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Author Topic: prosphora time!!!!!  (Read 3769 times) Average Rating: 0
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Tikhon.of.Colorado
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« on: May 26, 2011, 11:14:48 PM »

Well, in June (as well as August) I'll be making the prosphora that will become the Body of Christ at Church.  I'm so very honored to be able to do this.  I've been given a recipe, and gotten the three appropriate  can sizes to cut the loafs out of the dough with.  I also have a seal, which my parish gave me free of Charge (and I'm told the wooden, hand-maid ones are pretty expensive).

first, I'd like to ask for your prayers.

secondly, I was wondering:

My wonderful friend who first took me to the Orthodox Church (whom I'm now trying to get to come back again) had a Grandmother who made the prosphora for a number of years.  She always had me call her "Baba", as did all of us kids.  I still refer to her as "my Baba".  Anyway, she used to have an icon in the kitchen and chant psalms (read the Bible in her later years) when the prosphora was baking. She also requited absolute silence be kept in the house while they were being prepared. 

Are these practices worth using? 

Also, would it be apropreat to play some Church music CD's in the background as they bake?

Lastly, how do you feel about freezing the prosphora?  Some in my parish do this, but they appear at liturgy as tough and sometimes a little but mushy in the middle.  Do you freeze them?

thanks!  And, again, please pray for me!  I'm very nervous that I won't do this right!
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« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2011, 11:36:59 PM »

You must be an old widow to bake it.
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« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2011, 11:39:13 PM »

You must be an old widow to bake it.

really?  My parish does not practice this.  our reader and his wife, as well as several other young mothers bake the prosphora.  Is there a cannon somewhere that says that?
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« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2011, 11:41:30 PM »


You do not!

I've seen young men (seminarians) baking them...they were hardly old widows.

At our church, only our priest bakes them...fresh each week.

However, I have heard that in other parishes, people bake them and bring them to church with them as an "offering" on Sunday.

Trevor, if you do this....do it with the utmost respect.  Yes, say prayers (the Lord's Prayer), etc.

...and wear a hair net!

Wink

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« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2011, 11:43:10 PM »


You do not!

I've seen young men (seminarians) baking them...they were hardly old widows.

At our church, only our priest bakes them...fresh each week.

However, I have heard that in other parishes, people bake them and bring them to church with them as an "offering" on Sunday.

Trevor, if you do this....do it with the utmost respect.  Yes, say prayers (the Lord's Prayer), etc.

...and wear a hair net!

Wink



good thinking.  It will give me a chance to wear my fancy chef's hat I had to buy for cooking class at school  Wink
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« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2011, 11:49:03 PM »

You must be an old widow to bake it.

Only those widows who first sleep with three turnips under the pillow for three nights; to represent the Holy Trinity and ward off lycanthopes.
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« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2011, 11:53:21 PM »

You must be an old widow to bake it.

Only those widows who first sleep with three turnips under the pillow for three nights; to represent the Holy Trinity and ward off lycanthopes.

for a second I thought you were serious Cheesy
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 11:53:40 PM by trevor72694 » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2011, 11:58:27 PM »

for a second I thought you were serious

I am dead serious. You don't want werewolves eating the prosphora, but this is quite common in Holy Romania were the devil is always at work.
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« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2011, 11:59:13 PM »

My priest and I are the only ones who bake the prosphora at our parish.  Like everything Orthodox, there are variations.  It is always best to use fresh prosphora.  I don't like using one that was made much earlier than the morning before the Liturgy.  However, this cannot always be done.  My priest is in Serbia for five weeks and I am working a refueling outage at the plant (9hrs evening shift, 7 days a week) which does not leave me much time for baking.  The priest froze one prosphora (we use a single large loaf, Greek Style) and I baked one yesterday and froze it.  Hopefully, I will have time Saturday to bake a fresh one. However, it is also likely that I will have a funeral on Saturday, so I will probably be giving the visiting priest one of the frozen ones after it thaws.

As to music and ritual, you can be as pious as you want.  You should be mindful of what you are doing, but keep in mind that in the earliest days people brought bread offerings into the church to maintain the clergy, and one was chosen for communion.  Most of the traditions came at some later date.  I don't think that there is a set way to do things by the canons, but I do know that some priest's service books contian some pretty strict words about it (ie, the newest ROCOR priest's service book).  As you have probably seen by some of my posts, I am not a cultic "ask your priest about everything" person.  However, this is one case to where I believe it is very important.  It is the priest who will be saying the prayers that bring the Holy Spirit down to change the bread into Christ's body.  I would bake it however he tells you to, and with whatever ritual that he suggests.
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« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2011, 12:10:46 AM »

for a second I thought you were serious

I am dead serious. You don't want werewolves eating the prosphora, but this is quite common in Holy Romania were the devil is always at work.
You can say whatever, but I'm not kidding: only old widows were allowed to bake 'prescuri" in a parish. Now I fully understand why they let basically everybody-so that they feel included, my god-yet there are plenty of places where it's still as I say.
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« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2011, 12:21:31 AM »

Now I fully understand why they let basically everybody-so that they feel included

Maybe some people aren't trying to feel anything special about themselves, they're just trying to help out in the parish responsibilities. Maybe you could volunteer by collecting the candle change and counting it.
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« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2011, 12:51:25 AM »

Now I fully understand why they let basically everybody-so that they feel included

Maybe some people aren't trying to feel anything special about themselves, they're just trying to help out in the parish responsibilities. Maybe you could volunteer by collecting the candle change and counting it.

this is true, Augustin.  I and one other was chosen because, out of the four women doing the baking, two don't attend more than once a month anymore, and our priest's wife will be moving with Father's family.  they needed us.  Not that I don't want to do this, but if they'd called out asking "who wants to bake prosphra?!"  I would not have been the first to raise my hand Cheesy  .  Even so, I'm honored. It doesn't make me feel anymore included, just glad that I can be there when they need me.
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« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2011, 05:29:14 AM »

for a second I thought you were serious

I am dead serious. You don't want werewolves eating the prosphora, but this is quite common in Holy Romania were the devil is always at work.
You can say whatever, but I'm not kidding: only old widows were allowed to bake 'prescuri" in a parish. Now I fully understand why they let basically everybody-so that they feel included, my god-yet there are plenty of places where it's still as I say.

I can confirm this: in Romania you have to be a WOMAN and OLD and, most importantly, a good WIDOW (and also go to church often, try to live a holy life, etc) in order to do this. Why? The idea is to have it done by people who are no longer tempted by sex. That is why you'll never see young people do this, even if they're not married and try to live a holy life. Priests or, horror, their wives, don't do it. Young people can do other things, aside from baking the most pure offer that human hands can offer to God....or so is the idea. And I think it is so everywhere in the old Ortodox world.
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« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2011, 07:18:56 AM »

Because sex is the only and gravest sin.
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« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2011, 07:29:00 AM »

Because sex is the only and gravest sin.

Well, not necessarily, but a sin that taints both your body and your soul, against which St. Paul spoke particularly strong against, remember, your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, therefore any sin that man does outside his body is not as bad as the one he does with his body...

But in the old days, , so sex was seen, and so it still is in much of Eastern European Orthodoxy, even sex within marriage -- as making you somehow unfit for the direct service of God. <Shrug> And that is why baking of prosophora was reserved to old widows.
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« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2011, 07:42:21 AM »

I apologise for being a bit antagonistic and thank you for your charitable response.

I just don't understand how a married and sexually active person can stand in the holy place and touch the Precious Body of the Lord but a celibate teenager or 20-something can't bake prosphora.
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« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2011, 09:07:05 AM »

Christ is risen!
Well, in June (as well as August) I'll be making the prosphora that will become the Body of Christ at Church.  I'm so very honored to be able to do this.  I've been given a recipe, and gotten the three appropriate  can sizes to cut the loafs out of the dough with.  I also have a seal, which my parish gave me free of Charge (and I'm told the wooden, hand-maid ones are pretty expensive).

first, I'd like to ask for your prayers.

secondly, I was wondering:

My wonderful friend who first took me to the Orthodox Church (whom I'm now trying to get to come back again) had a Grandmother who made the prosphora for a number of years.  She always had me call her "Baba", as did all of us kids.  I still refer to her as "my Baba".  Anyway, she used to have an icon in the kitchen and chant psalms (read the Bible in her later years) when the prosphora was baking. She also requited absolute silence be kept in the house while they were being prepared.  

Are these practices worth using?  

Also, would it be apropreat to play some Church music CD's in the background as they bake?

Lastly, how do you feel about freezing the prosphora?  Some in my parish do this, but they appear at liturgy as tough and sometimes a little but mushy in the middle.  Do you freeze them?

thanks!  And, again, please pray for me!  I'm very nervous that I won't do this right!
Since the world supply of old Romanian widows is not enough to meet demand, anyone can fill in (I suspect the tradition of letting old widows bake it was to make them feel included-old widows being very susceptible to being forgetten, alienated and isolated).  In Egypt even men bake it.

Have you baked bread before?  If not, you may want to do a "secular" trial run, not doing any of the pious customs and bake a loaf that you do not intend to give, in order to make sure you get the hang of the mechanics, so you can put more iinto the piety without worrying about the baking part when you actually make one to offer.

All those pious customs are laudable.  One does not make prosphera by bread alone.

We keep a "fresh" supply of frozen loaves, just in case.
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« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2011, 09:10:00 AM »

Hristos a inviat!
Because sex is the only and gravest sin.

Well, not necessarily, but a sin that taints both your body and your soul, against which St. Paul spoke particularly strong against, remember, your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, therefore any sin that man does outside his body is not as bad as the one he does with his body...

But in the old days, , so sex was seen, and so it still is in much of Eastern European Orthodoxy, even sex within marriage -- as making you somehow unfit for the direct service of God. <Shrug> And that is why baking of prosophora was reserved to old widows.
and what did they do with the married man who called on the Holy Spirit to make the  prosphora the Body of Christ?

Such ideas.  We had to take on the Vatican over such things.

Btw, did old widows have to tread the grapes to make the wine?
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« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2011, 09:16:48 AM »

Hristos a inviat!
for a second I thought you were serious

I am dead serious. You don't want werewolves eating the prosphora, but this is quite common in Holy Romania were the devil is always at work.
You can say whatever, but I'm not kidding: only old widows were allowed to bake 'prescuri" in a parish. Now I fully understand why they let basically everybody-so that they feel included, my god-yet there are plenty of places where it's still as I say.

I can confirm this: in Romania you have to be a WOMAN and OLD and, most importantly, a good WIDOW (and also go to church often, try to live a holy life, etc) in order to do this. Why? The idea is to have it done by people who are no longer tempted by sex. That is why you'll never see young people do this, even if they're not married and try to live a holy life. Priests or, horror, their wives, don't do it. Young people can do other things, aside from baking the most pure offer that human hands can offer to God....or so is the idea. And I think it is so everywhere in the old Ortodox world.
LOL. In Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem we have no such ideas, and you can't get older in the Orthodox world, or older in the world, period.  Heck, even among the Copts, who can frighten even the Russians with their asceticism, have married men who bake it.
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« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2011, 10:32:21 AM »

Well, not necessarily, but a sin that taints both your body and your soul, against which St. Paul spoke particularly strong against, remember, your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, therefore any sin that man does outside his body is not as bad as the one he does with his body...

The author of the treatise to the Hebrews says that the marriage bed should be and thus can be undefiled.

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« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2011, 10:37:55 AM »

Back home they would laugh big time if a man wanted to bake "prescuri". Unless he is a monk living in a monastery.
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« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2011, 11:21:30 AM »

When are you planning on baking them?
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« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2011, 11:21:34 AM »

You must be an old widow to bake it.

really?

In his world, yes.
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« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2011, 11:21:35 AM »

for a second I thought you were serious

I am dead serious. You don't want werewolves eating the prosphora, but this is quite common in Holy Romania were the devil is always at work.
You can say whatever, but I'm not kidding: only old widows were allowed to bake 'prescuri" in a parish. Now I fully understand why they let basically everybody-so that they feel included, my god-yet there are plenty of places where it's still as I say.

I can confirm this: in Romania you have to be a WOMAN and OLD and, most importantly, a good WIDOW (and also go to church often, try to live a holy life, etc) in order to do this. Why? The idea is to have it done by people who are no longer tempted by sex. That is why you'll never see young people do this, even if they're not married and try to live a holy life. Priests or, horror, their wives, don't do it. Young people can do other things, aside from baking the most pure offer that human hands can offer to God....or so is the idea. And I think it is so everywhere in the old Ortodox world.

*facepalm*
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« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2011, 04:24:17 PM »

When are you planning on baking them?

For the litya next Saturday, and from then on until the end of June, and again once August comes around.

I have NEVER heard of this.  Having strict requirements to who can or can't make prosphora.  All of these regulations seem a bit western, too me.  I was listening to my priest speak with other priest about this around the altar, waiting for the service to start.  One priest (Romanian, no less!) said that only unmarried, celibate women should bake the prosphora.  The Greek priest said that Orthodox in Eastern Europe, mainly the Romanians, have a far too western understanding of several things (which I won't say, for the sake of argument.)  He said that we shouldn't worry about such little, insignificant details.  That anyone can bake the bread, and who bakes it doesn't change the fact that it will become the Body of Christ.  He said that "The Holy Spirit will work it out with God, we shouldn't put so much significants on small details."

You gotta love the Greeks (who's Orthodoxy is much older that that of Romania, btw. they would know about this, of all people.)
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« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2011, 04:34:12 PM »

Best of luck.  angel
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« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2011, 04:36:04 PM »

Best of luck.  angel

thanks very much!   Grin
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« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2011, 04:39:17 PM »

Oh, and I forgot: why does it have to be an old woman? Not only because of, probably, lack, or much diminished, attachement to concupiscence, but also because she won't ever be on her period. It is known that old men can be as libidinous as young men, so that is why they never qualify to bake prescuri. Cheesy Men also tend to die like 20 years before their wives.

I say, and many Romanians would say, that all this "let's include everybody," everybody can do anything they feel "called" to do" "how can you say such a thing about women/men?" "sex is not the worst sin one can engage in" is VERY Western. Contemporary Western. Remember, in Romania the custom of havong men standing on the right and women on the left is still very much preserved. Men go to Holy Communion, or to venerate the cross, before women. Etc. And yes, men never-ever bake prosophora. It's an old woman's job.

That is not how it used to be anywhere in the world, eastern and western, 50 years ago. There used to be things that are done by (only) young people, things done by old men, by old women, by men, by women, by married women, but not unmarried one, by unmarried women, but nobody else, by old women and nobody else. That's not western, it's just how things used to be. In the whole world.

The Holy Spirit can only call you to what is legitimate for you. A woman might feel called to be a priest, but that can't be the Holy Spirit. Cheesy
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« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2011, 04:58:45 PM »

Not to mention that it will be married men that handle it after the baking and will eventually say the prayers calling down the Holy Spirit to change the bread to the Body of Christ.  To top that off, my priest told me that women should NOT bake the bread unless they are widows or nuns.  It should be done by men (hence why he and I bake it, and we are married men).  With all these competeing "traditions", it is no wonder that people laugh at religion.

Hristos a inviat!
for a second I thought you were serious

I am dead serious. You don't want werewolves eating the prosphora, but this is quite common in Holy Romania were the devil is always at work.
You can say whatever, but I'm not kidding: only old widows were allowed to bake 'prescuri" in a parish. Now I fully understand why they let basically everybody-so that they feel included, my god-yet there are plenty of places where it's still as I say.

I can confirm this: in Romania you have to be a WOMAN and OLD and, most importantly, a good WIDOW (and also go to church often, try to live a holy life, etc) in order to do this. Why? The idea is to have it done by people who are no longer tempted by sex. That is why you'll never see young people do this, even if they're not married and try to live a holy life. Priests or, horror, their wives, don't do it. Young people can do other things, aside from baking the most pure offer that human hands can offer to God....or so is the idea. And I think it is so everywhere in the old Ortodox world.
LOL. In Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem we have no such ideas, and you can't get older in the Orthodox world, or older in the world, period.  Heck, even among the Copts, who can frighten even the Russians with their asceticism, have married men who bake it.
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« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2011, 05:06:50 PM »

Not to mention that it will be married men that handle it after the baking and will eventually say the prayers calling down the Holy Spirit to change the bread to the Body of Christ.  To top that off, my priest told me that women should NOT bake the bread unless they are widows or nuns.  It should be done by men (hence why he and I bake it, and we are married men).  With all these competeing "traditions", it is no wonder that people laugh at religion.

Hristos a inviat!
for a second I thought you were serious

I am dead serious. You don't want werewolves eating the prosphora, but this is quite common in Holy Romania were the devil is always at work.
You can say whatever, but I'm not kidding: only old widows were allowed to bake 'prescuri" in a parish. Now I fully understand why they let basically everybody-so that they feel included, my god-yet there are plenty of places where it's still as I say.

I can confirm this: in Romania you have to be a WOMAN and OLD and, most importantly, a good WIDOW (and also go to church often, try to live a holy life, etc) in order to do this. Why? The idea is to have it done by people who are no longer tempted by sex. That is why you'll never see young people do this, even if they're not married and try to live a holy life. Priests or, horror, their wives, don't do it. Young people can do other things, aside from baking the most pure offer that human hands can offer to God....or so is the idea. And I think it is so everywhere in the old Ortodox world.
LOL. In Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem we have no such ideas, and you can't get older in the Orthodox world, or older in the world, period.  Heck, even among the Copts, who can frighten even the Russians with their asceticism, have married men who bake it.

I couldn't agree more!
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« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2011, 05:14:08 PM »

You must be an old widow to bake it.

Only those widows who first sleep with three turnips under the pillow for three nights; to represent the Holy Trinity and ward off lycanthopes.

lycanthopes? Wow, I had to look that one up....but don't forget garlic while you are at it for the вампір!  Wink
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« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2011, 05:22:43 PM »

Not to mention that it will be married men that handle it after the baking and will eventually say the prayers calling down the Holy Spirit to change the bread to the Body of Christ.  To top that off, my priest told me that women should NOT bake the bread unless they are widows or nuns.  It should be done by men (hence why he and I bake it, and we are married men).  With all these competeing "traditions", it is no wonder that people laugh at religion.



Yes, yes. But: that man who is a priest and is married and on Sundays invokes the Holy Spirit at the consecration is only allowed to sleep with his wife on Tuesdays and Thursdays, if there are no feast days on those days or on the Monday or Wednesday before. Definitely no love with the wife if baking prosophora that day. Not to mention love with himself, looking at naughty pictures and movies on the internet, thinking naughty stuff and the like. Sacrilege.  angel

Just sayin'.
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« Reply #32 on: May 27, 2011, 05:50:17 PM »

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you gotta love the Greeks (who's Orthodoxy is much older that that of Romania, btw. they would know about this, of all people.)
do you have any idea when our ancestors received the Christian faith? I mean the Latin speaking population of the Balkans/Illiricum?
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« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2011, 05:59:38 PM »

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you gotta love the Greeks (who's Orthodoxy is much older that that of Romania, btw. they would know about this, of all people.)
do you have any idea when our ancestors received the Christian faith? I mean the Latin speaking population of the Balkans/Illiricum?

Oh, if I may add: in fact the Romanians' acestors became Christians as they became Latin speaking. We're speaking beginning year 106 at the latest. Yeah, can't get much older Christians than that. Cheesy
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« Reply #34 on: May 27, 2011, 06:09:44 PM »

And these rules do not apply to all pious Orthodox men, particularly if they want to take communion on that Sunday?  Or is Romania one of the "commune only four times a year and sin as much as you want the rest of the year" countries?

Not to mention that it will be married men that handle it after the baking and will eventually say the prayers calling down the Holy Spirit to change the bread to the Body of Christ.  To top that off, my priest told me that women should NOT bake the bread unless they are widows or nuns.  It should be done by men (hence why he and I bake it, and we are married men).  With all these competeing "traditions", it is no wonder that people laugh at religion.



Yes, yes. But: that man who is a priest and is married and on Sundays invokes the Holy Spirit at the consecration is only allowed to sleep with his wife on Tuesdays and Thursdays, if there are no feast days on those days or on the Monday or Wednesday before. Definitely no love with the wife if baking prosophora that day. Not to mention love with himself, looking at naughty pictures and movies on the internet, thinking naughty stuff and the like. Sacrilege.  angel

Just sayin'.
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« Reply #35 on: May 27, 2011, 06:17:13 PM »

Not to mention that it will be married men that handle it after the baking and will eventually say the prayers calling down the Holy Spirit to change the bread to the Body of Christ.  To top that off, my priest told me that women should NOT bake the bread unless they are widows or nuns.  It should be done by men (hence why he and I bake it, and we are married men).  With all these competeing "traditions", it is no wonder that people laugh at religion.



Yes, yes. But: that man who is a priest and is married and on Sundays invokes the Holy Spirit at the consecration is only allowed to sleep with his wife on Tuesdays and Thursdays, if there are no feast days on those days or on the Monday or Wednesday before. Definitely no love with the wife if baking prosophora that day. Not to mention love with himself, looking at naughty pictures and movies on the internet, thinking naughty stuff and the like. Sacrilege.  angel

Just sayin'.

What about if a woman has committed infanticide/abortion? Can she still bake prosphora?
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« Reply #36 on: May 27, 2011, 06:22:17 PM »

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Or is Romania one of the "commune only four times a year and sin as much as you want the rest of the year" countries?
Only the extremely churchy commune 4 times a year. We, the less pious, commune a few times in a lifetime. God willing, on the death bed as well.

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« Reply #37 on: May 27, 2011, 06:31:49 PM »

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Or is Romania one of the "commune only four times a year and sin as much as you want the rest of the year" countries?
Only the extremely churchy commune 4 times a year. We, the less pious, commune a few times in a lifetime. God willing, on the death bed as well.


Why do I think that you are in a particularly good and / or fiesty mood today and are toying with us?  Smiley
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« Reply #38 on: May 27, 2011, 06:35:28 PM »

And these rules do not apply to all pious Orthodox men, particularly if they want to take communion on that Sunday?  Or is Romania one of the "commune only four times a year and sin as much as you want the rest of the year" countries?
 

As I was saying: Tuesdays and Thursdays only.

I think all of the Eastern European countries are "commune before Easter only" countries. There are even places, as Bulgaria for example, where many, if not most people haven't heard of such a thing as confession. Not to mention Communion. Romanians are actually the better ones, most people have heard of confession, have done it at least once in their life time, many do it once a year. And yes, only the very churchy ones commune four times a year. Every Sunday is unheard of. Unless you're a priest. And then can't touch the wife unless it's Tuesday or Thursday. Cheesy
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« Reply #39 on: May 27, 2011, 06:36:40 PM »

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Or is Romania one of the "commune only four times a year and sin as much as you want the rest of the year" countries?
Only the extremely churchy commune 4 times a year. We, the less pious, commune a few times in a lifetime. God willing, on the death bed as well.


Why do I think that you are in a particularly good and / or fiesty mood today and are toying with us?  Smiley

Augustin is actually right. As funny as it sounds, that's how it is in Romania. I think some people would think it's a sort of sacrilege to commune more than 4 times a year. Cheesy
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« Reply #40 on: May 27, 2011, 06:38:18 PM »

Not to mention that it will be married men that handle it after the baking and will eventually say the prayers calling down the Holy Spirit to change the bread to the Body of Christ.  To top that off, my priest told me that women should NOT bake the bread unless they are widows or nuns.  It should be done by men (hence why he and I bake it, and we are married men).  With all these competeing "traditions", it is no wonder that people laugh at religion.



Yes, yes. But: that man who is a priest and is married and on Sundays invokes the Holy Spirit at the consecration is only allowed to sleep with his wife on Tuesdays and Thursdays, if there are no feast days on those days or on the Monday or Wednesday before. Definitely no love with the wife if baking prosophora that day. Not to mention love with himself, looking at naughty pictures and movies on the internet, thinking naughty stuff and the like. Sacrilege.  angel

Just sayin'.

What about if a woman has committed infanticide/abortion? Can she still bake prosphora?

Well, given that I don't think there are many women under 70 in Romania who haven't had at least one abortion (though I know who had 25  Undecided or so...)......I guess.
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« Reply #41 on: May 27, 2011, 06:50:44 PM »

And these rules do not apply to all pious Orthodox men, particularly if they want to take communion on that Sunday?  Or is Romania one of the "commune only four times a year and sin as much as you want the rest of the year" countries?
 

As I was saying: Tuesdays and Thursdays only.

I think all of the Eastern European countries are "commune before Easter only" countries. There are even places, as Bulgaria for example, where many, if not most people haven't heard of such a thing as confession. Not to mention Communion. Romanians are actually the better ones, most people have heard of confession, have done it at least once in their life time, many do it once a year. And yes, only the very churchy ones commune four times a year. Every Sunday is unheard of. Unless you're a priest. And then can't touch the wife unless it's Tuesday or Thursday. Cheesy


I'm sorry. This is completely wrong, unless it is before the 9th hour, since Tuesdays and Thursdays are eves of fasting days. Monday nights only.
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« Reply #42 on: May 27, 2011, 06:57:49 PM »

Having strict requirements to who can or can't make prosphora.  All of these regulations seem a bit western, too me...The Greek priest said that Orthodox in Eastern Europe, mainly the Romanians, have a far too western understanding.

Forgive me, dear Trevor, but this is one of those things that drives me insane. It's like saying--
Western=lots of strict rules
Eastern=a few guidelines or good ideas

This is so far from both present reality and our archetypes and stereotypes of Eastern and Western. There are plenty of rules in the Orthodox Church, and they existed long before there was a notion of the "West," whatever that is, as the definition seems to change with the occasion.

Again, sorry. It just gets my goat. And, not being either Greek or Romanian, I do not have many to spare. (It's true--in America goats are very rare.)
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« Reply #43 on: May 27, 2011, 07:08:14 PM »

I wonder about the practicalities of the "no freeze" rule...

If you're baking the large Greek-style loaves, it's less of an issue. Maybe you get two loaves from a batch, and both are used on a particular Sunday (the second loaf for antidoron?).

But with the Russian-style small loaves, I get 12 loaves from one batch. Five are used in proskomedie. Couple more for extra antidoron. So where does that leave the unused five loaves from a particular Sunday? They've got holy water in them - can't just "eat" them. They go into the freezer, just in case.

I've baked both the large Greek loaves in the past at a non-OCA parish, and now the Russian ones.

I'm an early middle-aged never married woman. The parishes I have knowledge of locally have all sorts of people bake the prosphora.
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« Reply #44 on: May 27, 2011, 07:52:03 PM »

Why can't you eat them?  I know a lot of pious people, particularly Russians, who take a prosphora home and eat parts of it as part of their morning or evening prayers (or both).  They also drink Holy Water, too.  I have not had a priest that had a problem with either.  I often bake an extra small prosphora and give it to the priest to remove a particle for a special prayer, either for the living or the dead.  What else am I supposed to do with it when he gives it back to me with a triangle cut out of it?  Eat it, of course.  The antidoron has Holy Water in it, too (if you make it that way).  People eat that.  In fact, I have had two priests that brought unused antidoron to the fellowship hall after the service so people could eat it and so that it would not have to be disposed of otherwise.

I wonder about the practicalities of the "no freeze" rule...

If you're baking the large Greek-style loaves, it's less of an issue. Maybe you get two loaves from a batch, and both are used on a particular Sunday (the second loaf for antidoron?).

But with the Russian-style small loaves, I get 12 loaves from one batch. Five are used in proskomedie. Couple more for extra antidoron. So where does that leave the unused five loaves from a particular Sunday? They've got holy water in them - can't just "eat" them. They go into the freezer, just in case.

I've baked both the large Greek loaves in the past at a non-OCA parish, and now the Russian ones.

I'm an early middle-aged never married woman. The parishes I have knowledge of locally have all sorts of people bake the prosphora.
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