OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 22, 2014, 09:53:57 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: How They Love One Another  (Read 1635 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,147



« on: May 26, 2011, 10:12:28 PM »

Behold how good and pleasant it is when brothers dwell in unity.
—Psalm 133:1


Occasionally I am out of town on week ends and have the opportunity to visit other churches. On one recent trip I heard an Orthodox priest give a homily on “Why Protestantism is Wrong.” Although the homily did not have that title per se, that seemed to be the heart of his message. Such homilies, I fear, are not uncommon in the Orthodox Church. In part they arise from an inferiority complex. The Orthodox know they are “behind in the polls,” and they know who their competition is.

I have never heard a Protestant sermon on why Orthodoxy is wrong. Protestants just don’t think about the Orthodox because they are considered to be insignificant (if they are considered at all). I have, however, heard Baptist preachers speak on “Why Catholicism is Wrong.” I believe that it is because I have only infrequently worshipped in Catholic churches that I have yet to hear a Catholic priest give a homily attacking one of the other two groups.


Read more:

How They Love One Another



Excerpt of article provided to make post compliant with rule against naked links.  -PtA
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 11:02:00 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,121


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2011, 09:16:12 AM »

My only complaint is that he says we should pray with one another.  It seems to me that many in the Orthodox Church do NOT hold to the position that we should pray with heretics and schismatics (and, no offense to anyone who isn't Orthodox, but if you agree with Orthodoxy on everything and aren't part of - or becoming part of - the Church, you are a schismatic, and if you disagree one something that is dogma, you are a heretic, that is, one who holds to heresy).
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
CRCulver
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Church of Finland and Romanian Orthodox Church
Posts: 1,159


St Stephen of Perm, missionary to speakers of Komi


WWW
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2011, 09:36:18 AM »

Quote
I have met too many good Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox and read of too many saints from all three traditions to believe that salvation is limited to only one of them. This is a core belief of this journal.

How are we to love one another even if we have doctrinal differences? How can we be united if we are out of communion with each other? I have three suggestions. First, we must begin by acknowledging the greatness of what our brothers have—e.g., the zeal for the Scriptures found among the evangelicals, the rich tradition of the Anglicans, the moral courage of the pope in the face of a secular and hostile world, and the deep respect for worship of the Orthodox.

I'm now reminded of why I stopped reading Touchstone years ago.
Logged
Poppy
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Muslim
Jurisdiction: Hanbali fiqh
Posts: 1,030

onlytwatsusetwitter
WWW
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2011, 09:58:19 AM »

Isn't part of prayers about agreeing with each other?? Well how can you pray with ppl you dont agree with so i can see why ecumenicalism don't work. That isn't unity anyways.... just agreeing with each others words.
Logged
Romanist
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Roman Rite
Posts: 2



« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2011, 03:38:52 PM »

I believe that it is because I have only infrequently worshipped in Catholic churches that I have yet to hear a Catholic priest give a homily attacking one of the other two groups.


I don't believe I've EVER heard a homily attacking any other Christian group.  In fact, when I began regularly attending Mass, it was partly due to the abundance of prayers and messages seeking the betterment and unity of the entire Body of Christ that led me to inquire into the Roman Catholic faith.
Logged
orthonorm
Warned
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Sola Gratia
Jurisdiction: Outside
Posts: 16,523



« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2011, 04:05:07 PM »

My only complaint is that he says we should pray with one another.  It seems to me that many in the Orthodox Church do NOT hold to the position that we should pray with heretics and schismatics (and, no offense to anyone who isn't Orthodox, but if you agree with Orthodoxy on everything and aren't part of - or becoming part of - the Church, you are a schismatic, and if you disagree one something that is dogma, you are a heretic, that is, one who holds to heresy).

Let me fix that. If you are part of any other Christian faith and were not catechized properly in EO Church, you are heterodox. If you were properly catechized and left to join another Christian faith, you are a heretic. If left Christianity altogether, you are an apostate.

Neither are you are schismatic unless you are a current heretic with enough gravitas to create a substantial break in the Church.

 
Logged

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
sainthieu
Abstractor of the Quintessence
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 621


« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2011, 06:15:09 PM »

I'm now reminded of why I stopped reading Touchstone years ago.

I wonder what you read that gave you that impression. Touchstone's editorial board and its writers consist of a collegial group of Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic and Protestant Christians. They are long-time friends who share the goal of preserving traditional Christianity.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2011, 06:16:14 PM by sainthieu » Logged
CRCulver
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Church of Finland and Romanian Orthodox Church
Posts: 1,159


St Stephen of Perm, missionary to speakers of Komi


WWW
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2011, 10:45:25 AM »

I wonder what you read that gave you that impression.

The problem with that quotation is that it suggests that Orthodox Christianity is somehow incomplete and that it needs something from other Christian traditions. But as the Church contains the fullness of truth, it needs nothing from outside. Rather, it is the other groups that need to come to Orthodoxy.

Quote
Touchstone's editorial board and its writers consist of a collegial group of Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic and Protestant Christians. They are long-time friends who share the goal of preserving traditional Christianity.

Their "traditional Christianity" is a fiction.  The only true Christianity is Orthodoxy. Basically, Touchstone's "mere Christianity" is an attempt to smooth over serious doctrinal differences that cannot be ignored, and I see little difference between their "I'm OK, you're OK" and the tactics of the Episcopal Church, except that the Touchstone crowd maintain a traditional sexual morality.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 10:47:15 AM by CRCulver » Logged
Wyatt
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Posts: 2,395


« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2011, 12:29:28 PM »

Isn't part of prayers about agreeing with each other?? Well how can you pray with ppl you dont agree with so i can see why ecumenicalism don't work. That isn't unity anyways.... just agreeing with each others words.
I don't see what is wrong with praying with fellow Christians that may not hold all the same doctrinal views as you. Although I suppose that is because I am one of the few Catholics in a family of Protestants. What if you go to a family reunion or some other function and the majority is either RCs or Protestants, and one of them leads in prayer for the grace before meals? Do you refuse to pray simply because you are amongst non-Orthodox?

I believe that it is because I have only infrequently worshipped in Catholic churches that I have yet to hear a Catholic priest give a homily attacking one of the other two groups.


I don't believe I've EVER heard a homily attacking any other Christian group.  In fact, when I began regularly attending Mass, it was partly due to the abundance of prayers and messages seeking the betterment and unity of the entire Body of Christ that led me to inquire into the Roman Catholic faith.
Exactly. Unfortunately, it seems that the majority of Roman Catholics are more accepting than the majority of Eastern Orthodox. I, too, liked the fact that Catholicism seems to stand on its own without belittling other faiths. That was refreshing and so foreign to me as a former Protestant as it seems that Protestants tend to do an awful lot of mudslinging when speaking of other faiths.
Logged
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,147



« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2011, 08:25:22 PM »

But as the Church contains the fullness of truth, it needs nothing from outside. Rather, it is the other groups that need to come to Orthodoxy.

Possibly the Orthodox members of Touchstone's editorial board believe that as well.
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,147



« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2011, 08:28:00 PM »

Unfortunately, it seems that the majority of Roman Catholics are more accepting than the majority of Eastern Orthodox.

What I find really unfortunate is what Catholics are accepting of ... I think you've already seen the "Ecumenism (A cartoon)" thread, so I won't post the link again.
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
Robb
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: RC
Jurisdiction: Italian Catholic
Posts: 1,537



« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2011, 09:00:26 PM »

Behold how good and pleasant it is when brothers dwell in unity.
—Psalm 133:1


Occasionally I am out of town on week ends and have the opportunity to visit other churches. On one recent trip I heard an Orthodox priest give a homily on “Why Protestantism is Wrong.” Although the homily did not have that title per se, that seemed to be the heart of his message. Such homilies, I fear, are not uncommon in the Orthodox Church. In part they arise from an inferiority complex. The Orthodox know they are “behind in the polls,” and they know who their competition is.

I have never heard a Protestant sermon on why Orthodoxy is wrong. Protestants just don’t think about the Orthodox because they are considered to be insignificant (if they are considered at all). I have, however, heard Baptist preachers speak on “Why Catholicism is Wrong.” I believe that it is because I have only infrequently worshipped in Catholic churches that I have yet to hear a Catholic priest give a homily attacking one of the other two groups.


Read more:



How They Love One Another



Excerpt of article provided to make post compliant with rule against naked links.  -PtA

It is uncommon for the RCC in this day and ecumenical age to criticize other faiths from the pulpit.  I have however personally heard a priest criticize both Protestant and Orthodox Christians for their errors (In the eyes of the RCC).  The criticism of Orthodox was not so much at the EO Church itself, but at the archbishop of Athens who had made some public anti ecumenical remark during the visit of JP II to Greece (This was around 10 years ago).  He implied that the OC's were stubborn to resist unity with Catholicism and this would further disunite Christians from their true path of returning to communion with Rome.
I should also point out that this priest was not a traditionalist or SSPX clergyman, but a mainstream RC priest serving in mainstream parish (He later got promoted to a Msgr as well).  So RC critiques of other religions are rarer today then 60-70 years ago, but they still do occur here and there.
Logged

Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert
Kasatkin fan
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Archdiocese of Canada
Posts: 636



« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2011, 09:38:48 PM »

I don't think I've ever heard an Orthodox homily directly attacking another group of Christians.

I've heard homilies attacking things associated with other Christian groups that Orthodox Christians can easily fall into, and that as an incidental that theology is wrong,

but never a direct attack.

However when I was in the process of converting to Orthodoxy I hated Protestantism, though I dropped Protestantism years before I started exploring Orthodoxy, I felt a deep hatred toward them. About two months before my Christmation I was put in a situation where I was forced to spend nearly a month, 24/7 with a rather diverse group of Protestants. While I certainly wasn't interested in rejoining them after that time, I did come to recognize the element of the truth which they held, and that the Holy Spirit has not completely abandoned them. At any rate the trip helped me get over my feelings toward them, and to this day I give thanks to God for putting me in that position.

I think Christ's command that we love one another is one of his most difficult, in part because we often forget about it. Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean you can't love them. In fact you don't even have to like someone to love them.
Logged
Tikhon.of.Colorado
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 2,363



« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2011, 10:45:12 PM »

The only thing I've heard from a RC Priest about Orthodoxy was that we were "Orthodox Catholics".  He said a little part in his sermon about how "they are Catholics, too." 

I have, however, experienced comments in very bad tastes from Jehovah's Witnesses.  They had a Watchtower issue on idolatry my friend gave me last year (an effort to "save" me) and there was an icon of the Mother of God, and a nun praying before it on the cover.  It talked about Eastern Orthodoxy that we were idolaters who needed help.

Telling my friend I was Orthodox, he led a discussion in his "kingdom hall" about Orthodoxy and our beliefs, and how far-out they are in comparison to the true JW beliefs of the early Church.... Tongue
« Last Edit: June 06, 2011, 10:45:27 PM by trevor72694 » Logged

"It is true that I am not always faithful, but I never lose courage, I leave myself in the Arms of Our Lord." - St. Thérèse of Lisieux
Robb
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: RC
Jurisdiction: Italian Catholic
Posts: 1,537



« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2011, 05:34:23 PM »

The only thing I've heard from a RC Priest about Orthodoxy was that we were "Orthodox Catholics".  He said a little part in his sermon about how "they are Catholics, too." 

I have, however, experienced comments in very bad tastes from Jehovah's Witnesses.  They had a Watchtower issue on idolatry my friend gave me last year (an effort to "save" me) and there was an icon of the Mother of God, and a nun praying before it on the cover.  It talked about Eastern Orthodoxy that we were idolaters who needed help.

Telling my friend I was Orthodox, he led a discussion in his "kingdom hall" about Orthodoxy and our beliefs, and how far-out they are in comparison to the true JW beliefs of the early Church.... Tongue

Oh I've heard that "Their Catholics too" comment more then once from RC priest (Which is okay because I believe it too).  I've even heard RC priest say that Anglicans were Catholic too as well.
Logged

Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Online Online

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,963



« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2011, 06:52:27 PM »

Christ is ascended!
But as the Church contains the fullness of truth, it needs nothing from outside. Rather, it is the other groups that need to come to Orthodoxy.

Possibly the Orthodox members of Touchstone's editorial board believe that as well.
If you want, I can ask them.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,147



« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2011, 08:01:21 PM »

Christ is ascended!
But as the Church contains the fullness of truth, it needs nothing from outside. Rather, it is the other groups that need to come to Orthodoxy.

Possibly the Orthodox members of Touchstone's editorial board believe that as well.
If you want, I can ask them.

Well, I don't want to be a bother. (I'm also unsure whether "you" refers to me or CRCulver.) But it would be interesting to hear.
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
Wyatt
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Posts: 2,395


« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2011, 08:39:22 PM »

I've even heard RC priest say that Anglicans were Catholic too as well.
This is strange to me since they are not on the same level as the EO in that they do not have Sacraments because they don't have Apostolic Succession.
Logged
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,147



« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2011, 08:55:50 PM »

I've even heard RC priest say that Anglicans were Catholic too as well.
This is strange to me since they are not on the same level as the EO in that they do not have Sacraments because they don't have Apostolic Succession.

Well, according to the EOs, Catholics aren't on the same level as the EO either.

On the other hand, all that may well be irrelevant since the priest in question didn't say Anglicans are on the same level as the EO. I don't think we'll ever know precisely what he meant.

(I guess I can't help feel a little empathy for my "fellow heterodox" Anglican brethren. Grin)
« Last Edit: June 09, 2011, 09:01:56 PM by Peter J » Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,147



« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2012, 02:54:20 PM »

I wonder what you read that gave you that impression.

The problem with that quotation is that it suggests that Orthodox Christianity is somehow incomplete and that it needs something from other Christian traditions.

Which part of the quotation are you talking about?
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.085 seconds with 47 queries.