We all know your feelings on this matter Linus, and despite your attempts to present yourself as some sort of bloodless martyr and custodian of the Faith, no one here hates you.
I have not attempted to "present myself" as anything.
I have only argued that Eastern Orthodox should be true to what the Fathers and Councils had to say.
Antonious Nikolas: I believe that the moderators have made it clear that orthodoxchristianity.net is not an "Eastern Orthodox" forum or an "Oriental Orthodox" forum, but simply and "Orthodox forum" which includes both Church families.
I now believe that you are probably right about that.
Such a configuration is a problem for me, as I think it is impossible to maintain such a position without implicating oneself in the errors one has pronounced "Orthodox."
Where the Fathers and Councils have spoken clearly, we ought not contradict them. To do so is to oppose the Holy Spirit.
I don't believe there are "Church families" that include those the Fathers and Councils anathematized for their errors.
Antonious Nikolas: This doesn't derive from "political correctness" or any other modernism, but rather from a belief that we truly do share the same Orthodox Faith.
I see things differently.
It strikes me that those Eastern Orthodox who say the Non-Chalcedonians are Orthodox 1) do not know what they are talking about, or 2) do not think the issues involved are important, or 3) think it is more important to please others and get along with them than to risk appearing hardheaded or uncharitable while maintaining fidelity to the teachings of the Fathers.
Antonious Nikolas: There are others who post here, both EO and OO, who obviously don't share that belief. Like you, they believe that one side or the other is not Orthodox.
And they are correct.
Both sides cannot be right in this case.
Antonious Nikolas: The difference is that they do not conduct themselves in a petulent or belligerent manner and then complain of "personal attacks" when someone takes the bait and responds in kind.
The viewpoint you express above is unjustified.
Examine my posts. They may be blunt, but I do not engage in the same sorts of attacks that were perpetrated against me.
You have already implied that I am "petulant" and "belligerent." But that's okay. I have been called much worse by Non-Chalcedonians.
BTW, I don't set out bait. In fact, I actually avoid responding to things in this forum unless I feel it is really necessary.
Antonious Nikolas: I'm not attacking you right now, although you may feel that I am, but merely pointing out why you appear to be so "unpopular" among certain people.
Of course not.
You are merely assessing my character and focusing your comments on me and my petulance, belligerance, and apparent martyr complex.
I am used to that on this forum.
Antonious Nikolas: It is not because we disagree with you (because we also disagree with others) it is because your posts seem to be smug and self-righteous. It is not because you take a stand for Holy Orthodoxy (because others do as well), it is because you appear to be presenting yourself as a morally and intellectually superior individual, a paragon of righteousness, while the rest of us are craven liberals seeking to compromise the Faith to please men.
These comments are illustrative of what it is like to engage in discussion on this forum.
Doctrine very quickly goes by the wayside, as does history.
Instead one must endure the implication that he is "smug and self righteous" or is presenting himself as "a morally and intellectually superior individual, a paragon of righteousness."
Why do I
always become the subject of these discussions?
They are not really about me
, after all.
Antonious Nikolas: Take the following statement: "This is an attitude or mindset that, if allowed to grow, will infect the visible Orthodox Church and rot it from the inside, until only a remnant remains that possesses the Deposit of Faith whole and intact.
May the Lord have mercy and give us the strength to stand firm in that day."
The flowery and dramatic language seems to give the impression that you consider yourself some sort of prophet or modern day St. Athanasius, defending the Faith against the heretics, and that if the Eastern Orthodox Church decided to re-enter into Communion with us under circumstances of which you personally didn't approve, then it would be she who was in error, not you and your "righteous remnant", whoever they may be. On top of that, you are never willing to identify your jurisdiction. For all we know, you could already be a part of a group which even now considers itself a "righteous remnant" while all of "world Orthodoxy" has embarked upon ecumenist heresy. Or, you could be a part of a Church (like the Antiochians) who already admits us freely to the Chalice. One can only speculate since you choose to maintain an aura of mystery. (At least this is the case when I have asked you this question directly, which I have on several occasions. If you have revealed it elsewhere, please let me know.)
I don't consider myself much of anything, but I am responsible to be true to my Lord and to the saints and Fathers and Councils He has inspired.
I have revealed my jurisdiction frequently on this web site.
I did not reveal it when you or whoever it was asked because I did not feel the discussion should be about me.
I am familiar with the history of prior attempts to appease Non-Chalcedonians without requiring them to repent and accept the Orthodox faith. Often there seemed to be legions of compliant Eastern bishops, eager to distort the faith to please the Emperor and/or to achieve a cheap union.
The faith was then preserved by the stalwart few who did not deviate from what the Fathers and Councils taught.
It doesn't really matter how many bishops say the Non-Chalcedonians are Orthodox.
The Fathers and Councils said otherwise.
I know it, and there are others who know it, as well.
Some of them are bishops, too.
Antonious Nikolas: Please understand that this is not a personal attack.
Of course it's not!
It's all a matter of terminology, isn't it?
Could it be that I have merely misunderstood you?
Antonious Nikolas: I actually like you, and enjoy our conversations in the free-for-all section and elsewhere. But just as you feel compelled to be the "Orthodox police" and jump in to call rustavelli on what you see as his "dangerous ecumenist" tendencies, I find it necessary to challenge your portrayal of yourself as someone being picked on and persecuted simply for taking a stand for the Faith, when that is clearly not the case.
Falsehood, not merely "dangerous ecumenist tendencies."
Think what you will of me.
At least you know what I think.
Antonoius Nikolas: I hope that you will take this in the spirit in which it was written. There are others here who feel that we Non-Chalcedonians are not Orthodox, and they have said as much in their posts, but they don't draw the kind of flak you do, because their manner is not as brusque or self-righteous.
There are others?
Aristokles is about it, besides me.
Most of those who do not think the Non-Chalcedonians are Orthodox have moved on.