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Author Topic: How do Orthodox feel about a Catholic attending their Divine Liturgy?  (Read 4421 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2011, 10:40:27 PM »

So heretics are allowed behind the iconostasis but not pious Orthodox women? Am I understanding this correctly??

He was considers a schismatic with bishop Irinej ,when they split the Orthodox Serbian Church awhile back from the patriarchal Church in Belgrade...... police I was a Kid then Had No Say about it.... Grin After 10 or more year court battle with the mother church to reclaim Churches and Monasteries in the u.s. including St.Sava Monastery ,they Lost and were thrown out, so that's when Gracanica Monastery Land was Purchased and they Build the seminary and church ....... police Also it was the Late Bishop Irinej that congratulated Patriarch Pavle on his election ,then the healing and unification started.... police
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« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2011, 10:54:31 PM »

So heretics are allowed behind the iconostasis but not pious Orthodox women? Am I understanding this correctly??

Interesting question.
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« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2011, 11:13:41 PM »

So heretics are allowed behind the iconostasis but not pious Orthodox women? Am I understanding this correctly??


There use to be a Matushka a russian widow of a serbian priest that was made a nun...She would waik any time into the altar..Fr.Sava would be so upset when he officiated ,but she would just ignore him...... police
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« Reply #48 on: May 19, 2011, 11:18:19 PM »

In an Antiochian parish near where I live, an older celibate woman who has never been married and who is a virgin, is allowed to be the church sacristan and clean the altar.

Isn't it true that in female monasteries, the virgin nuns are allowed to clean the altar?
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« Reply #49 on: May 20, 2011, 04:02:13 AM »

Roman Catholics have not been declared to be "heretics" by a pan-Orthodox Synod, while they have added innovations and have deviated from the doctrine of the Ecumenical Synods (the additions to the Symbol of Faith), they've not been officially deemed to be in heresy.  They've been so referred to by learned Orthodox clergy and saints, but not by the Orthodox Church officially.  It's been said that they do not share the fullness of the Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
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« Reply #50 on: May 20, 2011, 04:18:50 AM »

If they believe things which are in contradiction to the truths professed by the consensus of the Fathers, doesn't that mean that they believe heresy?  If they believe heresy, does that not by definition make them heretics?  Keep in mind that they have changed the Creed, and consequently teach something different from the Orthodox Church
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« Reply #51 on: May 20, 2011, 08:19:18 AM »

Roman Catholics have not been declared to be "heretics" by a pan-Orthodox Synod

I believe the Pan-Orthodox synod of Constantinople, 1484, explicitly rejected filioque as a heresy.
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« Reply #52 on: May 20, 2011, 10:56:38 AM »

So heretics are allowed behind the iconostasis but not pious Orthodox women? Am I understanding this correctly??

Unfortunately, you are.
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« Reply #53 on: May 20, 2011, 11:05:37 AM »

Roman Catholics have not been declared to be "heretics" by a pan-Orthodox Synod, while they have added innovations and have deviated from the doctrine of the Ecumenical Synods (the additions to the Symbol of Faith), they've not been officially deemed to be in heresy.  They've been so referred to by learned Orthodox clergy and saints, but not by the Orthodox Church officially.  It's been said that they do not share the fullness of the Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

St. Mark of Ephesus called the heretics. Anyway, a pan-Orthodox synod is not necessary. Arius was a heretic, and declared so, before any synod, especially pan-Orthodox synod, met.
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« Reply #54 on: May 20, 2011, 11:10:36 AM »

So heretics are allowed behind the iconostasis but not pious Orthodox women? Am I understanding this correctly??

Neither are supposed to be there, actually. Traditionally, non-Orthodox are not even supposed to go into the nave, at least when there is a service going on. And the only Orthodox who are supposed to be there are ones with business there--clergy, sacristans, those with blessings to be there for some purpose. Women with a blessing to do something there can be there, but the altar is not supposed to be a divine tourist destination.
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« Reply #55 on: May 20, 2011, 01:32:46 PM »

The subject of ecumenical relations is one of the agreed-to topics to be addressed by the long planned Holy and Great Synod (Council) of the Orthodox Church. The pre-conciliar work on this topic hasn't yet been addressed.
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« Reply #56 on: May 20, 2011, 02:52:36 PM »

The subject of ecumenical relations is one of the agreed-to topics to be addressed by the long planned Holy and Great Synod (Council) of the Orthodox Church. The pre-conciliar work on this topic hasn't yet been addressed.

I pray that this council does not turn into another Vatican II.

But now we are way off topic.

When I visited my first Eastern Catholic Parish, and then went and visited an Orthodox Church, I felt right at home. In fact, the people and even the Orthodox Bishop in that parish thought that I was Orthodox.
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« Reply #57 on: May 20, 2011, 03:01:56 PM »

The subject of ecumenical relations is one of the agreed-to topics to be addressed by the long planned Holy and Great Synod (Council) of the Orthodox Church. The pre-conciliar work on this topic hasn't yet been addressed.

I pray that this council does not turn into another Vatican II.

Do you see the current state of Orthodoxy as comparable to Catholicism as it was on the eve of Vatican II?
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« Reply #58 on: May 20, 2011, 03:05:04 PM »

The subject of ecumenical relations is one of the agreed-to topics to be addressed by the long planned Holy and Great Synod (Council) of the Orthodox Church. The pre-conciliar work on this topic hasn't yet been addressed.

I pray that this council does not turn into another Vatican II.

Do you see the current state of Orthodoxy as comparable to Catholicism as it was on the eve of Vatican II?

No, not exactly. It is not a liturgical renewal per se, but a push for the reunion of all the Church, which is what Vatican II was all about too.

I have spoken with quite a few Orthodox Priests who would like to see the Catholic and Orthodox Churches reunited. Already with the latinizations of the Eastern Catholic Churches removed, our Church services look so very similar. Except for the reference to the Pope at the Canon, one could not really tell that one was in an Antiochian or Melkite parish.

Bishop Basil once stated that there are those who look, smell, and sound like the Orthodox but who are not. He was referring to the Melkites and other Eastern Catholics.
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« Reply #59 on: May 20, 2011, 04:50:32 PM »

I remember once when some RC seminarians came with one of their priests to see our liturgy. I can remember another instance when an epsicopalian priest came to see someone speak. Our priest also teaches a class on Orthodoxy at Xavier and requires his students to attend a liturgy and write a paper on it.

Just don't go up for communion and do recite the creed as it is in the service book and you'll be fine.
I always say "Filioque" under my breath to be impertinent.*

Admittedly I don't do this at my Ruthenian Church so I guess I'm just trying to give you guys a hard time.

* I don't say it when it's recited in Greek because the Holy Spirit does not ἐκπορευόμενον from the Son. Yes, we've tried explaining this to you a million times and you'll never accept that we all actually believe the same thing. We get it.

But yes it would be rude to actually say "AND THE SON!" during the creed, so I don't.

Are you a neo-conservative?

No. Why do you ask?
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« Reply #60 on: May 20, 2011, 06:02:53 PM »

I remember once when some RC seminarians came with one of their priests to see our liturgy. I can remember another instance when an epsicopalian priest came to see someone speak. Our priest also teaches a class on Orthodoxy at Xavier and requires his students to attend a liturgy and write a paper on it.

Just don't go up for communion and do recite the creed as it is in the service book and you'll be fine.
I always say "Filioque" under my breath to be impertinent.*

Admittedly I don't do this at my Ruthenian Church so I guess I'm just trying to give you guys a hard time.

* I don't say it when it's recited in Greek because the Holy Spirit does not ἐκπορευόμενον from the Son. Yes, we've tried explaining this to you a million times and you'll never accept that we all actually believe the same thing. We get it.

But yes it would be rude to actually say "AND THE SON!" during the creed, so I don't.

Are you a neo-conservative?

No. Why do you ask?

Just curious. I've been trying to get a better handle on how neo-conservatives think.
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« Reply #61 on: May 20, 2011, 06:04:05 PM »

Just curious. I've been trying to get a better handle on how neo-conservatives think.

You assume too much Wink
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« Reply #62 on: May 20, 2011, 06:08:51 PM »

Just curious. I've been trying to get a better handle on how neo-conservatives think.

You assume too much Wink

Hey don't make me come over there.

 Cheesy
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« Reply #63 on: May 20, 2011, 06:09:14 PM »

The subject of ecumenical relations is one of the agreed-to topics to be addressed by the long planned Holy and Great Synod (Council) of the Orthodox Church. The pre-conciliar work on this topic hasn't yet been addressed.

I pray that this council does not turn into another Vatican II.

Do you see the current state of Orthodoxy as comparable to Catholicism as it was on the eve of Vatican II?

No, not exactly. It is not a liturgical renewal per se, but a push for the reunion of all the Church, which is what Vatican II was all about too.

But the way I see it, Vatican II didn't just come out of nowhere. The only way that it makes sense for you to worry about "another Vatican II" happening in Orthodoxy is if you believe that Orthodoxy is currently where Catholicism was 50 years ago. Hence my question.
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« Reply #64 on: May 21, 2011, 12:40:25 AM »

But I will say the last time I went to Divine Liturgy I served at the altar with an Orthodox gentleman (not canonically Catholic) who communed.

You're talking about at the Ruthenian church?
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« Reply #65 on: May 21, 2011, 12:40:25 AM »

So heretics are allowed behind the iconostasis but not pious Orthodox women? Am I understanding this correctly??

Often this is the case, yes.

*sigh*
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« Reply #66 on: May 21, 2011, 12:40:25 AM »

Roman Catholics have not been declared to be "heretics" by a pan-Orthodox Synod, while they have added innovations and have deviated from the doctrine of the Ecumenical Synods (the additions to the Symbol of Faith), they've not been officially deemed to be in heresy.  They've been so referred to by learned Orthodox clergy and saints, but not by the Orthodox Church officially.  It's been said that they do not share the fullness of the Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

They don't need to be individually judged to be heretics to actually be heretics.
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« Reply #67 on: June 01, 2011, 05:23:40 PM »

It's not that I want to watch it as a performance in the theater - I think it's a valid celebration of the eucharist by a priest in valid apostolic succession, and that attending it would be a spiritually enriching experience. I don't think it's fair to bifurcate between "Want to become Orthodox" and "Are attending the liturgy as a theatrical novelty". On the other hand, I do understand why Orthodox Christians might consider it intrusive, and I do not want to offend the parishioners.

Perhaps if you would tell to your own catholic bishop your plans to assist to a service in the OC, he will advice you severly not to do it or get excomunicated.
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« Reply #68 on: June 01, 2011, 05:41:28 PM »

It's not that I want to watch it as a performance in the theater - I think it's a valid celebration of the eucharist by a priest in valid apostolic succession, and that attending it would be a spiritually enriching experience. I don't think it's fair to bifurcate between "Want to become Orthodox" and "Are attending the liturgy as a theatrical novelty". On the other hand, I do understand why Orthodox Christians might consider it intrusive, and I do not want to offend the parishioners.

Perhaps if you would tell to your own catholic bishop your plans to assist to a service in the OC, he will advice you severly not to do it or get excomunicated.

I highly doubt that any RC could get excommunicated for wanting to participate in an EO liturgy or service these days.  On the contrary, the modern RCC encourages Catholic/Orthodox intercommunion and cooperation as much as possible.  You'd probably be commended by the Church authorities for wanting to take such a great step in promoting dialogue and unity between the Churches.
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« Reply #69 on: June 02, 2011, 10:06:00 AM »

It's not that I want to watch it as a performance in the theater - I think it's a valid celebration of the eucharist by a priest in valid apostolic succession, and that attending it would be a spiritually enriching experience. I don't think it's fair to bifurcate between "Want to become Orthodox" and "Are attending the liturgy as a theatrical novelty". On the other hand, I do understand why Orthodox Christians might consider it intrusive, and I do not want to offend the parishioners.

Perhaps if you would tell to your own catholic bishop your plans to assist to a service in the OC, he will advice you severly not to do it or get excomunicated.

I highly doubt that any RC could get excommunicated for wanting to participate in an EO liturgy or service these days.  On the contrary, the modern RCC encourages Catholic/Orthodox intercommunion and cooperation as much as possible.  You'd probably be commended by the Church authorities for wanting to take such a great step in promoting dialogue and unity between the Churches.


Well that is there in USA but not in catholic  countries, I mean in countries were catholicism is the main  religion. I know some ones who in a time went to  a eastern liturgy and when they comented such with their Catholic priest, they were warned not to do it again or will get excomunicated.
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« Reply #70 on: June 02, 2011, 11:37:01 AM »

It's not that I want to watch it as a performance in the theater - I think it's a valid celebration of the eucharist by a priest in valid apostolic succession, and that attending it would be a spiritually enriching experience. I don't think it's fair to bifurcate between "Want to become Orthodox" and "Are attending the liturgy as a theatrical novelty". On the other hand, I do understand why Orthodox Christians might consider it intrusive, and I do not want to offend the parishioners.

Perhaps if you would tell to your own catholic bishop your plans to assist to a service in the OC, he will advice you severly not to do it or get excomunicated.

I highly doubt that any RC could get excommunicated for wanting to participate in an EO liturgy or service these days.  On the contrary, the modern RCC encourages Catholic/Orthodox intercommunion and cooperation as much as possible.  You'd probably be commended by the Church authorities for wanting to take such a great step in promoting dialogue and unity between the Churches.


Well that is there in USA but not in catholic  countries, I mean in countries were catholicism is the main  religion. I know some ones who in a time went to  a eastern liturgy and when they comented such with their Catholic priest, they were warned not to do it again or will get excomunicated.

Can you tell us any more about this "eastern liturgy" they attended? So far we know only (1) that it was a liturgy and (2) that it was eastern rather than western. Not a lot to go on.
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« Reply #71 on: June 02, 2011, 11:46:32 AM »

It's not that I want to watch it as a performance in the theater - I think it's a valid celebration of the eucharist by a priest in valid apostolic succession, and that attending it would be a spiritually enriching experience. I don't think it's fair to bifurcate between "Want to become Orthodox" and "Are attending the liturgy as a theatrical novelty". On the other hand, I do understand why Orthodox Christians might consider it intrusive, and I do not want to offend the parishioners.

Perhaps if you would tell to your own catholic bishop your plans to assist to a service in the OC, he will advice you severly not to do it or get excomunicated.

I highly doubt that any RC could get excommunicated for wanting to participate in an EO liturgy or service these days.  On the contrary, the modern RCC encourages Catholic/Orthodox intercommunion and cooperation as much as possible.  You'd probably be commended by the Church authorities for wanting to take such a great step in promoting dialogue and unity between the Churches.


Well that is there in USA but not in catholic  countries, I mean in countries were catholicism is the main  religion. I know some ones who in a time went to  a eastern liturgy and when they comented such with their Catholic priest, they were warned not to do it again or will get excomunicated.

Can you tell us any more about this "eastern liturgy" they attended? So far we know only (1) that it was a liturgy and (2) that it was eastern rather than western. Not a lot to go on.

They went with antiochians
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« Reply #72 on: June 02, 2011, 11:56:54 AM »

It's not that I want to watch it as a performance in the theater - I think it's a valid celebration of the eucharist by a priest in valid apostolic succession, and that attending it would be a spiritually enriching experience. I don't think it's fair to bifurcate between "Want to become Orthodox" and "Are attending the liturgy as a theatrical novelty". On the other hand, I do understand why Orthodox Christians might consider it intrusive, and I do not want to offend the parishioners.

Perhaps if you would tell to your own catholic bishop your plans to assist to a service in the OC, he will advice you severly not to do it or get excomunicated.

I highly doubt that any RC could get excommunicated for wanting to participate in an EO liturgy or service these days.  On the contrary, the modern RCC encourages Catholic/Orthodox intercommunion and cooperation as much as possible.  You'd probably be commended by the Church authorities for wanting to take such a great step in promoting dialogue and unity between the Churches.


Well that is there in USA but not in catholic  countries, I mean in countries were catholicism is the main  religion. I know some ones who in a time went to  a eastern liturgy and when they comented such with their Catholic priest, they were warned not to do it again or will get excomunicated.

Can you tell us any more about this "eastern liturgy" they attended? So far we know only (1) that it was a liturgy and (2) that it was eastern rather than western. Not a lot to go on.

They went with antiochians

OK, so now we've got 3 possibilities:
1. The priest's objection was based on a compass direction (eastern).
2. The priest's objection was based on an ethnicity (antiochian).
3. There's more to the story than what's been said here.

Guess which of those possibilities I'm leaning toward. Grin

BTW, let me wish you a belated Welcome to the forum.
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« Reply #73 on: June 02, 2011, 12:07:18 PM »

No one priest would object on Catholics attending Ab Orientem Tridentine Mass, as long as they do not claim Sede Vacante. Thank you for your welcome
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« Reply #74 on: June 02, 2011, 12:58:02 PM »

No one priest would object on Catholics attending Ab Orientem Tridentine Mass, as long as they do not claim Sede Vacante. Thank you for your welcome

there are plenty of priests who would object to their parishoners attending a Tridentine Mass.  Heck, there are plenty of bishops who would do the same.  There's a reason why Summorum Pontificum was released.
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« Reply #75 on: June 02, 2011, 01:11:54 PM »

I am a Catholic with no plans to convert to Orthodoxy, but I am interested to attend a Orthodox Divine Liturgy. I of course would not take the eucharist or anything improper like that, but I was curious how Eastern Orthodox Christians felt about this? Is it seen as rude or intrusive? I will ask the priest of the parish in question as well, of course.

If you are around Columbia, South Carolina, you would certainly be welcomed at the Holy Apostles Orthodox Church (OCA). Come and see.
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Formerly PJ
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Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,107



« Reply #76 on: June 02, 2011, 02:49:37 PM »

No one priest would object on Catholics attending Ab Orientem Tridentine Mass, as long as they do not claim Sede Vacante.

Ab Orientem ... I like it.

Seriously though, it hadn't occurred to me that "eastern liturgy" could be taken to mean Ad Orientem, so touche on that point. However, the last time I checked, the SSPX isn't Sede Vacantist. Are you saying that no Catholic priest would object to Catholics attending SSPX masses?

Thank you for your welcome

You're welcome.
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