Ban on Political Discussion

[Anastasios]

While the Administrators of OC.net will have to decide with the input of our moderators the ultimate decision, we would appreaciate your input.

anastasios

[Donna Rose]

I voted other. The alternative would be to start a forum devoted to political issues that directly affect the Orthodox Christian. Whether moderated or unmoderated, I'm not sure. And if this would take a while to put together (since I know Robert is very busy and he'd hafta do the code or however it works to make a new forum), then I'd say either keep the ban or restricted discussion until then.

[ExOrienteLux]

I agree with Donna.  That seems to be the best course of action, even though it would mean many thankless hours spent staring at coding.  If that happens, it probably should be moderated in order to keep it on political subjects that pertain to Orthodox.

[Jennifer]

Any kind of political discussion should be moderated.  It makes for a more 'pleasant' forum to be without political discussion but politics can often times be relevant to the forum so I voted for the restricted discussion option.  

[Fr. David]

Ditto Jennifer.

[spiros]

While we are in the world we must play a role in all aspects of life. Rendering to Caesar means a lot more in our Society than 1st Century Palestine. I like the idea of a place on this forum where politics can be discussed, provided that it does not flow into the Faith, prayer and other forums AND  it remains relevant to our higher calling as members of Christ's Church.   I vote "other" too.
(Can newbies even vote?  )

[Nacho]

I voted for restricted. I think it's almost impossible not to talk about it since church & state issues have been in the headlines lately. It's probably due to the political season we are in also. I'm sure it will die down after the elections.

What should be restricted somewhat are the democrats versus republicans threads which get really boring after awhile. I think political threads that deal with much more general political discourse (not specifically political party's themselves) is fine. We've had recent threads about the ACLU & the seperation of church & state issues that seem almost unavoidable not to talk about from time to time because that's something that can truely affect the church. Anyway........that's my two cents

[Brendan03]

I think there has to be some, I think it should be civil, and so restricted it probably best.

[ania]

I agree with DonnaRose

[spartacus]

Create separate forum for topics of a political nature....

[Nacho]

Create separate forum for topics of a political nature....

That's a good idea....

[JoeZollars]

I voted other as well as I firmly agree with Donna Rose's idea.

Joe Zollars

[Linus7]

A separate forum for political discussion would be a good thing, since it is practically impossible to exclude politics.

[OrthServ86]

Glory to Jesus Christ!

I personally, being a Canadian, and an Orthodox Christian, am dead set against political conversations in general on a forum dedicated to the faith. I have seen enough in history and in the types of conversations that this topic brews to know such a topic leads only to the degenration of the mind and antagonism between fellow men. To argue policies of a secular government from a religious standing point only worsens the matter; and for those of us who do not believe in democracy, it encourages only sadness and leads to our outcast.

Render unto Caesar that which is his; preferably in a different forum.

Just my two cents,
peace, and may God bless you all.

-Justin

[Bono Vox]

Render unto Caesar that which is his;

I find it interesting that so many Christians are so quick to "Render unto Ceaser". Perhaps we should focous more on rendering unto God?

Bagpiper in da house!!!!!!!!!!!

He shall have dominion!

[Nacho]

I find it interesting that so many Christians are so quick to "Render unto Ceaser". Perhaps we should focous more on rendering unto God?

LoL....Orthodox Bagpiper. Good way of putting it. I also wondered why so many christians feel like government should take care of everyone. I could have sworn that Christ commanded the "WE" take care of the downtrodden, not a secular government. Must have missed that in bible 101.........

[Jennifer]

LoL....Orthodox Bagpiper. Good way of putting it. I also wondered why so many christians feel like government should take care of everyone. I could have sworn that Christ commanded the "WE" take care of the downtrodden, not a secular government. Must have missed that in bible 101.........  

We catholics don't go to "Bible 101" because we are not Bible literalists.  

As for why "so many Christians" believe that government has a duty to promote the general welfare, I would suggest that belief is based in the catholic understanding of government.  The Roman Catholic Church teaches that society is required to help the less fortunate.  (Catechism #2288)  The RC also teaches that society must promote "social justice."  

And, btw, I assume as a logical assumption of this post that you do not expect our "secular government" to promote Christian values such as life and hetrosexual marriage.  

[Jennifer]

Nacho, for more information on the catholic understanding of social justice see the following link.

http://www.tcrnews2.com/economics2cw.html

[Nacho]

As for why "so many Christians" believe that government has a duty to promote the general welfare, I would suggest that belief is based in the catholic understanding of government.  The Roman Catholic Church teaches that society is required to help the less fortunate.  (Catechism #2288)  The RC also teaches that society must promote "social justice."

I  beleive in "social justice" up to a point. I think that point has been crossed a long time ago by our federal government that thinks it's a great idea to tax people so heavily that an average worker works the first 5 months for the government for free paying his/her "fair" share of taxes. If you could also please enlighten us, where in the bible or church history does it show any major support for secular governments taking care of everyone. I thought this was the Church's job? Must have missed that also in church history 101.....

[Jennifer]

You only believe in "social justice" up to a point?  That's a very telling statement.  

I think there's a lot you missed in "Church History 101."  I suggest you read the above link.

[Nacho]

You only believe in "social justice" up to a point?  That's a very telling statement.  
I think there's a lot you missed in "Church History 101."  I suggest you read the above link

Yea, I sure missed those great teachings by the church fathers on the role of government in society & how they should provide for us all.

[OrthServ86]

Glory to Jesus Christ!

I feel I should clarify:

When I said "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's," I continued with "prefereably in a different forum." That is to say, if you are interested in discussing politics and you think that they take are worth discussing at all ( I know I don't think so), then please, do so on another forum.

So I would kindly ask that you take into consideration the spirit of the entirety of my message before accusing me (if that is what you were doing, if not, then forgive this message and please correct my error of understanding) of idle chatter and forgetting the prominence of rendering unto God that which is his.

Peace be upon you all   ,

-Justin

[Schultz]

If you could also please enlighten us, where in the bible or church history does it show any major support for secular governments taking care of everyone.

Where in the Bible or Church history do we find the Fathers talking about a Democratic or Republican form of government?  They all lived under an absolute monarchy, practically speaking, where the government DID take care of everyone: that's the role of the monarch, to provide for his subjects.

Of course there's no discussion of the role of our particular form of goverment amongst the Fathers because it didn't exist when they were writing.

Just food for thought.  I'm for the total ban of political discussion because it just ends up with Nacho and Jennifer trying to prove how big their respective....

...oh, excuse me, there I go again.

[J]

Those Mike Savage quotes are great, particularly the first two.  Not since Goebbells have we had such outstanding one-liners.

[Jennifer]

Where in the Bible or Church history do we find the Fathers talking about a Democratic or Republican form of government?  They all lived under an absolute monarchy, practically speaking, where the government DID take care of everyone: that's the role of the monarch, to provide for his subjects.

Of course there's no discussion of the role of our particular form of goverment amongst the Fathers because it didn't exist when they were writing.

Just food for thought.  I'm for the total ban of political discussion because it just ends up with Nacho and Jennifer trying to prove how big their respective....

...oh, excuse me, there I go again.

I don't have a "respective..."  Although maybe Freud was right and I have some #@!! envy.  

I support either a total ban on political topics or a moderated forum.  And by total, I mean total, meaning that posts like the one in the Christian news forum about Kerry violate the ban.  

[Bono Vox]

I think that if people don't like to talk about politics, then they should just stay off of a political thread. No one is forcing anyone to be on a particular thread or read anything political. If one doesn't want to talk politics, which is part of life, then they should self impose a ban on themselves.

Bagpiper

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