Author Topic: Almost all Bulgarian Holy Synod members were Communist secret services agents  (Read 3159 times)

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Offline ag_vn

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Today were announced the names of high-ranking clerics from different denominations who collaborated with the Communist secret services - Bulgarian State Security. As for the Bulgarian Orthodox Church 11 of the fifteen members of the Holy Synod were agents - Metropolitan Kyril of Varna, Metropolitan Galaction of Stara Zagora, Metropolitan Dometian of Vidin, Metropolitan Ignatius of Pleven, Metropolitan Ioanicius of Sliven, Metropolitan Gregorios of Veliko Tarnovo, Metropolitan Kalinik of Vratsa, Metropolitan Nathaniel of Nevrokop, Metropolitan Neophite of Rousse, Metropolitan Joseph of the USA, Canada and Australia and Metropolitan Simeon of Western and Central Europe.

Those who weren't - Bulgarian Patriarch and Metropolitan of Sofia Maxim, Metropolitan Gabriel/Gavriil of Lovech, Metropolitan Nicholas of Plovdiv and Metropolitan Ambrose of Silistra.

Roman Catholic Bishop George Yovchev of Sofia and Plovdiv, one of the three Catholic bishops in Bulgaria, was an agent too.

http://www.vesti.bg/index.phtml?tid=40&oid=4479271
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 10:48:11 AM by ag_vn »

Offline ialmisry

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Today were announced the names of high-ranking clerics from different denominations who collaborated with the Communist secret services - Bulgarian State Security. As for the Bulgarian Orthodox Church 11 of the fifteen members of the Holy Synod were agents - Metropolitan Kyril of Varna, Metropolitan Galaction of Stara Zagora, Metropolitan Dometian of Vidin, Metropolitan Ignatius of Pleven, Metropolitan Ioanicius of Sliven, Metropolitan Gregorios of Veliko Tarnovo, Metropolitan Kalinik of Vratsa, Metropolitan Nathaniel of Nevrokop, Metropolitan Neophite of Rousse, Metropolitan Joseph of the USA, Canada and Australia and Metropolitan Simeon of Western and Central Europe.

Those who weren't - Bulgarian Patriarch and Metropolitan of Sofia Maxim, Metropolitan Gabriel/Gavriil of Lovech, Metropolitan Nicholas of Plovdiv and Metropolitan Ambrose of Silistra.

Roman Catholic Bishop George Yovchev of Sofia and Plovdiv, one of the three Catholic bishops in Bulgaria, was an agent too.

http://www.vesti.bg/index.phtml?tid=40&oid=4479271
I'm surprised that some weren't.  How did they get consecrated?
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Offline podkarpatska

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Just wondering - out of fairness to those named - what actually defines 'agent' and what level of 'accurate' cooperation might they have provided? Secondly, does the news service from Bulgaria have its own agenda - are they 'secularists', are they pro-communist - are they pro or anti- EU  - what is the deal and how does this relate to current Bulgarian politics? There is probably more here than meets the eye. (and less)
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 11:36:59 AM by podkarpatska »

Offline Alpo

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Just wondering - out of fairness to those named - what actually defines 'agent' and what level of 'accurate' cooperation might they have provided?

+ 1

The current RC pope was a member of the Hitler Youth but I don't think he has ever been a Nazi. Maybe these hierarchs's situations was the same i.e. it was compulsory at the time whether they were Communist or not.

Anyway, it's a good thing that the Soviet past is dealt publicly. The same should be done in every formerly Communist country.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 02:05:48 PM by Alpo »
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

Offline ag_vn

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I'm surprised that some weren't.  How did they get consecrated?

Many people believe that the Patriarch was indeed an agent, because he was the one who was supported by the Communist party on the Patriarchal elections in 1971. The three other Metropolitans were consecrated in various years after the fall of communism.


Just wondering - out of fairness to those named - what actually defines 'agent' and what level of 'accurate' cooperation might they have provided?

The commission did not reveal what exactly everyone of them did. The only information so far is that they were either agents, or collaborators mainly of the political police department of State Security. At least one Metropolitan already has said that he had never been an agent and it's the first time he hears about it. So we don't know yet that exactly they were doing.


Secondly, does the news service from Bulgaria have its own agenda - are they 'secularists', are they pro-communist - are they pro or anti- EU  - what is the deal and how does this relate to current Bulgarian politics? There is probably more here than meets the eye. (and less)

The list was revealed today by the Commission for former agents and collaborators of State Security. I just linked that site, because the list was not yet published on any Orthodox site for example. Although it is now - http://www.dveri.bg/content/view/14460/29/

As for the politics, I don't think the revealing of these names is related to the current politics of the Bulgarian state.  It's more related to the ecclesiastical politics, because you know the Patriarch is quite old... I mean some of these names were considered very strong candidates for his post.


Anyway, it's a good thing that the Soviet past is dealt publicly. The same should be done in every formerly Communist country.

That's what people what.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 02:42:48 PM by ag_vn »

Offline podkarpatska

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I'm surprised that some weren't.  How did they get consecrated?

Many people believe that the Patriarch was indeed an agent, because he was the one who was supported by the Communist party on the Patriarchal elections in 1971. The three other Metropolitans were consecrated in various years after the fall of communism.


Just wondering - out of fairness to those named - what actually defines 'agent' and what level of 'accurate' cooperation might they have provided?

The commission did not reveal what exactly everyone of them did. The only information so far is that they were either agents, or collaborators mainly of the political police department of State Security. At least one Metropolitan already has said that he had never been an agent and it's the first time he hears about it. So we don't know yet that exactly they were doing.


Secondly, does the news service from Bulgaria have its own agenda - are they 'secularists', are they pro-communist - are they pro or anti- EU  - what is the deal and how does this relate to current Bulgarian politics? There is probably more here than meets the eye. (and less)

The list was revealed today by the Commission for former agents and collaborators of State Security. I just linked that site, because the list was not yet published on any Orthodox site for example. Although it is now - http://www.dveri.bg/content/view/14460/29/

As for the politics, I don't think the revealing of these names is related to the current politics of the Bulgarian state.  It's more related to the ecclesiastical politics, because you know the Patriarch is quite old... I mean some of these names were considered very strong candidates for his post.


Anyway, it's a good thing that the Soviet past is dealt publicly. The same should be done in every formerly Communist country.

That's what people what.


I agree that the past should be dealt with publicly and that the analogy to the Pope is fair. Just one more thought - I've read enough John leCarre and Ken Follett  novels to think that the Communist state police agency might have maintained records asserting this person or that person was an agent or informer when in reality they never were just for blackmail or other nefarious purposes!

Offline Basil 320

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I am pleasantly surprised that Patriarch Maxim wasn't associated with the Communists as the Commies allowed his election as primate.
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Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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I'm surprised that some weren't.  How did they get consecrated?

Many people believe that the Patriarch was indeed an agent, because he was the one who was supported by the Communist party on the Patriarchal elections in 1971. The three other Metropolitans were consecrated in various years after the fall of communism.


Just wondering - out of fairness to those named - what actually defines 'agent' and what level of 'accurate' cooperation might they have provided?

The commission did not reveal what exactly everyone of them did. The only information so far is that they were either agents, or collaborators mainly of the political police department of State Security. At least one Metropolitan already has said that he had never been an agent and it's the first time he hears about it. So we don't know yet that exactly they were doing.


Secondly, does the news service from Bulgaria have its own agenda - are they 'secularists', are they pro-communist - are they pro or anti- EU  - what is the deal and how does this relate to current Bulgarian politics? There is probably more here than meets the eye. (and less)

The list was revealed today by the Commission for former agents and collaborators of State Security. I just linked that site, because the list was not yet published on any Orthodox site for example. Although it is now - http://www.dveri.bg/content/view/14460/29/

As for the politics, I don't think the revealing of these names is related to the current politics of the Bulgarian state.  It's more related to the ecclesiastical politics, because you know the Patriarch is quite old... I mean some of these names were considered very strong candidates for his post.


Anyway, it's a good thing that the Soviet past is dealt publicly. The same should be done in every formerly Communist country.

That's what people what.


I agree that the past should be dealt with publicly and that the analogy to the Pope is fair. Just one more thought - I've read enough John leCarre and Ken Follett  novels to think that the Communist state police agency might have maintained records asserting this person or that person was an agent or informer when in reality they never were just for blackmail or other nefarious purposes!

Sometimes things are stranger than fiction. BTW, you should add to your list of exceptions, the padding of records.

In any case, the pressure on everybody to cooperate with the organs of the state was immense in a Communist country. There is no question in my mind that the prelates in question were monitored, approached and asked to do/not to do certain things. If they complied with innocuous requests, such as "give me a trip report when you get back," they could be listed on the rolls at least as information source or collaborator. So, the question has never been whether they worked with the system, the question is what did they actually do.  And, most importantly, even if their collaboration resulted in someone being hurt, did they repent and make amends?

Offline augustin717

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I would be more interested to see the secret services the clergy collaborates with now.
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Offline podkarpatska

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I'm surprised that some weren't.  How did they get consecrated?

Many people believe that the Patriarch was indeed an agent, because he was the one who was supported by the Communist party on the Patriarchal elections in 1971. The three other Metropolitans were consecrated in various years after the fall of communism.


Just wondering - out of fairness to those named - what actually defines 'agent' and what level of 'accurate' cooperation might they have provided?

The commission did not reveal what exactly everyone of them did. The only information so far is that they were either agents, or collaborators mainly of the political police department of State Security. At least one Metropolitan already has said that he had never been an agent and it's the first time he hears about it. So we don't know yet that exactly they were doing.


Secondly, does the news service from Bulgaria have its own agenda - are they 'secularists', are they pro-communist - are they pro or anti- EU  - what is the deal and how does this relate to current Bulgarian politics? There is probably more here than meets the eye. (and less)

The list was revealed today by the Commission for former agents and collaborators of State Security. I just linked that site, because the list was not yet published on any Orthodox site for example. Although it is now - http://www.dveri.bg/content/view/14460/29/

As for the politics, I don't think the revealing of these names is related to the current politics of the Bulgarian state.  It's more related to the ecclesiastical politics, because you know the Patriarch is quite old... I mean some of these names were considered very strong candidates for his post.


Anyway, it's a good thing that the Soviet past is dealt publicly. The same should be done in every formerly Communist country.

That's what people what.


I agree that the past should be dealt with publicly and that the analogy to the Pope is fair. Just one more thought - I've read enough John leCarre and Ken Follett  novels to think that the Communist state police agency might have maintained records asserting this person or that person was an agent or informer when in reality they never were just for blackmail or other nefarious purposes!

Sometimes things are stranger than fiction. BTW, you should add to your list of exceptions, the padding of records.

In any case, the pressure on everybody to cooperate with the organs of the state was immense in a Communist country. There is no question in my mind that the prelates in question were monitored, approached and asked to do/not to do certain things. If they complied with innocuous requests, such as "give me a trip report when you get back," they could be listed on the rolls at least as information source or collaborator. So, the question has never been whether they worked with the system, the question is what did they actually do.  And, most importantly, even if their collaboration resulted in someone being hurt, did they repent and make amends?

Indeed, those of us with friends and family who lived behind the old 'iron curtain' know full well that the FBI would often interview you if you visited Ukraine or Poland or Czechoslovakia, ask you what you saw, who you visited etc...Also if you got frequent packages from there or made phone calls.....It wasn't just Communist paranoia and their state security apparatus which victimized and scared people. It was not easy being called 'Russian Orthodox' and celebrating 'Russian Christmas' in the United States during the period from the end of the war through 1988 or so.

Offline mike

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I would be more interested to see the secret services the clergy collaborates with now.

QFT.
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Offline mike

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Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?
"No one is paying attention to your post reports"
Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.