmoded" moral teachings but you Orthodox teach the same things but are ignored (or at best, condescended to)? To them, your "spiritual leader of the world's Orthodox Christians" EP Bartholomew is like the trendy/cool Dalai Lama's little brother.

Hysteria much? Didn't you read the above posts?

I think there definitely is a problem with regard to the Orthodox being, if you will, relevant. But it must also be remember that many of those who want the Orthodox to "open up" have a problem with respect to earning their trust.

See http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,36642.0.html

For some reason, I am having a hard time remembering Christ or any of his Apostles commanding others to be relevant.

I really don't understand the point of this thread nor the tone some EOs have toward Anglicans being more likely to move to RCism, not because the RC is more relevant but because it is more prevalent.

 
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 11:32:36 AM by orthonorm » Logged

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« Reply #43 on: June 19, 2011, 06:06:55 PM »

I'm an Anglican. I would become Orthodox before becoming Roman.

I would be Orthodox if there was a church close enough to really participate in.

Dave
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« Reply #44 on: July 02, 2011, 05:18:01 AM »

Honestly, I see ecusa eventually turning into either some kind of weird combination of universalist Unitarian-esque pseudo-religious club, or else a general seeker sensitive, prosperity theology kind of thing.

There comes a Point on the Anglo-catholic spectrum where any distinction from Rome is just a matter of nuance, and maybe a bit of heebie Jeebies at papal authority.

Then there are the continuing anglicans, e.g. The ACNA, who I think orthodox bishops need to really be talking to. There are a lot of issues to be worked out, but it was going to an Anglican seminary that led me to orthodoxy.

Faithful Anglicans are terrified at the direction ecusa is going, and while they may not be going in droves, plenty of individuals and some whole parishes are taking the pope up on his offer.
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« Reply #45 on: July 02, 2011, 11:01:12 AM »

They would find a welcome home in the AWRV!
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« Reply #46 on: July 02, 2011, 08:24:57 PM »

I think Church of the Good Shepherd (Rosemont, PA) is still technically in ECUSA and they seem to be strongly considering this ordinariate. Of course they are still in ECUSA, I suspect, for mainly legal reasons.

Is Father Kelly still there? My husband and I actually took a NFP class once, and met him and his wife in it! Based on his views at the time, I'm surprised he has not already joined the RCC (or has he)?
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