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Author Topic: Baptism Question  (Read 621 times) Average Rating: 0
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J Michael
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« on: May 13, 2011, 02:20:03 PM »

I was once told by an Orthodox priest that *any* baptism done with the formula "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" was valid-with or without sprinkling or immersion, and even at the hands of a lay person.  Is this correct?
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« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2011, 03:11:39 PM »

It depends on how you qualify "any." Are we talking about Orthodox baptisms? Heterodox baptisms? Both? A statement so broad without qualification does not hold up to truth. Also, the wold "valid" is not an Orthodox concept. The priest was wrong or misspoke, or this quote is out of context. Either way, it is a complicated matter that requires definition of terms.
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« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2011, 03:17:05 PM »

As far as the laymen thing, an Orthodox laymen can only baptize in a case of extreme emergency, and if they happen to escape the emergency situation, then further steps are supposed to be taken with regards to the sacraments and full participation in Church life.
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J Michael
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« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2011, 03:22:22 PM »

It depends on how you qualify "any." Are we talking about Orthodox baptisms? Heterodox baptisms? Both? A statement so broad without qualification does not hold up to truth. Also, the wold "valid" is not an Orthodox concept. The priest was wrong or misspoke, or this quote is out of context. Either way, it is a complicated matter that requires definition of terms.

He didn't specify, and unfortunately, at the time those present (myself included) really didn't know enough to ask about "heterodox" or whatever.  It was in the context of a "discussion" group during which there were always multiple digressions.  If I recall correctly he was saying something about emergency baptisms and it went on from there.
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« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2011, 04:21:43 PM »

Former SCOBA (Standing Conference of Orthodox Bishops in the Americas) since May, 2010 American Episcopal Assembly) ecclesial jurisdictions, generally accept baptisms in the name of the Holy Trinity, even with only sprinkling (affusion?), of Trinitarian professing Christian denominations, such as Roman Catholic, Episcopalian, Lutheran, Presbyterian, United Methodist, Baptist, Pentecostal, Assembly of God Churches, etc., asserting that the Holy Chrism of Orthodoxy validates the baptisms of these churches.  Except for the Ecumenical Patriarchate (and possibly the Antiochian Patriarchate, I'm not sure), by and large, the Holy Orthodox Churches, including ROCOR, typically, do not accept Christian baptism as indicated herein. The separated Traditionalist Orthodox (aka Old Calendar) ecclesial jurisdictions do not accept the baptisms of the heterodox. (This description is distinct from "emergency" baptisms.)
« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 04:31:20 PM by Basil 320 » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2011, 05:18:27 PM »

Each Orthodox Christian is allowed to perform a baptism in emergency situations.
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« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2011, 07:06:44 PM »

I read a story once of a Russian family who were having a newborn child that was not breathing (somewhere in the 1300's).  
The mother and father were panicking and the child was turning even darker purple and not taking its first breath.

As the baby was dying the father took it and baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit without water.

The church recognized the baptism, and the baby was buried as an Orthodox Christian.   

I wish I could find this story, because I really stink at telling it.  It's much more heart wrenching and beautiful.
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« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2011, 07:12:33 PM »

Former SCOBA (Standing Conference of Orthodox Bishops in the Americas) since May, 2010 American Episcopal Assembly) ecclesial jurisdictions, generally accept baptisms in the name of the Holy Trinity, even with only sprinkling (affusion?), of Trinitarian professing Christian denominations, such as Roman Catholic, Episcopalian, Lutheran, Presbyterian, United Methodist, Baptist, Pentecostal, Assembly of God Churches, etc., asserting that the Holy Chrism of Orthodoxy validates the baptisms of these churches.

Plenty of Pentecostals are not Trinitarian.
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« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2011, 10:33:50 AM »

baptisms in the name of the Holy Trinity, even with only sprinkling (affusion?)
sprinkling = aspersion; pouring = affusion
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