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Author Topic: My daughter is allergic to bread and wine  (Read 3030 times) Average Rating: 0
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Jharek Carnelian
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« Reply #45 on: May 31, 2011, 03:24:10 PM »

It's extremely dangerous and irresponsible to advise that this child ingest substances which are known to be medically dangerous to her on the faith that the Lord will work miracles. Do not tempt the Lord your God, and do not ignore medical science.

As for the condition itself, that's truly terrible, I had never thought of it before. I would consult your doctor and your priest, surely something can be done.

Anyone can think what they want, but these are the Holy Gifts, not poison.

That is a strawman, no poster at any point contended the Eucharist was poison. The thread started over a small child who suffers from a rare condition which is obviously very distressing for her parents. I think the situation presents both the priest and the parents of this child with great problems. However excepting a miracle to occur because it is wished for does indeed seem like putting God to the test and seems ill advised and would as a piece of advice if followed through have the potential to cause serious harm. Some Catholic and Orthodox forums (and others) I have used in the past specifically bar giving advice as regards serious medical issues and I think it is a wise policy.
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And then my heart hath told me:
These will pass,
Will pass and change, will die and be no more,
Things bright and green, things young and happy;
And I have gone upon my way
Sorrowful.

'The Wayfarer' Pádraig Anraí Mac Piarais
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Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #46 on: May 31, 2011, 03:29:08 PM »

It's extremely dangerous and irresponsible to advise that this child ingest substances which are known to be medically dangerous to her on the faith that the Lord will work miracles. Do not tempt the Lord your God, and do not ignore medical science.

As for the condition itself, that's truly terrible, I had never thought of it before. I would consult your doctor and your priest, surely something can be done.

Anyone can think what they want, but these are the Holy Gifts, not poison.

That is a strawman, no poster at any point contended the Eucharist was poison. The thread started over a small child who suffers from a rare condition which is obviously very distressing for her parents. I think the situation presents both the priest and the parents of this child with great problems. However excepting a miracle to occur because it is wished for does indeed seem like putting God to the test and seems ill advised and would as a piece of advice if followed through have the potential to cause serious harm. Some Catholic and Orthodox forums (and others) I have used in the past specifically bar giving advice as regards serious medical issues and I think it is a wise policy.

As was stated above, it is not just a medical issue. I don't intend to get involved in emotional arguments here.
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Jharek Carnelian
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« Reply #47 on: May 31, 2011, 03:33:08 PM »

Indeed. Emotional arguments tend to be non productive. Also it is of course not just a medical argument but that aspect is one of the central points to it. I think the point about putting God to the test sums up in many respects why having this child receive would be a poor idea. I think the priest acted with a great deal of wisdom in the compromise he has arrived at.
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And then my heart hath told me:
These will pass,
Will pass and change, will die and be no more,
Things bright and green, things young and happy;
And I have gone upon my way
Sorrowful.

'The Wayfarer' Pádraig Anraí Mac Piarais
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,970


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #48 on: May 31, 2011, 03:48:40 PM »

Indeed. Emotional arguments tend to be non productive. Also it is of course not just a medical argument but that aspect is one of the central points to it. I think the point about putting God to the test sums up in many respects why having this child receive would be a poor idea. I think the priest acted with a great deal of wisdom in the compromise he has arrived at.

I'm sorry. I have a hard time agreeing to the notion that it would be putting God to the test. My saint consumed Communion which had been spit up by a woman with rabies. He could have just wiped it up and burned it, but he consumed it instead. People were shocked since rabies is very contagious, but he said, "Nothing bad will happen. It is the Holy Gifts." And nothing bad did happen. There are many other cases with other saints and regular people, and no one accuses them of putting God to the test in a sinful way. The Holy Eucharist is a miracle in itself. It is Christ.
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Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
Jharek Carnelian
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****
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Faith: Less than perfect Catholic. Married to member of ROC
Posts: 187



« Reply #49 on: May 31, 2011, 03:57:15 PM »

As I said I believe this matter is best handled by the parents, the clergy directly concerned and qualified medical personnel. I think it highly unwise for any of us to offer advice regarding this situation where a serious medical condition is one of the key points. The saint you mention was a grown man and had a developed mind and conscience and his interior life was such I would suspect that he was not putting God to the test but rather acting in the knowledge that 'With God all things are possible.' This is not a comparable situation.

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And then my heart hath told me:
These will pass,
Will pass and change, will die and be no more,
Things bright and green, things young and happy;
And I have gone upon my way
Sorrowful.

'The Wayfarer' Pádraig Anraí Mac Piarais
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
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« Reply #50 on: May 31, 2011, 04:28:01 PM »

There's a case of this in the Greek Orthodox Archdicese of Australia. The child's reaction to wheat protien was so severe that simply inhaling a particle of flour caused anaphylactic shock. Our Archbishop would not permit Communion of the Blood only, even in this case.

Smart Archbishop.
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Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
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« Reply #51 on: May 31, 2011, 04:33:08 PM »

As I said I believe this matter is best handled by the parents, the clergy directly concerned and qualified medical personnel. I think it highly unwise for any of us to offer advice regarding this situation where a serious medical condition is one of the key points. The saint you mention was a grown man and had a developed mind and conscience and his interior life was such I would suspect that he was not putting God to the test but rather acting in the knowledge that 'With God all things are possible.' This is not a comparable situation.



Good advice. Thank you.
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Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
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