Author Topic: Fasting Subsitutes?  (Read 4159 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline JoeZollars

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,278
  • Pray for me an unworthy sinner
    • The Joe's Big Wide World
Fasting Subsitutes?
« on: June 09, 2004, 04:45:03 PM »
Ok I know for milk you can subsititute some brands of Coffee Creamer and Soy Milk in place of milk.  however I am drawing a blank as to what to use to subsitute for eggs?  I have heard some say you can use pumpkin pie filling, but wasn't sure if this worked.  Is there anything out there that can be subsituted for eggs?

Joe Zollars
These posts no longer represent my beliefs and I in no way endorse their contents.

Offline Ben

  • Unabashedly Pro-Life
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,260
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2004, 04:51:56 PM »
Why are substitutes allowed? I mean I can understand to a point, but sometimes people use so many substitutes, that they really aren't fasting anymore. I know several Orthodox Christians who are so caught up in substitutes that they miss the point of fasting.
"I prefer to be accused unjustly, for then I have nothing to reproach myself with, and joyfully offer this to the good Lord. Then I humble myself at the thought that I am indeed capable of doing the thing of which I have been accused. " - Saint

Offline TomS

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,186
  • "Look At Me! Look At Me Now! " - Bono
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2004, 05:22:06 PM »
I agree with you Ben.

If you are substituting, then you are really not keeping the fast.

Offline Αριστοκλής

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,026
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2004, 05:38:52 PM »
If you are substituting, then you are really not keeping the fast.

Yep. The only substitute I know is Confession for not keeping the fast... :-

Demetri
"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides

Offline Ben

  • Unabashedly Pro-Life
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,260
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2004, 05:41:49 PM »
Amen Demetri!
"I prefer to be accused unjustly, for then I have nothing to reproach myself with, and joyfully offer this to the good Lord. Then I humble myself at the thought that I am indeed capable of doing the thing of which I have been accused. " - Saint

Offline Νεκτάριος

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,437
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2004, 05:48:26 PM »
Joe lives with a non-Orthodox and I assume non-fasting family.  Making foods with subsitutes is a compromise that people in that situation have to make.  Or for example today I made sauce for some pasta for lunch....even though I substituted for olive oil there is a difference in the taste.    Or for example my Mom baked a fasting cake for me on my birthday last year....  

While substitutes aren't the perfect way to fast, they are a step in the right direction.

Offline JoeZollars

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,278
  • Pray for me an unworthy sinner
    • The Joe's Big Wide World
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2004, 08:13:33 PM »
Nektarios described the situation to a T.  Actually the post was for my mother, who still insists upon family meals (which is good IMO) even though I am fasting.  She doesnt' fix plates full of Raw fruits and veggies and fasting breads and glasses of water, but she is willing to subsitute things into other recipees.

Joe Zollars
These posts no longer represent my beliefs and I in no way endorse their contents.

Offline J

  • (another Justin)
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
  • OC.net
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2004, 01:26:21 AM »
Joe, if you want egg-replacer for things like pancakes or baked goods et al, try applesauce, pumkin pie mix (though that one tends to leave an obvious taste in the goods) or buy Ener-G Egg Replacer (it's a powdered concoction that seems to work all right, but usually it's only in health-food stores).  You can also look online for egg-replacer recipies.  I know there's one that uses corn-starch and some other things, but I haven't used it in a long time (I used to be a pretty strict vegetarian when I was a teenager).

Offline JoeZollars

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,278
  • Pray for me an unworthy sinner
    • The Joe's Big Wide World
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2004, 02:49:34 AM »
cool thanks!

Joe Zollars
These posts no longer represent my beliefs and I in no way endorse their contents.

Offline prodromos

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,463
  • Sydney, Australia
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2004, 03:10:38 AM »
Alternatively, you could buy your mom a few Eastern Traditional Meat Free cookbooks. There are plenty of recipes that are without meat, eggs and oil which are nonetheless delicious. I'm sure we have recommended a few cookbooks in past threads.

John.

Offline TomS

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,186
  • "Look At Me! Look At Me Now! " - Bono
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2004, 07:54:44 AM »
Joe lives with a non-Orthodox and I assume non-fasting family.  Making foods with subsitutes is a compromise that people in that situation have to make...

Well. That's different isn't it?

Nevermind.  ;D

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2004, 08:56:40 AM »
Well, it sounds to me like Joe's mother is being very gracious in trying to accomodate some kind of fasting. If she's cooking for the family, it can't be expected that everything is tailored to one person.

Applesauce can be used to replace some butter in baking for example, but you can't just throw it in, there have to be other adjustments made for liquid/dry ingredient balance.  And it won't work for others things that one uses eggs for like an "omelet"... fried applesauce, an exercise in kitchen mess. ;)

(Do you cook, Joe?)

 Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline Αριστοκλής

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,026
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2004, 09:51:43 AM »
Well. That's different isn't it?

Nevermind.  ;D

10 - 4, TomΣ.
However, for converts and catechumens who have yet to reach their majority (lucky them!) some allowances are to be made, I'm sure.
Later, when they become self-sustaining working stiffs, they can relish raw veggies, boiled potatoes, spaghetti with "Out" sauce, homemade bread and tea for the Fast - and like it.

Demetri
"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2004, 10:04:24 AM »
Well. That's different isn't it?

Nevermind.  ;D


Different as in: Never Tell Mom What She'll Cook for you or you'll probably get handed the frying pan.  ;D ;D ;D

Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline ania

  • Life according to Abe Simpson:
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,097
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2004, 02:32:55 PM »
I always considered substitutes cheating.  I'm lactose intollerant, so I drink only soymilk & and eat cheese very rarely (sometimes can't pass up a pizza or particularly tempting icecream), so I try to give up all soy during lent.   Then again, I cheat pretty often, as I love Starbucks' soy chai.
Now where were we? Oh yeah - the important thing was I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn’t have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...

Offline David

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,952
  • Retired GM
    • Homepage
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2004, 02:34:48 PM »
"Out" sauce, Demetri? What is that?
"When looking at faults, use a mirror, not a telescope."
-Yazid Ibrahim

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2004, 03:36:38 PM »
Plain pasta, is my guess.  Bare noodles, au naturel, etc

Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline JoeZollars

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,278
  • Pray for me an unworthy sinner
    • The Joe's Big Wide World
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2004, 04:02:47 PM »
Ebor, no I don't personally cook unless I have too.  

Burnt Toast anyone?

Joe Zollars
These posts no longer represent my beliefs and I in no way endorse their contents.

Offline Rustaveli

  • Constant In Opal... Ultramarine
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
  • Saint Shota Rustaveli
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2004, 04:38:33 PM »
... as far as philospohical underpinnings of fasting, check out this resource:

http://www.theoniondome.com/2004/02/27/

;)

« Last Edit: June 17, 2004, 04:59:00 PM by Rustaveli »

Offline Elisha

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,646
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2004, 05:06:25 PM »
Egg Beaters?  Or is that made from Eggs (I have no idea)?

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2004, 05:27:55 PM »
Ebor, no I don't personally cook unless I have too.  

Burnt Toast anyone?

Joe Zollars

Well, burnt toast would certainly be penitential.  ;)  But as my little Grandmere used to say (rather tartly at times) "If you can read you can cook." and another quote from I don't recall where:  "Anyone can learn to cook if they're hungry enough."

That's very nice of  your Mom to try to get some fasting type dishes for you, btw, not trying to get too personal.

Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline JoeZollars

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,278
  • Pray for me an unworthy sinner
    • The Joe's Big Wide World
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2004, 06:28:42 PM »
yes it is very nice, a far cry from last year this time when she was ready with dad to disown me for doxing.  Prayer nad time really changes things.

Joe Zollars

PS:  funny quotes.
These posts no longer represent my beliefs and I in no way endorse their contents.

Offline JoeZollars

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,278
  • Pray for me an unworthy sinner
    • The Joe's Big Wide World
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2004, 06:35:11 PM »
Rustaveli:

Excellent link!  

Joe Zollars
These posts no longer represent my beliefs and I in no way endorse their contents.

Offline JoeZollars

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,278
  • Pray for me an unworthy sinner
    • The Joe's Big Wide World
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2004, 06:37:10 PM »
http://www.theoniondome.com/have_a_miserable_lent.php

I love how that one makes fun of the small splinter sect around Mar Gregorius of Colordosgrad.

Joe Zollars
These posts no longer represent my beliefs and I in no way endorse their contents.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Protostrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,962
  • All who love ZZ, honour ZZ!
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Czech Lands
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2004, 07:19:42 PM »
...small splinter sect around Mar Gregorius of Colordosgrad.

Oh great, another vagante pretending to be a bishop in my Church!
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

New thread topic.  Rate the sexual attractiveness of members of OC.net on a scale of 1-10.

Mor Ephrem: 11/10

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2004, 10:06:55 PM »
yes it is very nice, a far cry from last year this time when she was ready with dad to disown me for doxing.  Prayer nad time really changes things.

Joe Zollars

PS:  funny quotes.

Well, being a parent, I can imagine/empathize some of what they might have been feeling a year ago.  Than again, (and this is meant as a compliment, Joe) you seem alot more steady now.  And you've finished some school and are looking into more school and a path in life.  Might could be it's easier now.

Btw, has anything happened with the college in the Ozarks??

Another cooking quote:  According to the tale, Julia Child, on one of her shows, dropped the whole chicken on the floor.  She scooped it up, washed it off and said "Remember, you are *alone* in the kitchen and noone can see what you're doing."  


Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline JoeZollars

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,278
  • Pray for me an unworthy sinner
    • The Joe's Big Wide World
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2004, 02:36:21 AM »
Mor--twas joke.

Ebor--great quote!  Yeah looking back at last year I probably would have disowned myself too.  I decided not to go to College of the Ozarks as it would still be a distance from a Church.  Besides bro got all kinds of scholarships so doesn't need me sacrificing for his sake.  So I decided to give up on a scot free education for the sake of being able to regularly attend services.

Joe Zollars
These posts no longer represent my beliefs and I in no way endorse their contents.

Offline Fr. David

  • The Poster Formerly Known as "Pedro"
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,833
    • Iglesia Ortodoxa de los Santos Apóstoles
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2004, 01:35:56 PM »
Here's another issue my priest brought up -- the simplicity of Lenten meals is supposed to relieve the stress of having to cook elaborate meals, thereby allowing us to focus more on the usual lenten disciplines.

Sometimes the cookbooks or recipes we get for lenten stuff is so complex and whatnot that it's sometimes just less stressful (and quicker, as we are both educators and have to work late some nights) to just substitute some things sometimes.

Maybe, as we progress (I converted 3 years ago, she 2-+) we'll get more used to "staple" meals that are five minutes or less in cooking time.
Priest in the Orthodox Church in America - ordained on March 18, 2012

Oh Taste and See (my defunct blog)

From Protestant to Orthodox (my conversion story)

Offline TomS

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,186
  • "Look At Me! Look At Me Now! " - Bono
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2004, 01:48:17 PM »
Here's another issue my priest brought up -- the simplicity of Lenten meals is supposed to relieve the stress of having to cook elaborate meals, thereby allowing us to focus more on the usual lenten disciplines.

I'll put the speed of a steak thrown on the grill up against his lenten meals anyday!

Offline Elisha

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,646
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #29 on: June 18, 2004, 02:39:35 PM »
I'll put the speed of a steak thrown on the grill up against his lenten meals anyday!

Bite your tongue!  You're not allowed to say that word during the fast!

Anyone here confirm/deny my question on EggBeaters?

Offline mourad

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 49
  • Mia, not mono!
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #30 on: June 18, 2004, 02:44:13 PM »
Dimitri,

What is "out sauce", dying to know, really.

Offline Fr. David

  • The Poster Formerly Known as "Pedro"
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,833
    • Iglesia Ortodoxa de los Santos Apóstoles
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #31 on: June 18, 2004, 02:50:21 PM »
Anyone here confirm/deny my question on EggBeaters?

Made from eggs.  Sorry!  :(
Priest in the Orthodox Church in America - ordained on March 18, 2012

Oh Taste and See (my defunct blog)

From Protestant to Orthodox (my conversion story)

Offline cizinec

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 941
  • There ain't no way but the hard way.
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #32 on: June 18, 2004, 04:44:50 PM »
Don't worry about those complicated recipes.  I live on nuts, fruits and berries during fasts.  I guess I should add bean soup.  Cook up a giant pot and it lasts a week.  It's also pretty tasty.  Supplement with fruits, nuts, berries, and some greens . . . .  Pretty darn tasty and healthy.

I have to admit that on days when oils and fish are allowed that I have had sushi.  I'm pretty darn close to the Gulf, so it's a really cheap and easy meal.  My biggest stress is on the days of no wine.  I usually have a 4 oz. glass of wine with my dinner.  That's when the fact that I'm fasting always hits home.  Meat is great, but it ain't wine.
"Brother, your best friend ain't your Momma, it's the Field Artillery."

Offline Schultz

  • Christian. Guitarist. Scooterist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,546
  • Scion of the McKeesport Becks.
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #33 on: June 18, 2004, 04:56:54 PM »
Quote
Meat is great, but it ain't wine

BLASPHEMY!!!!! ;)
"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen

Offline Αριστοκλής

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,026
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #34 on: June 18, 2004, 08:17:12 PM »
Dimitri,

What is "out sauce", dying to know, really.

Ebor guessed it right -"without sauce". Credit this to a circa 1970 College Student's Survival Guide ( I am old) which contained other delights such as "27 Ways to Prepare Brown Rice" and "12 Ways to Learn to Like Tahini".

Demetri
"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Fasting Subsitutes?
« Reply #35 on: June 18, 2004, 10:18:51 PM »
Thought so.  When you've been out on your own and cooking on a shoestring, some things just leap to the front of memory when you read something like 'with Out Sauce". The Survival Guide sounds like the (I think it was) "Impoverished Student's Cookbook" that I got my chili recipe from back in the dim times.  One of the ingredients is "Vin Exceedingly Ordinaire"  I reckon it was of 70's vintage (the book not the Ordinaire).

Another good book for the single guy who needs to feed himself is the "I Hate To Cook Book" by Peg Bracken from the 60's along with the "Appendix to the I Hate to Cook Book".  Very simple recipes, explained along with pointers and suggestions.  Nothing hysterical or that takes a week to prepare.  Not much for fasting, just for ordinary feeding the hungry.  Old copies can be found through Bookfinder.com

Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.