Author Topic: Do Individuals Belong to Rites?  (Read 1048 times)

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Offline OrthoNoob

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Do Individuals Belong to Rites?
« on: January 10, 2013, 07:53:38 PM »
This is just a quick question, but basically:

Does an individual belong to a Rite in the way that he belongs to a "particular Church" in Catholicism? For instance, I will almost certainly be baptized in a Byzantine-Rite parish. If I move to another city and start attending a Western Rite parish, am I then considered WRO, bound by the WR fasting and prayer rules and not the BR ones, etc.? Or am I still a Byzantine just attending a Western parish until I make a formal transfer, like in the RCC?
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Offline mike

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Re: Do Individuals Belong to Rites?
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2013, 08:05:23 PM »
IMO it's wise to keep fasting etc. either how it's done at the parish you attend or the one suggested by your spiritual father (if you have one). Nothing about that "rite bounding".

Offline choy

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Re: Do Individuals Belong to Rites?
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2013, 08:16:30 PM »
This is just a quick question, but basically:

Does an individual belong to a Rite in the way that he belongs to a "particular Church" in Catholicism? For instance, I will almost certainly be baptized in a Byzantine-Rite parish. If I move to another city and start attending a Western Rite parish, am I then considered WRO, bound by the WR fasting and prayer rules and not the BR ones, etc.? Or am I still a Byzantine just attending a Western parish until I make a formal transfer, like in the RCC?

The WR has a different Fasting routine?

Offline OrthoNoob

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Re: Do Individuals Belong to Rites?
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2013, 08:38:27 PM »
This is just a quick question, but basically:

Does an individual belong to a Rite in the way that he belongs to a "particular Church" in Catholicism? For instance, I will almost certainly be baptized in a Byzantine-Rite parish. If I move to another city and start attending a Western Rite parish, am I then considered WRO, bound by the WR fasting and prayer rules and not the BR ones, etc.? Or am I still a Byzantine just attending a Western parish until I make a formal transfer, like in the RCC?

The WR has a different Fasting routine?

It depends.

I visited the website of one WR parish and got the fasting rules they follow.

Abstinence means abstinence from meat only, with no restrictions on number, size, or timing of meals, and is practiced on Fridays.

Fasting limits the number, size, and timing of meals, but not the type of food, and is practiced on weekdays during Lent (along with abstinence), Wednesdays during Advent, and various special days (usually with abstinence).

By and large my research shows more fasting and less abstinence in the Western tradition, but no uniform rule for WRO.
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Offline Melodist

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Re: Do Individuals Belong to Rites?
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2013, 08:52:39 PM »
This is just a quick question, but basically:

Does an individual belong to a Rite in the way that he belongs to a "particular Church" in Catholicism? For instance, I will almost certainly be baptized in a Byzantine-Rite parish. If I move to another city and start attending a Western Rite parish, am I then considered WRO, bound by the WR fasting and prayer rules and not the BR ones, etc.? Or am I still a Byzantine just attending a Western parish until I make a formal transfer, like in the RCC?

Follow the advice of St Ambrose.

Quote from: http://www.catholicfiction.gadel.info/2012/02/saint-ambrose-quotes-and-sayings.html#axzz2HcjpN7KK
When I go to Rome, I fast on Saturday, but in Milan I do not. Do you also follow the custom of whatever church you attend, if you do not want to give or receive scandal. ~St. Ambrose of Milan
And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

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Re: Do Individuals Belong to Rites?
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2013, 08:54:59 PM »

Follow the advice of St Ambrose.

Quote from: http://www.catholicfiction.gadel.info/2012/02/saint-ambrose-quotes-and-sayings.html#axzz2HcjpN7KK
When I go to Rome, I fast on Saturday, but in Milan I do not. Do you also follow the custom of whatever church you attend, if you do not want to give or receive scandal. ~St. Ambrose of Milan

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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Do Individuals Belong to Rites?
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2013, 09:22:03 PM »
No, no one belongs to a rite, or even to a parish. If you have one, follow the instructions of your spiritual father. Do that to which you are accustomed. The advice of St. Ambrose, it seems to me, applies not to personal private practice but when in public. If you're invited to someone's house and they're eating, eat.
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Offline Sleeper

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Re: Do Individuals Belong to Rites?
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2013, 10:31:16 PM »
This is just a quick question, but basically:

Does an individual belong to a Rite in the way that he belongs to a "particular Church" in Catholicism? For instance, I will almost certainly be baptized in a Byzantine-Rite parish. If I move to another city and start attending a Western Rite parish, am I then considered WRO, bound by the WR fasting and prayer rules and not the BR ones, etc.? Or am I still a Byzantine just attending a Western parish until I make a formal transfer, like in the RCC?

The WR has a different Fasting routine?

It depends.

I visited the website of one WR parish and got the fasting rules they follow.

Abstinence means abstinence from meat only, with no restrictions on number, size, or timing of meals, and is practiced on Fridays.

Fasting limits the number, size, and timing of meals, but not the type of food, and is practiced on weekdays during Lent (along with abstinence), Wednesdays during Advent, and various special days (usually with abstinence).

By and large my research shows more fasting and less abstinence in the Western tradition, but no uniform rule for WRO.


The fasting rules for Antioch have changed, effective this liturgical year. It is much closer to the Byzantine Rite and is based on 9th century Western fasting rules. Basically, there are no differences between fasting days and abstinence days like their used to be. Every fast day is also an abstinence day, meaning one must watch the particular food they eat, as well as how much. This is typically one full meal a day, taken after noon. This now includes Mondays during Advent, and will apply to all days of Lent, except Sundays.

As for the OP question, for Antiochians, the establishing edict says:

There can be no transference from one rite to another without special dispensation. Such dispensations shall be granted only to: (a) the faithful of one rite who permanently dwell in the parochial limits of another rite and have no church of their own rite to attend; (b) to Priests appointed for specific missionary duties; otherwise there shall be no "bi-ritual" privileges for any cleric of the Archdiocese; and (c) to women who marry men of another rite automatically join the husband's rite.

I do not know if adjustments have been made to this or if this is fully enforced or not.

Offline Joseph Hazen

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Re: Do Individuals Belong to Rites?
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2013, 04:04:38 AM »
This is just a quick question, but basically:

Does an individual belong to a Rite in the way that he belongs to a "particular Church" in Catholicism? For instance, I will almost certainly be baptized in a Byzantine-Rite parish. If I move to another city and start attending a Western Rite parish, am I then considered WRO, bound by the WR fasting and prayer rules and not the BR ones, etc.? Or am I still a Byzantine just attending a Western parish until I make a formal transfer, like in the RCC?

The WR has a different Fasting routine?

It depends.

I visited the website of one WR parish and got the fasting rules they follow.

Abstinence means abstinence from meat only, with no restrictions on number, size, or timing of meals, and is practiced on Fridays.

Fasting limits the number, size, and timing of meals, but not the type of food, and is practiced on weekdays during Lent (along with abstinence), Wednesdays during Advent, and various special days (usually with abstinence).

By and large my research shows more fasting and less abstinence in the Western tradition, but no uniform rule for WRO.


The fasting rules for Antioch have changed, effective this liturgical year. It is much closer to the Byzantine Rite and is based on 9th century Western fasting rules. Basically, there are no differences between fasting days and abstinence days like their used to be. Every fast day is also an abstinence day, meaning one must watch the particular food they eat, as well as how much. This is typically one full meal a day, taken after noon. This now includes Mondays during Advent, and will apply to all days of Lent, except Sundays.

As for the OP question, for Antiochians, the establishing edict says:

There can be no transference from one rite to another without special dispensation. Such dispensations shall be granted only to: (a) the faithful of one rite who permanently dwell in the parochial limits of another rite and have no church of their own rite to attend; (b) to Priests appointed for specific missionary duties; otherwise there shall be no "bi-ritual" privileges for any cleric of the Archdiocese; and (c) to women who marry men of another rite automatically join the husband's rite.

I do not know if adjustments have been made to this or if this is fully enforced or not.

No offense to Antiochian individuals, but this is asinine and a step backwards as regards ethnocentrism. Rome does this type of thing, and ever since I really looked at it I've thought it racist. If I lived in a town with a Western and Eastern parish I shouldn't go back and forth every other Sunday, but I also am not 'bound' by which parish I attend any more than I'm 'bound' to stay Serbian just because I was Chrismated Serbian. Orthodox is Orthodox!

My wife was Chrismated Western Orthodox. We still have some Western practices because of it, and I've attended her old Western Rite parish with her when we visit the area. She is not bound by Western praxis though.

You should follow the practices of the parish you attend. That's always been the way before.

(of course clergy is a different story)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2013, 04:10:00 AM by Joseph Hazen »

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Re: Do Individuals Belong to Rites?
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2013, 04:26:13 AM »
The fasting rules for Antioch have changed, effective this liturgical year. It is much closer to the Byzantine Rite and is based on 9th century Western fasting rules. Basically, there are no differences between fasting days and abstinence days like their used to be. Every fast day is also an abstinence day, meaning one must watch the particular food they eat, as well as how much. This is typically one full meal a day, taken after noon. This now includes Mondays during Advent, and will apply to all days of Lent, except Sundays.

As for the OP question, for Antiochians, the establishing edict says:

There can be no transference from one rite to another without special dispensation. Such dispensations shall be granted only to: (a) the faithful of one rite who permanently dwell in the parochial limits of another rite and have no church of their own rite to attend; (b) to Priests appointed for specific missionary duties; otherwise there shall be no "bi-ritual" privileges for any cleric of the Archdiocese; and (c) to women who marry men of another rite automatically join the husband's rite.

I do not know if adjustments have been made to this or if this is fully enforced or not.
This seems confusing. It seems it would depend alot on how they define "rite" The only time I've heard of a separate "rite" being set up in Orthodoxy is the Western Rite done by Antiochians. No one in Orthodoxy I remember talking about dividing "Russian Rite" and "Greek Rite", although priests talk about the ways Russians and Greeks do things different in secondary customary details, the most obvious being Church Slavic vs. Biblical Greek.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2013, 04:26:50 AM by rakovsky »

Offline mike

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Re: Do Individuals Belong to Rites?
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2013, 07:31:30 AM »
No, no one belongs to a rite, or even to a parish.

I would disagree with "not belonging to a parish".

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Do Individuals Belong to Rites?
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2013, 02:47:34 PM »
No, no one belongs to a rite, or even to a parish.

I would disagree with "not belonging to a parish".

It just seems to me that the concept of parish membership is neither universal nor essential.
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