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Author Topic: My daughter is allergic to bread and wine  (Read 3037 times) Average Rating: 0
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deuteros
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« on: May 23, 2011, 10:15:08 AM »

I have a three month old daughter. She has a rare and extreme form of protein intolerance in which she will become sick and in pain if she ingests any form of protein. She cannot even tolerate breastmilk and must be fed a special prescription formula.

I am wondering about the Eucharist. She has taken the Eucharist since she has been baptized but she had a negative reaction and seemed to be in pain for the rest of the day after taking it.

We have spoken to our priest about it and he is going to research solutions. I am wondering if there is any precedent for someone like her? It's possible that she may outgrow this in a couple of years but what should we do in the meantime?
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« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2011, 10:28:50 AM »

Lord have mercy.

Is she able to take even a few tiny drops of the precious blood, with no bread? There was an infant at my parish yesterday who had the spoon dipped in the chalice and basically only took what was stuck to the spoon, not enough to even swallow anything. But even with that tiny amount, it's still the fullness of Christ. Or is the reaction so strong that nothing is tolerable?

It might even be worth getting in touch with your bishop about it, though your priest is probably already doing that.
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« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2011, 10:46:34 AM »

There's a case of this in the Greek Orthodox Archdicese of Australia. The child's reaction to wheat protien was so severe that simply inhaling a particle of flour caused anaphylactic shock. Our Archbishop would not permit Communion of the Blood only, even in this case.
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« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2011, 10:48:33 AM »

There's a case of this in the Greek Orthodox Archdicese of Australia. The child's reaction to wheat protien was so severe that simply inhaling a particle of flour caused anaphylactic shock. Our Archbishop would not permit Communion of the Blood only, even in this case.

What was the solution? To not take the Eucharist at all?
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« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2011, 11:45:33 AM »

Perhaps you could look into rice breads, bean breads, etc.
Perhaps you could bring some to the church and have your priest take a special part of it during the transmuting...

Research wines, she may have trouble with grapes, but fruits may be okay.  Perhaps he could give her communion from one of those "portable" little church communion things for her especially.  

Perhaps even non-fermented juice....



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« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2011, 12:29:25 PM »

What was the solution?
Faith.
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« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2011, 12:31:03 PM »

Perhaps you could look into rice breads, bean breads, etc.
Perhaps you could bring some to the church and have your priest take a special part of it during the transmuting...
I can't imagine any Orthodox priest or bishop ever suggesting this as a solution.
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« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2011, 12:42:15 PM »

Perhaps you could look into rice breads, bean breads, etc.
Perhaps you could bring some to the church and have your priest take a special part of it during the transmuting...
I can't imagine any Orthodox priest or bishop ever suggesting this as a solution.

We've had gluten free antidoron in the past, but I don't think the Lamb was ever gluten-free--we use several loaves a Sunday.

I would suggest, if I may, Holy Unction and a prayer service/molieben.
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« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2011, 12:50:23 PM »

Those of Rome have low-gluten hosts. Maybe she could receive a particle of a low-gluten Lamb (if low-gluten Lamb's are allowed)?

Lord, have mercy! Lord, have mercy! Lord, have mercy!
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« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2011, 12:52:00 PM »

Perhaps you could look into rice breads, bean breads, etc.
Perhaps you could bring some to the church and have your priest take a special part of it during the transmuting...
I can't imagine any Orthodox priest or bishop ever suggesting this as a solution.

Is there any suppressant medicine that works, even briefly?
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« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2011, 01:06:04 PM »

There's a case of this in the Greek Orthodox Archdicese of Australia. The child's reaction to wheat protien was so severe that simply inhaling a particle of flour caused anaphylactic shock. Our Archbishop would not permit Communion of the Blood only, even in this case.

Interesting. I've observed communing of the Blood only for very young children in several jurisdictions but maybe that practice varies.
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« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2011, 01:52:33 PM »

I have a three month old daughter. She has a rare and extreme form of protein intolerance in which she will become sick and in pain if she ingests any form of protein.

Lord have mercy! Any chance of her "growing" out of it?

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« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2011, 01:55:32 PM »

There's a case of this in the Greek Orthodox Archdicese of Australia. The child's reaction to wheat protien was so severe that simply inhaling a particle of flour caused anaphylactic shock. Our Archbishop would not permit Communion of the Blood only, even in this case.

A reasonable man.

Lord have mercy! And I kvetch about my somewhat serious allergy to some of the incense. My priest uses less when I am there and during Holy Week he really cut back according many of the parishioners.

Can't imagine such an affliction . . .

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« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2011, 02:03:00 PM »

I have a three month old daughter. She has a rare and extreme form of protein intolerance in which she will become sick and in pain if she ingests any form of protein. She cannot even tolerate breastmilk and must be fed a special prescription formula.

I am wondering about the Eucharist. She has taken the Eucharist since she has been baptized but she had a negative reaction and seemed to be in pain for the rest of the day after taking it.

We have spoken to our priest about it and he is going to research solutions. I am wondering if there is any precedent for someone like her? It's possible that she may outgrow this in a couple of years but what should we do in the meantime?
Exposure or repeated exposure to the same antigen/antigens as an exception to due medical caution is potentially very dangerous. You don't want your little one in anaphalactic shock. You should definitely ask your doctor or an immunologist before allowing her to ingest *even a particle* of anything known to be antigenic to her. Lord have mercy! And whatever you do, do not accept statements about what might be medically appropriate over the internet. I'm sure your priest will be very careful, but please run everything by your doctor too. Christ our God, richly bless this dear child!
« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 02:25:09 PM by xariskai » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2011, 02:13:55 PM »

There's a case of this in the Greek Orthodox Archdicese of Australia. The child's reaction to wheat protien was so severe that simply inhaling a particle of flour caused anaphylactic shock. Our Archbishop would not permit Communion of the Blood only, even in this case.

Interesting. I've observed communing of the Blood only for very young children in several jurisdictions but maybe that practice varies.
What you have observed is the Communing of infants with the Blood in which the Body is intinctured. They are receiving both the Body and the Blood. If someone has a severe wheat allergy, they shouldn't sip water from a glass which has a piece of bread soaking in it for the same rEason as why we immerse the Body in the Blood in the Chalice for the Communion of the Faithful.
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« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2011, 03:27:19 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I have a three month old daughter. She has a rare and extreme form of protein intolerance in which she will become sick and in pain if she ingests any form of protein. She cannot even tolerate breastmilk and must be fed a special prescription formula.

I am wondering about the Eucharist. She has taken the Eucharist since she has been baptized but she had a negative reaction and seemed to be in pain for the rest of the day after taking it.

We have spoken to our priest about it and he is going to research solutions. I am wondering if there is any precedent for someone like her? It's possible that she may outgrow this in a couple of years but what should we do in the meantime?

Yes, as its been mentioned, perhaps just  the Wine? In our parish we only give the Wine to infants, not the Bread.

 In regards to if the allergies will dissipate, more than likely they will at least improve and become moderate, there are several ways to work our dietary allergies in time through increasing tolerance and balancing a diet.  That and many infants and newborns have health conditions an allergies that go away as these babies grow older acclimatizing to our world of allergens, contagions, and diseases.  Her immune system is just far more fragile then others at this current time.  Work together with your doctors and your priests not just in regards to the Communion issue, but in these severe allergies themselves, as curing and treating allergies is as much an active process as it can be with any other illness or disease.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2011, 03:36:25 PM »

A former assistant priest at our parish was severely allergic to wheat, yet he regularly served Liturgy and partook of the transformed Gifts without harm.
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« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2011, 03:46:41 PM »

A former assistant priest at our parish was severely allergic to wheat, yet he regularly served Liturgy and partook of the transformed Gifts without harm.

This is important to note. No harm can come from the Holy Gifts for those who receive with faith, repentance, and proper preparation. As for little babies, the Lord Himself says, "Let the little children come unto Me."
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« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2011, 04:09:32 PM »

Our Archbishop would not permit Communion of the Blood only, even in this case.

Huh? Huh In the Polish Orthodox Church it's norm to the Blood only to those infants who cannot the Body swallow yet.
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« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2011, 04:12:43 PM »

Our Archbishop would not permit Communion of the Blood only, even in this case.

Huh? Huh In the Polish Orthodox Church it's norm to the Blood only to those infants who cannot the Body swallow yet.
Please read reply No. 14.
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« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2011, 04:16:31 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

A former assistant priest at our parish was severely allergic to wheat, yet he regularly served Liturgy and partook of the transformed Gifts without harm.

This is important to note. No harm can come from the Holy Gifts for those who receive with faith, repentance, and proper preparation. As for little babies, the Lord Himself says, "Let the little children come unto Me."

Hey, lets all be very very careful what we say and advice and suggest here.  The sister already mentioned that her daughter had significant effects from taking the Holy Communion which lasted the remained of that day, so we already have seen evidence that she should be cautious.  Some of the attitudes expressed here could be misconstrued to suggest that this illness is a matter of faith if is affects the Communion, we need to nip that in the bud right here and now.  God alone determines all validity, and if physical health impedes Holy Communion it is by no means an act of God in judgment for lack of faith, rather it is an opportunity for a further discovery of spiritual depth and faith in the crises.  This is why I continue to suggest the sister to keep discussing this actively both in cooperation with her own priests and physicians who know every day to day detail and event.

Yes, the Communion should be harmless, but if some harm then comes about our Church teaches that it is up to the individuals and their priests to sort out the cause and meaning of the matter.  We should be very careful then not to insinuate about such sacred and serious things.

I have a three month old daughter. She has a rare and extreme form of protein intolerance in which she will become sick and in pain if she ingests any form of protein. She cannot even tolerate breastmilk and must be fed a special prescription formula.

I am wondering about the Eucharist. She has taken the Eucharist since she has been baptized but she had a negative reaction and seemed to be in pain for the rest of the day after taking it.

We have spoken to our priest about it and he is going to research solutions. I am wondering if there is any precedent for someone like her? It's possible that she may outgrow this in a couple of years but what should we do in the meantime?
Exposure or repeated exposure to the same antigen/antigens as an exception to due medical caution is potentially very dangerous. You don't want your little one in anaphalactic shock. You should definitely ask your doctor or an immunologist before allowing her to ingest *even a particle* of anything known to be antigenic to her. Lord have mercy! And whatever you do, do not accept statements about what might be medically appropriate over the internet. I'm sure your priest will be very careful, but please run everything by your doctor too. Christ our God, richly bless this dear child!

I would like to highlight the above advice, as I agree very much with the sentiments, and in collaboration with the priests, I think the OP would find the perfect combination of medical and spiritual guidance. 



stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2011, 04:20:00 PM »

Our Archbishop would not permit Communion of the Blood only, even in this case.

Huh? Huh In the Polish Orthodox Church it's norm to the Blood only to those infants who cannot the Body swallow yet.
Please read reply No. 14.

OK, so your bishop wouldn't allow for Blood from a chalice with no Body in it, but he would allow for Blood from a chalice with the Body in it, right?
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« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2011, 04:20:43 PM »

A former assistant priest at our parish was severely allergic to wheat, yet he regularly served Liturgy and partook of the transformed Gifts without harm.

This is important to note. No harm can come from the Holy Gifts for those who receive with faith, repentance, and proper preparation. As for little babies, the Lord Himself says, "Let the little children come unto Me."

 Roll Eyes
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« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2011, 04:30:05 PM »

Our Archbishop would not permit Communion of the Blood only, even in this case.

Huh? Huh In the Polish Orthodox Church it's norm to the Blood only to those infants who cannot the Body swallow yet.
Please read reply No. 14.

OK, so your bishop wouldn't allow for Blood from a chalice with no Body in it, but he would allow for Blood from a chalice with the Body in it, right?
Correct. And no other Orthodox Bishop who rightly divides the word of truth would allow Communion "of only one species". So please, can you and bogdan stop saying that Orthodox babies only receive the Blood when they Commune?
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« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2011, 05:11:07 PM »

Correct. And no other Orthodox Bishop who rightly divides the word of truth would allow Communion "of only one species". So please, can you and bogdan stop saying that Orthodox babies only receive the Blood when they Commune?

Let's imagine a situation when someone does receive the Blood only. What would happen then? Would such a person receive no Grace whatsoever?
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« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2011, 05:49:28 PM »

A former assistant priest at our parish was severely allergic to wheat, yet he regularly served Liturgy and partook of the transformed Gifts without harm.

This is important to note. No harm can come from the Holy Gifts for those who receive with faith, repentance, and proper preparation. As for little babies, the Lord Himself says, "Let the little children come unto Me."
I would like to second what HabteSelassie already expressed.

Yes we believe that the Eucharist heals both body and soul, it is impossible for it to harm us, and there have happened many miracles surrounding this matter.
However, if a person (adult or child) gets sick from eating the Eucharist then is not his fault. To blame the believer for lack of faith when miracles do not happen is something we should not import from groups outside the Church.
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« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2011, 05:57:14 PM »

I have a three month old daughter. She has a rare and extreme form of protein intolerance in which she will become sick and in pain if she ingests any form of protein. She cannot even tolerate breastmilk and must be fed a special prescription formula.

I am wondering about the Eucharist. She has taken the Eucharist since she has been baptized but she had a negative reaction and seemed to be in pain for the rest of the day after taking it.

We have spoken to our priest about it and he is going to research solutions. I am wondering if there is any precedent for someone like her? It's possible that she may outgrow this in a couple of years but what should we do in the meantime?
Exposure or repeated exposure to the same antigen/antigens as an exception to due medical caution is potentially very dangerous. You don't want your little one in anaphalactic shock. You should definitely ask your doctor or an immunologist before allowing her to ingest *even a particle* of anything known to be antigenic to her. Lord have mercy! And whatever you do, do not accept statements about what might be medically appropriate over the internet. I'm sure your priest will be very careful, but please run everything by your doctor too. Christ our God, richly bless this dear child!

I agree.

I am allergic atopic and have suffered anaphylactic shock where I passed out and had it not been for a wonderful neighbor, I might not be alive today.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy.
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« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2011, 06:21:38 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

A former assistant priest at our parish was severely allergic to wheat, yet he regularly served Liturgy and partook of the transformed Gifts without harm.

This is important to note. No harm can come from the Holy Gifts for those who receive with faith, repentance, and proper preparation. As for little babies, the Lord Himself says, "Let the little children come unto Me."

Hey, lets all be very very careful what we say and advice and suggest here.  The sister already mentioned that her daughter had significant effects from taking the Holy Communion which lasted the remained of that day, so we already have seen evidence that she should be cautious.  Some of the attitudes expressed here could be misconstrued to suggest that this illness is a matter of faith if is affects the Communion, we need to nip that in the bud right here and now.
Good points. Smiley What we're talking about here is something that already HAS happened, not what may or may not happen. A little child got sick from consuming the Eucharist, so what is to be done about it?
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« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2011, 07:01:00 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

A former assistant priest at our parish was severely allergic to wheat, yet he regularly served Liturgy and partook of the transformed Gifts without harm.

This is important to note. No harm can come from the Holy Gifts for those who receive with faith, repentance, and proper preparation. As for little babies, the Lord Himself says, "Let the little children come unto Me."

Hey, lets all be very very careful what we say and advice and suggest here.  The sister already mentioned that her daughter had significant effects from taking the Holy Communion which lasted the remained of that day, so we already have seen evidence that she should be cautious.  Some of the attitudes expressed here could be misconstrued to suggest that this illness is a matter of faith if is affects the Communion, we need to nip that in the bud right here and now.
Good points. Smiley What we're talking about here is something that already HAS happened, not what may or may not happen. A little child got sick from consuming the Eucharist, so what is to be done about it?

Very wise, PetertheAleut.

Little babies can be anointed, and can also receive Holy Unction with their family every Holy Wednesday.
There was a time when I could not receive the Holy Eucharist due to my severe allergies.
I was anointed with the oil of St. Nectarios, and now I am able to receive Holy Communion again.
Yes, our church has witnessed so many miracles.

Edited to remove accidental slashes. Smiley
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« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2011, 07:03:46 PM »

No one but a physician (of the M.D. type, not the granny clampett internet expert type) should be addressing the "why" she got sick question.  

The physician will give the parameters from a medical point of view, making sure, through testing, etc., that all other possibilities are excluded.  The priest can work within these parameters from the faith point of view or get hierarchical or diocesan assistance on the matter.  If the physician's or priest's conclusions don't fit, get a second opinion.   Finally, don't forget the fact that God can and does work miracles. 
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« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2011, 07:08:18 PM »

No one but a physician (of the M.D. type, not the granny clampett internet expert type) should be addressing the "why" she got sick question.  

The physician will give the parameters from a medical point of view, making sure, through testing, etc., that all other possibilities are excluded.  The priest can work within these parameters from the faith point of view or get hierarchical or diocesan assistance on the matter.  If the physician's or priest's conclusions don't fit, get a second opinion.   Finally, don't forget the fact that God can and does work miracles. 

Amen.

Thank you, Father, for an excellent post and excellent reminders.

I have witnessed so many miracles in our Holy Orthodox Catholic Church.
Honestly, I would not be alive today had these miracles not happened.
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« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2011, 10:22:08 PM »

How is it possible that Christ's Body and Blood could harm a child?

Clarification: I am not doubting the truthfulness of deutero's post. I am just confused as to how this could possibly be happening if his daughter truly received the Body and Blood of the Lord.
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« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2011, 10:36:19 PM »

How is it possible that Christ's Body and Blood could harm a child?

The Eucharist still retains the chemical properties of bread and wine does it not?
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« Reply #33 on: May 24, 2011, 12:23:46 AM »

Correct. And no other Orthodox Bishop who rightly divides the word of truth would allow Communion "of only one species". So please, can you and bogdan stop saying that Orthodox babies only receive the Blood when they Commune?

Let's imagine a situation when someone does receive the Blood only. What would happen then? Would such a person receive no Grace whatsoever?

Firstly, this probably would never happen, since, even when the Body and Blood are received separately (as in the Communion of the Clergy or the Liturgy of St. James), the Body is received first, so it is more likely that one would receive the Body and somehow not the Blood (as in the case where you had a massive stroke and died between receiving the Body and the Blood). Secondly, the only way this could happen is by accident - God receives the attempt but looks to the intention. If, on the other hand as you and bogdan were suggesting, the intention is to administer only the Blood, then the minister is a heretic and outside of the Orthodox Church, so I guess your question is whether the rites of schismatics have Grace. The only answer I can give you is that only Mysteries in the Orthodox Church certainly have Sacramental Grace, and that someone who intentionally administers the Mystery of Communion under one form only is not in the Orthodox Church. Smiley
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« Reply #34 on: May 24, 2011, 01:21:29 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

How is it possible that Christ's Body and Blood could harm a child?

The Eucharist still retains the chemical properties of bread and wine does it not?

Yes, that would  be the point isn't it?

How is it possible that Christ's Body and Blood could harm a child?

Wait, maybe you don't take this serious enough, but honestly, how could the Divine Flesh and Blood NOT potentially hurt people? In our EOTC Liturgy the priests offer a specific petition for those who are to receive the Communion to do it with all necessary severity, and then ceremoniously yet literally washes his hands of the whole affair letting any consequences good or bad from our reception fall upon ourselves.  That being said, regardless of the cause of the Communion causing illness in the infant, it is indeed the responsibility of the parents and the clergy to properly administer and receive the Communion so that no spiritual or even physical harm may result.  In this case, the child received the Communion and became ill, surely a sign from God that the child should not be receiving it as of yet. Plus, she did already receive it at least once, so we and the family can all rest assured that Divine Mysteries have already been administered and that Our Physician Jesus Christ is cooperating with us and the child's body for inevitable healing and Grace.  So if illness prevents a regular reception this should honestly be of no concern, as it is a matter of grave health.  If anything, the parents can still receive the Communion regularly to give them the Grace to endure through this tough ordeal.  

Stay blessed,
habte selassie

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« Reply #35 on: May 24, 2011, 02:54:17 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

How is it possible that Christ's Body and Blood could harm a child?

The Eucharist still retains the chemical properties of bread and wine does it not?

Yes, that would  be the point isn't it?

How is it possible that Christ's Body and Blood could harm a child?

Wait, maybe you don't take this serious enough, but honestly, how could the Divine Flesh and Blood NOT potentially hurt people? In our EOTC Liturgy the priests offer a specific petition for those who are to receive the Communion to do it with all necessary severity, and then ceremoniously yet literally washes his hands of the whole affair letting any consequences good or bad from our reception fall upon ourselves.  That being said, regardless of the cause of the Communion causing illness in the infant, it is indeed the responsibility of the parents and the clergy to properly administer and receive the Communion so that no spiritual or even physical harm may result.  In this case, the child received the Communion and became ill, surely a sign from God that the child should not be receiving it as of yet. Plus, she did already receive it at least once, so we and the family can all rest assured that Divine Mysteries have already been administered and that Our Physician Jesus Christ is cooperating with us and the child's body for inevitable healing and Grace.  So if illness prevents a regular reception this should honestly be of no concern, as it is a matter of grave health.  If anything, the parents can still receive the Communion regularly to give them the Grace to endure through this tough ordeal.  

Stay blessed,
habte selassie



St. Mary of Egypt is a good example of a sinner who became a saint even though she did not receive Holy Communion for some 30 years while she was in the desert. Our Lord sent another saint to bring her Holy Communion, and shortly after receiving Our Blessed Lord in the Holy Eucharist, she fell asleep in the Lord.
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« Reply #36 on: May 24, 2011, 02:57:08 PM »

I am allergic to bread, and the priest I have allows me to commune with blood only. So is Communnion with blood also problematic?
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« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2011, 03:56:04 AM »

I am allergic to bread, and the priest I have allows me to commune with blood only. So is Communnion with blood also problematic?
See reply No. 14.
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« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2011, 02:40:06 PM »

If I may...this is my belief on this topic.

Jesus was on the cross and said to the thief on the right, "Today you will be with me in paradise". I dont recall the thief taking Holy Communion. My point is a simple one. Jesus made an "Executive decision"......like I said, Im not stating anything definite, I'm just saying it cant be outside the realm of possiblility....Comments?

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« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2011, 02:45:00 PM »

Okay so my priest consulted with about a dozen other priests and the consensus seemed to be to touch a tiny bit of the Eucharist on her lips. Since she has already taken it twice we all agreed to wait a few weeks for her GI tract to heal before giving it to her again.
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« Reply #40 on: May 31, 2011, 02:49:50 PM »

How is it possible that Christ's Body and Blood could harm a child?

The Eucharist still retains the chemical properties of bread and wine does it not?

I don't think this is something that has been dogmatized, same with if the supposed chemical properties therein react in the same way. The Eucharist appears to operate differently than food, or so I have gathered.
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« Reply #41 on: May 31, 2011, 02:51:51 PM »

How is it possible that Christ's Body and Blood could harm a child?

The Eucharist still retains the chemical properties of bread and wine does it not?

I don't think this is something that has been dogmatized, same with if the supposed chemical properties therein react in the same way. The Eucharist appears to operate differently than food, or so I have gathered.

However it would then seem unwise if unsure whether the Eucharist still retain the chemical properies of bread or wine or does not to offer advice which could potentially prove fatal to a child if acted upon.
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« Reply #42 on: May 31, 2011, 02:53:13 PM »

Remember, any Christian recieves grace just by being in the presencs of our Lord in the eucharist, even if they can't partake.  I've heard of the priest blessing people at the entrance of the Gifts, and then they kiss the chalice.  although I've never seen this done, it could be better than nothing.  
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« Reply #43 on: May 31, 2011, 03:06:15 PM »

It's extremely dangerous and irresponsible to advise that this child ingest substances which are known to be medically dangerous to her on the faith that the Lord will work miracles. Do not tempt the Lord your God, and do not ignore medical science.

As for the condition itself, that's truly terrible, I had never thought of it before. I would consult your doctor and your priest, surely something can be done.
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« Reply #44 on: May 31, 2011, 03:12:30 PM »

It's extremely dangerous and irresponsible to advise that this child ingest substances which are known to be medically dangerous to her on the faith that the Lord will work miracles. Do not tempt the Lord your God, and do not ignore medical science.

As for the condition itself, that's truly terrible, I had never thought of it before. I would consult your doctor and your priest, surely something can be done.

Anyone can think what they want, but these are the Holy Gifts, not poison.
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« Reply #45 on: May 31, 2011, 03:24:10 PM »

It's extremely dangerous and irresponsible to advise that this child ingest substances which are known to be medically dangerous to her on the faith that the Lord will work miracles. Do not tempt the Lord your God, and do not ignore medical science.

As for the condition itself, that's truly terrible, I had never thought of it before. I would consult your doctor and your priest, surely something can be done.

Anyone can think what they want, but these are the Holy Gifts, not poison.

That is a strawman, no poster at any point contended the Eucharist was poison. The thread started over a small child who suffers from a rare condition which is obviously very distressing for her parents. I think the situation presents both the priest and the parents of this child with great problems. However excepting a miracle to occur because it is wished for does indeed seem like putting God to the test and seems ill advised and would as a piece of advice if followed through have the potential to cause serious harm. Some Catholic and Orthodox forums (and others) I have used in the past specifically bar giving advice as regards serious medical issues and I think it is a wise policy.
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« Reply #46 on: May 31, 2011, 03:29:08 PM »

It's extremely dangerous and irresponsible to advise that this child ingest substances which are known to be medically dangerous to her on the faith that the Lord will work miracles. Do not tempt the Lord your God, and do not ignore medical science.

As for the condition itself, that's truly terrible, I had never thought of it before. I would consult your doctor and your priest, surely something can be done.

Anyone can think what they want, but these are the Holy Gifts, not poison.

That is a strawman, no poster at any point contended the Eucharist was poison. The thread started over a small child who suffers from a rare condition which is obviously very distressing for her parents. I think the situation presents both the priest and the parents of this child with great problems. However excepting a miracle to occur because it is wished for does indeed seem like putting God to the test and seems ill advised and would as a piece of advice if followed through have the potential to cause serious harm. Some Catholic and Orthodox forums (and others) I have used in the past specifically bar giving advice as regards serious medical issues and I think it is a wise policy.

As was stated above, it is not just a medical issue. I don't intend to get involved in emotional arguments here.
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« Reply #47 on: May 31, 2011, 03:33:08 PM »

Indeed. Emotional arguments tend to be non productive. Also it is of course not just a medical argument but that aspect is one of the central points to it. I think the point about putting God to the test sums up in many respects why having this child receive would be a poor idea. I think the priest acted with a great deal of wisdom in the compromise he has arrived at.
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« Reply #48 on: May 31, 2011, 03:48:40 PM »

Indeed. Emotional arguments tend to be non productive. Also it is of course not just a medical argument but that aspect is one of the central points to it. I think the point about putting God to the test sums up in many respects why having this child receive would be a poor idea. I think the priest acted with a great deal of wisdom in the compromise he has arrived at.

I'm sorry. I have a hard time agreeing to the notion that it would be putting God to the test. My saint consumed Communion which had been spit up by a woman with rabies. He could have just wiped it up and burned it, but he consumed it instead. People were shocked since rabies is very contagious, but he said, "Nothing bad will happen. It is the Holy Gifts." And nothing bad did happen. There are many other cases with other saints and regular people, and no one accuses them of putting God to the test in a sinful way. The Holy Eucharist is a miracle in itself. It is Christ.
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« Reply #49 on: May 31, 2011, 03:57:15 PM »

As I said I believe this matter is best handled by the parents, the clergy directly concerned and qualified medical personnel. I think it highly unwise for any of us to offer advice regarding this situation where a serious medical condition is one of the key points. The saint you mention was a grown man and had a developed mind and conscience and his interior life was such I would suspect that he was not putting God to the test but rather acting in the knowledge that 'With God all things are possible.' This is not a comparable situation.

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« Reply #50 on: May 31, 2011, 04:28:01 PM »

There's a case of this in the Greek Orthodox Archdicese of Australia. The child's reaction to wheat protien was so severe that simply inhaling a particle of flour caused anaphylactic shock. Our Archbishop would not permit Communion of the Blood only, even in this case.

Smart Archbishop.
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« Reply #51 on: May 31, 2011, 04:33:08 PM »

As I said I believe this matter is best handled by the parents, the clergy directly concerned and qualified medical personnel. I think it highly unwise for any of us to offer advice regarding this situation where a serious medical condition is one of the key points. The saint you mention was a grown man and had a developed mind and conscience and his interior life was such I would suspect that he was not putting God to the test but rather acting in the knowledge that 'With God all things are possible.' This is not a comparable situation.



Good advice. Thank you.
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