Alcuin
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« on: May 18, 2011, 03:57:35 PM » |
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I am a Catholic with no plans to convert to Orthodoxy, but I am interested to attend a Orthodox Divine Liturgy. I of course would not take the eucharist or anything improper like that, but I was curious how Eastern Orthodox Christians felt about this? Is it seen as rude or intrusive? I will ask the priest of the parish in question as well, of course.
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« Last Edit: May 18, 2011, 03:57:59 PM by Alcuin »
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Melodist
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« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2011, 04:10:01 PM » |
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I remember once when some RC seminarians came with one of their priests to see our liturgy. I can remember another instance when an epsicopalian priest came to see someone speak. Our priest also teaches a class on Orthodoxy at Xavier and requires his students to attend a liturgy and write a paper on it.
Just don't go up for communion and do recite the creed as it is in the service book and you'll be fine.
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bogdan
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« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2011, 04:11:58 PM » |
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Welcome, I say. Several Protestants attend my parish for vespers and they have no plans to convert. Nobody has a problem with it, that I'm aware of.
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Michał Kalina
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« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2011, 04:13:53 PM » |
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I know that even people who don't feel like converting can be encouraged by the beauty of the service to join the Orthodox Church but I personally don't like the idea of watching the Orthodox services as performances in the theatre.
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formerly known as mikeDespite being a Polish citizen I am not a Pole.  Long live Belarus! "It's my constitutional right!" |
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Alcuin
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« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2011, 04:18:17 PM » |
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It's not that I want to watch it as a performance in the theater - I think it's a valid celebration of the eucharist by a priest in valid apostolic succession, and that attending it would be a spiritually enriching experience. I don't think it's fair to bifurcate between "Want to become Orthodox" and "Are attending the liturgy as a theatrical novelty". On the other hand, I do understand why Orthodox Christians might consider it intrusive, and I do not want to offend the parishioners.
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« Last Edit: May 18, 2011, 04:18:50 PM by Alcuin »
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J Michael
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« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2011, 05:20:31 PM » |
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It's not that I want to watch it as a performance in the theater - I think it's a valid celebration of the eucharist by a priest in valid apostolic succession, and that attending it would be a spiritually enriching experience. I don't think it's fair to bifurcate between "Want to become Orthodox" and "Are attending the liturgy as a theatrical novelty". On the other hand, I do understand why Orthodox Christians might consider it intrusive, and I do not want to offend the parishioners.
I can't imagine why *anyone* would be offended by a respectful visitor! Nor would you be intrusive. "Welcome!!", I would say. |
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"Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it."
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Asteriktos
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« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2011, 05:23:19 PM » |
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If a congregation was unwelcoming of someone, even if just a visitor with no intention of converting, then IMO they would be unworthy of the Lord they worship.  |
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« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2011, 05:24:10 PM » |
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It's not that I want to watch it as a performance in the theater - I think it's a valid celebration of the eucharist by a priest in valid apostolic succession, and that attending it would be a spiritually enriching experience. I don't think it's fair to bifurcate between "Want to become Orthodox" and "Are attending the liturgy as a theatrical novelty". On the other hand, I do understand why Orthodox Christians might consider it intrusive, and I do not want to offend the parishioners.
I don't think you'd be intrusive but according to the Orthodox Church there is no third option. There are no 'valid Eucharists' outside the Church. |
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formerly known as mikeDespite being a Polish citizen I am not a Pole. Long live Belarus! "It's my constitutional right!" |
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Maria
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« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2011, 05:25:07 PM » |
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It's not that I want to watch it as a performance in the theater - I think it's a valid celebration of the eucharist by a priest in valid apostolic succession, and that attending it would be a spiritually enriching experience. I don't think it's fair to bifurcate between "Want to become Orthodox" and "Are attending the liturgy as a theatrical novelty". On the other hand, I do understand why Orthodox Christians might consider it intrusive, and I do not want to offend the parishioners.
Welcome. I was once in your shoes. I came, I visited, and I stayed. I was surprised by the Holy Spirit. |
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« Last Edit: May 18, 2011, 05:25:49 PM by Maria »
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Punch
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« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2011, 05:46:14 PM » |
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If a congregation was unwelcoming of someone, even if just a visitor with no intention of converting, then IMO they would be unworthy of the Lord they worship. Agreed. |
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« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2011, 05:47:26 PM » |
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It's not that I want to watch it as a performance in the theater - I think it's a valid celebration of the eucharist by a priest in valid apostolic succession, and that attending it would be a spiritually enriching experience. I don't think it's fair to bifurcate between "Want to become Orthodox" and "Are attending the liturgy as a theatrical novelty". On the other hand, I do understand why Orthodox Christians might consider it intrusive, and I do not want to offend the parishioners.
Welcome. I was once in your shoes. I came, I visited, and I stayed. I was surprised by the Holy Spirit. Ditto. |
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-Metropolitan Kallistos Ware
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podkarpatska
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« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2011, 06:25:26 PM » |
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Welcome! Welcome! Welcome! of course!
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Papist
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« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2011, 06:34:10 PM » |
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I have visited an Eastern Orthodox parish. I let the Priest know that I was a Catholic and he had no problem with me being there. He even blessed me after Liturgy.
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« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2011, 07:07:44 PM » |
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In our time, there are churches which have filmed all or part of the liturgy, and this may also be of some assistance.
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« Last Edit: May 18, 2011, 07:08:33 PM by biro »
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jnorm888
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« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2011, 07:16:02 PM » |
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I am a Catholic with no plans to convert to Orthodoxy, but I am interested to attend a Orthodox Divine Liturgy. I of course would not take the eucharist or anything improper like that, but I was curious how Eastern Orthodox Christians felt about this? Is it seen as rude or intrusive? I will ask the priest of the parish in question as well, of course.
It happens all the time where I live. It's pretty common actually. |
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JamesRottnek
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« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2011, 07:23:02 PM » |
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As long as you don't start shouting "Long Live the POPE!" in the middle of the distribution of the Eucharist, I don't think anyone will mind - no one will probably even notice that you're there, unless it's a small parish.
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« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2011, 07:29:58 PM » |
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As long as you don't start shouting "Long Live the POPE!" ...
What if it was St. Clement's Day, and you just got confused?   (Kidding.) |
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Maria
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« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2011, 07:47:18 PM » |
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As long as you don't start shouting "Long Live the POPE!" in the middle of the distribution of the Eucharist, I don't think anyone will mind - no one will probably even notice that you're there, unless it's a small parish.
It does sometimes happen that a Catholic or Anglican visitor will insert the filioque into the Creed especially if the congregation takes a breath during that time. |
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Wyatt
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« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2011, 07:51:31 PM » |
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I have visited an Eastern Orthodox parish. I let the Priest know that I was a Catholic and he had no problem with me being there. He even blessed me after Liturgy.
That's very cool. There is a Greek Orthodox Church not too terribly far from where I'm at that I would not mind visiting sometime. I would prefer to attend a Byzantine Catholic parish so that I could experience the Eastern Divine Liturgy while also being able to commune. However, I usually go to Saturday evening Mass so I could go to Mass Saturday night as usual (and receive the Eucharist) and then visit the Greek Orthodox parish Sunday morning I suppose. |
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sainthieu
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« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2011, 07:53:57 PM » |
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It's wonderful. I have Roman Catholic guests all the time.
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« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2011, 08:56:46 PM » |
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I don't think it should be a problem.
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elijahmaria
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« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2011, 09:41:36 PM » |
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It's not that I want to watch it as a performance in the theater - I think it's a valid celebration of the eucharist by a priest in valid apostolic succession, and that attending it would be a spiritually enriching experience. I don't think it's fair to bifurcate between "Want to become Orthodox" and "Are attending the liturgy as a theatrical novelty". On the other hand, I do understand why Orthodox Christians might consider it intrusive, and I do not want to offend the parishioners.
Welcome. I was once in your shoes. I came, I visited, and I stayed. I was surprised by the Holy Spirit.  It is a risk...eh, Maria... |
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« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2011, 10:44:49 PM » |
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Of course it's not a problem. We have Sunday school groups from non-Orthodox churches visit our parish all the time including one group that makes it an annual event.
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Maria
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« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2011, 11:34:26 PM » |
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It's not that I want to watch it as a performance in the theater - I think it's a valid celebration of the eucharist by a priest in valid apostolic succession, and that attending it would be a spiritually enriching experience. I don't think it's fair to bifurcate between "Want to become Orthodox" and "Are attending the liturgy as a theatrical novelty". On the other hand, I do understand why Orthodox Christians might consider it intrusive, and I do not want to offend the parishioners.
Welcome. I was once in your shoes. I came, I visited, and I stayed. I was surprised by the Holy Spirit. It is a risk...eh, Maria... Yes, God had a big surprise in store for me. It was like being in Marine boot camp for which I was totally unprepared. |
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Basil 320
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« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2011, 12:35:13 AM » |
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No problem, I know my parish would welcome you and any visitor. My sister-in-law is Roman Catholic, she and my brother rotate which church they will go to on Sundays. My parish priest is aware of their situation and treats her like a parishioner. This situation is not uncommon in pluralistic America. Most Orthodox Churches I've been to are as welcoming to non-Orthodox as mine from what I've noticed. Frequently, their bulletins or some notice will welcome non-Orthodox visitors, only admonishing them, as you recognize, that Holy Communion is reserved for the believing Orthodox Christians, who do not have a canonical impediment.
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« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2011, 02:45:21 AM » |
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It's not that I want to watch it as a performance in the theater - I think it's a valid celebration of the eucharist by a priest in valid apostolic succession, and that attending it would be a spiritually enriching experience. I don't think it's fair to bifurcate between "Want to become Orthodox" and "Are attending the liturgy as a theatrical novelty". On the other hand, I do understand why Orthodox Christians might consider it intrusive, and I do not want to offend the parishioners.
Welcome. I was once in your shoes. I came, I visited, and I stayed. I was surprised by the Holy Spirit. It is a risk...eh, Maria... Yes, God had a big surprise in store for me. It was like being in Marine boot camp for which I was totally unprepared. Good analogy. I really felt the same way. |
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It is not the task of Christianity to provide easy answers to every question, but to make us progressively aware of a mystery. God is not so much the object of our knowledge as the cause of our wonder.
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WetCatechumen
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« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2011, 05:31:25 AM » |
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I remember once when some RC seminarians came with one of their priests to see our liturgy. I can remember another instance when an epsicopalian priest came to see someone speak. Our priest also teaches a class on Orthodoxy at Xavier and requires his students to attend a liturgy and write a paper on it.
Just don't go up for communion and do recite the creed as it is in the service book and you'll be fine.
I always say "Filioque" under my breath to be impertinent.* Admittedly I don't do this at my Ruthenian Church so I guess I'm just trying to give you guys a hard time. * I don't say it when it's recited in Greek because the Holy Spirit does not ἐκπορευόμενον from the Son. Yes, we've tried explaining this to you a million times and you'll never accept that we all actually believe the same thing. We get it. But yes it would be rude to actually say "AND THE SON!" during the creed, so I don't. |
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« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 05:31:49 AM by WetCatechumen »
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"And because they have nothing better to do, they take cushion and chairs to Rome. And while the Pope is saying liturgy, they go, 'Oh, oh, oh, filioque!' And the Pope say, 'Filioque? That-uh sound nice! I think I divide-uh the Church over it!'" - Comrade Real Presence
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Shlomlokh
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« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2011, 07:52:01 AM » |
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All types of folks visit our church from time to time and Fr. is welcoming to them all (as are the rest of us). We have a RC priest that visits from time to time with his wife. He was coming regularly for a while (Saturdays and Sundays).
In Christ,
Andrew
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ialmisry
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« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2011, 08:38:00 AM » |
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Christus resurrexit! I am a Catholic with no plans to convert to Orthodoxy, but I am interested to attend a Orthodox Divine Liturgy. I of course would not take the eucharist or anything improper like that, but I was curious how Eastern Orthodox Christians felt about this? Is it seen as rude or intrusive? I will ask the priest of the parish in question as well, of course.
My Church is full of Catholics, it being the Catholic Church. As for those pledged to the Vatican, as long as they do not attempt to take communion, I have no problem with it (and I don't see any problem with them taking antidoron or holy water either). |
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if you spit on it, it will be put out;
and both come out of your mouth
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ialmisry
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« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2011, 08:41:56 AM » |
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Christus resurrexit! I remember once when some RC seminarians came with one of their priests to see our liturgy. I can remember another instance when an epsicopalian priest came to see someone speak. Our priest also teaches a class on Orthodoxy at Xavier and requires his students to attend a liturgy and write a paper on it.
Just don't go up for communion and do recite the creed as it is in the service book and you'll be fine.
I always say "Filioque" under my breath to be impertinent.* Admittedly I don't do this at my Ruthenian Church so I guess I'm just trying to give you guys a hard time. . It's your soul. * I don't say it when it's recited in Greek because the Holy Spirit does not ἐκπορευόμενον from the Son. Yes, we've tried explaining this to you a million times and you'll never accept that we all actually believe the same thing. We get it. Evidently not: you believe He proceeds from the Essence of the Godhead, and we believe as Christ taught, that He proceeds from the Person of the Father. But yes it would be rude to actually say "AND THE SON!" during the creed, so I don't.
I would take it then that you don't try to commune. |
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
and both come out of your mouth
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ialmisry
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« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2011, 08:46:16 AM » |
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As long as you don't start shouting "Long Live the POPE!" ...
What if it was St. Clement's Day, and you just got confused? (Kidding.) Or a Presanctified Liturgy. Long live the Pope!  |
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
and both come out of your mouth
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Αριστοκλής
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« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2011, 10:17:01 AM » |
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"Come and see."
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« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2011, 11:02:35 AM » |
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Christus resurrexit! I am a Catholic with no plans to convert to Orthodoxy, but I am interested to attend a Orthodox Divine Liturgy. I of course would not take the eucharist or anything improper like that, but I was curious how Eastern Orthodox Christians felt about this? Is it seen as rude or intrusive? I will ask the priest of the parish in question as well, of course.
My Church is full of Catholics, it being the Catholic Church. As for those pledged to the Vatican, as long as they do not attempt to take communion, I have no problem with it (and I don't see any problem with them taking antidoron or holy water either). I was thinking of bringing up antidoron. I've attended a handful of Orthodox liturgies over the years, and (as far as I can recall) I always took antidoron afterward. |
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« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 11:09:23 AM by Peter J »
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« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2011, 11:15:04 AM » |
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I have visited an Eastern Orthodox parish. I let the Priest know that I was a Catholic and he had no problem with me being there. He even blessed me after Liturgy.
That's very cool. There is a Greek Orthodox Church not too terribly far from where I'm at that I would not mind visiting sometime. I would prefer to attend a Byzantine Catholic parish so that I could experience the Eastern Divine Liturgy while also being able to commune. However, I usually go to Saturday evening Mass so I could go to Mass Saturday night as usual (and receive the Eucharist) and then visit the Greek Orthodox parish Sunday morning I suppose. I'd just like to tack on to that, even if one isn't receiving communion on a particular weekend, it's still necessary to attended a Catholic liturgy so as to fulfill the Sunday Obligation. |
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« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2011, 11:31:00 AM » |
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I remember once when some RC seminarians came with one of their priests to see our liturgy. I can remember another instance when an epsicopalian priest came to see someone speak. Our priest also teaches a class on Orthodoxy at Xavier and requires his students to attend a liturgy and write a paper on it.
Just don't go up for communion and do recite the creed as it is in the service book and you'll be fine.
I always say "Filioque" under my breath to be impertinent.* Admittedly I don't do this at my Ruthenian Church so I guess I'm just trying to give you guys a hard time. * I don't say it when it's recited in Greek because the Holy Spirit does not ἐκπορευόμενον from the Son. Yes, we've tried explaining this to you a million times and you'll never accept that we all actually believe the same thing. We get it. But yes it would be rude to actually say "AND THE SON!" during the creed, so I don't. Are you a neo-conservative? |
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Wyatt
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« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2011, 12:35:57 PM » |
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I have visited an Eastern Orthodox parish. I let the Priest know that I was a Catholic and he had no problem with me being there. He even blessed me after Liturgy.
That's very cool. There is a Greek Orthodox Church not too terribly far from where I'm at that I would not mind visiting sometime. I would prefer to attend a Byzantine Catholic parish so that I could experience the Eastern Divine Liturgy while also being able to commune. However, I usually go to Saturday evening Mass so I could go to Mass Saturday night as usual (and receive the Eucharist) and then visit the Greek Orthodox parish Sunday morning I suppose. I'd just like to tack on to that, even if one isn't receiving communion on a particular weekend, it's still necessary to attended a Catholic liturgy so as to fulfill the Sunday Obligation. Oh yeah, true. The only time that an Eastern Orthodox liturgy fulfills the Sunday obligation is if there are no Catholic parishes around, right? |
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« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2011, 12:55:01 PM » |
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AFAIK the Liturgy in the Orthodox Church does not fulfill the Catholic Sunday obligation. If there is not a RC Church nearby the obligation can't be fulfilled/
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formerly known as mikeDespite being a Polish citizen I am not a Pole. Long live Belarus! "It's my constitutional right!" |
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Maria
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« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2011, 01:06:02 PM » |
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I have visited an Eastern Orthodox parish. I let the Priest know that I was a Catholic and he had no problem with me being there. He even blessed me after Liturgy.
That's very cool. There is a Greek Orthodox Church not too terribly far from where I'm at that I would not mind visiting sometime. I would prefer to attend a Byzantine Catholic parish so that I could experience the Eastern Divine Liturgy while also being able to commune. However, I usually go to Saturday evening Mass so I could go to Mass Saturday night as usual (and receive the Eucharist) and then visit the Greek Orthodox parish Sunday morning I suppose. I'd just like to tack on to that, even if one isn't receiving communion on a particular weekend, it's still necessary to attended a Catholic liturgy so as to fulfill the Sunday Obligation. Oh yeah, true. The only time that an Eastern Orthodox liturgy fulfills the Sunday obligation is if there are no Catholic parishes around, right? When I was attending the Melkite Eastern Catholic Church, I was told by my priest that if there were no Catholic Church in the area where one was living or traveling, that one could attend Saturday All-night vigil or Sunday Divine Liturgy at an Orthodox Church and fulfill the Sunday obligation. Of course, a Catholic cannot receive Holy Communion in the Orthodox Church. He also mentioned that one should always call or email the priest beforehand out of courtesy and respect. |
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« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 01:23:00 PM by Maria »
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« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2011, 01:20:30 PM » |
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I believe that if there is no Catholic parish around, you'd be dispensed of the obligation. You wouldn't be mandated to attend an Orthodox Divine Liturgy. I have visited an Eastern Orthodox parish. I let the Priest know that I was a Catholic and he had no problem with me being there. He even blessed me after Liturgy.
That's very cool. There is a Greek Orthodox Church not too terribly far from where I'm at that I would not mind visiting sometime. I would prefer to attend a Byzantine Catholic parish so that I could experience the Eastern Divine Liturgy while also being able to commune. However, I usually go to Saturday evening Mass so I could go to Mass Saturday night as usual (and receive the Eucharist) and then visit the Greek Orthodox parish Sunday morning I suppose. I'd just like to tack on to that, even if one isn't receiving communion on a particular weekend, it's still necessary to attended a Catholic liturgy so as to fulfill the Sunday Obligation. Oh yeah, true. The only time that an Eastern Orthodox liturgy fulfills the Sunday obligation is if there are no Catholic parishes around, right? |
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« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2011, 01:39:15 PM » |
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We have a RC priest that visits from time to time with his wife. With his wife? Am I missing something here? |
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Schultz
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« Reply #40 on: May 19, 2011, 01:42:19 PM » |
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We have a RC priest that visits from time to time with his wife. With his wife? Am I missing something here? Probably a Lutheran or Anglican convert minister who was married. The RCC allows for such men to convert and be ordained on a case-by-case basis. Fr. Dwight Longenecker, relatively famous in the RC blogosphere, is one such priest. |
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« Reply #41 on: May 19, 2011, 01:46:15 PM » |
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AFAIK the Liturgy in the Orthodox Church does not fulfill the Catholic Sunday obligation. If there is not a RC Church nearby the obligation can't be fulfilled/
That's my understanding. |
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« Reply #42 on: May 19, 2011, 09:32:28 PM » |
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Christus resurrexit! I remember once when some RC seminarians came with one of their priests to see our liturgy. I can remember another instance when an epsicopalian priest came to see someone speak. Our priest also teaches a class on Orthodoxy at Xavier and requires his students to attend a liturgy and write a paper on it.
Just don't go up for communion and do recite the creed as it is in the service book and you'll be fine.
I always say "Filioque" under my breath to be impertinent.* Admittedly I don't do this at my Ruthenian Church so I guess I'm just trying to give you guys a hard time. . It's your soul. * I don't say it when it's recited in Greek because the Holy Spirit does not ἐκπορευόμενον from the Son. Yes, we've tried explaining this to you a million times and you'll never accept that we all actually believe the same thing. We get it. Evidently not: you believe He proceeds from the Essence of the Godhead, and we believe as Christ taught, that He proceeds from the Person of the Father. But yes it would be rude to actually say "AND THE SON!" during the creed, so I don't.
I would take it then that you don't try to commune. I'm not going to answer that question just to annoy you. But I will say the last time I went to Divine Liturgy I served at the altar with an Orthodox gentleman (not canonically Catholic) who communed. |
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"And because they have nothing better to do, they take cushion and chairs to Rome. And while the Pope is saying liturgy, they go, 'Oh, oh, oh, filioque!' And the Pope say, 'Filioque? That-uh sound nice! I think I divide-uh the Church over it!'" - Comrade Real Presence
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stashko
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« Reply #43 on: May 19, 2011, 10:25:53 PM » |
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The Late Serbian Bishop Dionicija Had his Friend a Roman Catholic Cardinal inside the Altar ,when he was officiating at the Bishops highl Divine Liturgy ,It would seem Some Orthodox be they religious or Lay Don't seem to mind......I mind, about the Latin Clergy attending and being inside the altar area,But not for the Lay Catholics it's fine if they attend the services...  |
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« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 10:44:36 PM by stashko »
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 ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН. |
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akimori makoto
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« Reply #44 on: May 19, 2011, 10:35:58 PM » |
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So heretics are allowed behind the iconostasis but not pious Orthodox women? Am I understanding this correctly??
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The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.
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