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Author Topic: Do Protestants have priests?  (Read 1447 times) Average Rating: 0
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pasadi97
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« on: May 13, 2011, 10:09:51 AM »

Before Holy Spirit would be sent to Earth on Pentecost there was no Christian Church? Why? Because Christian food means making people Children of God that is to baptize people and to give them food for eternal life.
Both the transformation of bread and wine and the baptism is done by God, by Holy Spirit.

In orthodox Christianity a priest is a man that received the ordination from Bishop the Apostle in our times. As seen by many people with soul vision even today the Eastern Orthodox Priests have fire on their head like the Apostles had on Pentecost. See the fire on Apostles Head in this icon? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e3/Icon-Pentecost.jpg This fire is Holy Spirit received at oprdination that appears like fire.  So having Holy Spirit the priest can perform baptism and Holy Eucharist.

So basically the concern is that the pastors in Protestantism not receiving ordination, not receiving the Holy Spirit through ordination,  what would happen with baptism and other things they do? How valid are they? I hope they are but there are some quetions we need to ask.

Today I believe I know more.I know that I should look for eternal life and entrance to heaven that Jesus brought:

Word of God has said for everybody:

JN 6:53 Jesus therefore said to them, "Most certainly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you don't have life in yourselves.

Who said the above verse? Did you find the words 'Most certainly'?  What do they mean? Can you please find for me word symbol in the verse above ? How about 'words'. Can you eat words? When was the last time you did that? How about finding the word 'nothing' above? This is about eternal life. Last time when Eve missed the boat, there were some consequences. Would the words let the dead bury their dead reffer to people not having Holy Communion?

JN 3:5 Jesus answered, "Most certainly I tell you, unless one is born of water and spirit, he can't enter into the Kingdom of God!

Who said the above verse? Did you find the words 'Most certainly'?  What do they mean? Do you find above 'praying 5 times a day' , words? How about not eating pork? How about meditation 3 times a day for 20 min?

Baptism means being born of water and spirit and it is found in Christianity. So on this Earth you may need to be baptized to exchange this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv-VlJnDvuw. with this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxU3LDDMeaM  .

I do not understand what the 2 phrases and these are not from an orthodox Bible but they can say this. To get immortal you need to partake food for eternal life. To get to Heaven http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxU3LDDMeaM  you need to be baptized otherwise the destination can be http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv-VlJnDvuw.

   Regarding food for eternal life these are the possibilities:

      -Eastern Orthodox Church , EOC like the Church of Greece, Romania, Russia and the Four ancient Patriarchates . All the Churches in the Bible are today in EOC but the Church of Rome. Like a mother, this Church gives yourself both food for eternal life and baptism for entrance to Heaven

      -Roman Catholic Church. It is so very close of EOC. However, while sometime priest commune like in Ancient Church with both wine and bread, parishioners may get only bread and even that bread is not the bread used in Early Church for 1000 years , it is changed to the Bread of Old Law, unleavened bread. If bread would be enough and I hope for the sake off Roman Catholics that it is , would Jesus not know that bread is enough? Why would be this a mystery for Early Church for 1000 years as historical documents show since Early Church communed both with wine and bread and Jesus gave Apostles wine and bread not only bread? I don't believe that Jesus would not know that flesh contains blood?  If bread would be enough ,why would Apostles would give both to people and Church would give both to people for 1000 years? Also the spirit of Einstein, of invention has entered the realm of obtaining food for eternal life, sometime changing bread type, or sometime taking out prayer like the invocation of God to obtain food for eternal life. So I don't know. You want to be sure, EOC . May God help people of  Roman Catholicism come back to orthodoxy.

      -In my understanding protestantism may have told to food for eternal life bye bye in many ways replacing it with symbols, words or nothing and the spirit of invention , of human teachings   has become unimaginable. If words would have been enough, would Jesus not know that words were enough? Why would he say what he said above? How about Apostles. If so, why would Apostles write in year 60 Holy Liturgy centered on food for eternal life? Why would have the Early Church from beginning for 1500+ years Holy Liturgies? If you want for Protestantism to decide for you that you don't need food for eternal life, it is your call. May God help Protestantism come back to orthodoxy.

      -In my understanding other religions might have already decided for yourself that this is where you want to go after death http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv-VlJnDvuw instead of here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxU3LDDMeaM&feature=related and that you might not need food for eternal life.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 10:12:39 AM by pasadi97 » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2011, 11:46:27 AM »

So is OC.net your personal blog now?
 
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« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2011, 02:47:08 PM »

Granted, I probably have a pretty heretical ecclesiology for one who is considered Orthodox, but this is my take on it:

1) There is but one Church, and only in that Church is the fullness of Grace found.  Only in that Church is the assurance that the mysteries are valid and that Salvation is possible.  Christ Himself likens the Church to a fold where He is the Shepherd, and His sheep hear His voice.

2) Christ also says that He has other sheep who are not in this fold.  In other words, there are Christians who are not members of the Orthodox Church.

3) The rules and the canons of the Orthodox Church apply to the Orthodox Church.  They apply to none other.  However, since these rules are given by the influence of the Holy Spirit, one is a great peril living outside of them, either within or without the Church.

4)  God decides who He is going to Save, and upon whom He will bestow His Grace.  His Grace is a gift to us, NOT anything that we deserve or earn.  As such, who are we to tell God to whom He can and cannot bestow His Gifts?  There is evidence that His Grace does not exist outside the Church, and for our part, as Orthodox Christians, we must act under that assumption and NOT intercommune with heretics or others outside the Church.  Nor should we neglect the command to make disciples of all nations.

5) Given the above, I can see no real certain statement that can be made to answer the question in all cases and for all times.  If God chooses to reveal Himself directly to a Hindu, and that Hindu then believes in Him without ever coming in contact with the Church, are we to say that He cannot be saved? What gives us the right?  Is God our toy; does He take commands from us?  I believe that the Office of the Keys applies to those in the Church, not to those outside of the Church.

6) Likewise, if God wishes to bestow His Grace upon a pastor in a non-Orthodox church, a sheep outside of the fold, what business is that of ours?  It still does not mean that we are to take communion from this pastor since we have canons that deal with these things.  It should also be our desire to bring this man into our fold.  However, if he and his congregation reject the Church because of the sinfullness, laxity, and in some cases, outright heresy that he sees of people who call themselves Orthodox, upon whom is that sin?  Is it upon the heterodox pastor, or upon those who claim to be Orthodox but are not?  And, if in such a case, God chose to bestow His Grace upon this man, what business is it of ours?  We should praise God that His Mercy is so vast, and beg His forgiveness that our witness is so weak.

That is my opinion.  Excommunicate me if you don't like it.
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« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2011, 12:04:27 PM »

2) Christ also says that He has other sheep who are not in this fold.  In other words, there are Christians who are not members of the Orthodox Church.

Are you sure about this interpretation? I would think that this passage was talking about gentiles vs. jews, not Orthodox vs. non-Orthodox. Christ ministered mostly to the Jews, and he explicitly said that he had come to the Jews. I would think that Gentiles, "all nations," were the other sheep.
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« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2011, 05:39:49 PM »

2) Christ also says that He has other sheep who are not in this fold.  In other words, there are Christians who are not members of the Orthodox Church.

Are you sure about this interpretation? I would think that this passage was talking about gentiles vs. jews, not Orthodox vs. non-Orthodox. Christ ministered mostly to the Jews, and he explicitly said that he had come to the Jews. I would think that Gentiles, "all nations," were the other sheep.

I am pretty sure, but that does not mean anything beyond my little world.  The whole passage needs to be taken in context.  In the first part of John 10, Jesus speaks of others who have come, yet the sheep rejected them because they were not Him.  This could be anyone.  The Jews are the least likely to be spoken of here because the ones that came to the Jews, the Prophets, were not false but true, and the Jews rejected them just as they now reject Christ.  He says that the sheep hear His voice.  The Jews crucified Him.  They did not hear His voice.  However, what of the Gentiles that did seek after Him?  I don’t believe that this parable is a “point in time” parable.  I believe it is eternal.  Just as Christ came for the Jews (who were at the time at least nominally the Sheep of God), their rejection of Him makes the Church that fold now.  And, Christ still comes to those outside the fold with the hope of making them one with the True fold.  The question is; do they hear His voice and accept Him, or reject Him.

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« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2011, 07:38:18 PM »

If you want to know whether they refer to their clergy by the title 'Priest,' the answer would be that most do not. There are a few exceptions, such as the Anglicans and some of the Lutherans.
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« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2011, 03:04:38 PM »

If you want to know whether they refer to their clergy by the title 'Priest,' the answer would be that most do not. There are a few exceptions, such as the Anglicans and some of the Lutherans.

That is true.

Father Cutie, formerly of the Catholic Church, and now re-ordained as an Episcopalian, is still addressed as "Father Cutie" and he still wears the Roman Collar.

And then there are strange groups of people (largely ex-Protestants) who call themselves "Orthodox Christians," but who also "ordain" women as deacons, priests, and bishops, and then address these female clerics as "Mother." Their synods are obviously not in communion with us.
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« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2011, 12:08:49 PM »

They usually call them "pastors" and sometimes "elders".

I have yet to hear protestants call them "priests".
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« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2011, 12:17:38 PM »

Are you sure about this interpretation? I would think that this passage was talking about gentiles vs. jews, not Orthodox vs. non-Orthodox. Christ ministered mostly to the Jews, and he explicitly said that he had come to the Jews. I would think that Gentiles, "all nations," were the other sheep.

There's other places to find such teachings. Like the Good Samaritan. That story might as well be called the Good Heretic in the OSB.
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« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2011, 05:30:25 PM »

For what it's worth*, according to the Catholic Church, Protestants don't have valid priests.


*Granted, that may not be very much, from the EO p.o.v., seeing as some EOs claim that Catholics don't have valid sacraments.
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« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2011, 02:02:51 PM »

Some, like the Anglican Communion, claim apostolic succession. Their orders aren't recognized by the Catholic Church, nor, to my knowledge, by the Eastern Orthodox.
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« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2011, 03:08:01 PM »

They usually call them "pastors" and sometimes "elders".

I have yet to hear protestants call them "priests".
Growing up in the Episcopal church we always refered to clergy as "priests" and addressed them as "Father". When ordination was opened to women, we called them priests also, but calling them "Mother" never caught on, mainly because that title was associated with women's religious orders.
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« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2011, 04:22:30 PM »

Well, I can say this. Here in the buckle of the Bible-Belt priest = catholic = satan.

Most folks in my neck of the woods basically state unless you've taken Jesus as your personal savior and have a personal relationship with him, you're going to hell because "even Satan will say jesus is the messiah, that dosent keep you outta hell".
Basically, Orthodox, RC's, Anglicans, Bhuddists, Aethiests, people who worship shoes, are all grouped together.
Yeah....have fun with that one Smiley

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« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2011, 04:40:57 PM »

have a personal relationship with him

I love this one.  Someone asked me if I have a personal relationship with Jesus, and I responded, "Well, I pray to Him, see Him, touch Him and eat Him, and He fills every part of my body.  What do you think?"
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« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2011, 04:48:48 PM »

have a personal relationship with him

I love this one.  Someone asked me if I have a personal relationship with Jesus, and I responded, "Well, I pray to Him, see Him, touch Him and eat Him, and He fills every part of my body.  What do you think?"

Great answer Father!  Smiley


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« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2011, 05:15:55 PM »

have a personal relationship with him

I love this one.  Someone asked me if I have a personal relationship with Jesus, and I responded, "Well, I pray to Him, see Him, touch Him and eat Him, and He fills every part of my body.  What do you think?"

I'll have to use that one sometime!

As to the OP, Protestants do have priests, but are they "valid" priests? I don't want to start anything, but I don't view the ordination I had as being valid although it was considered such by the organization I was ordained through and by the State... just my 2¢ worth
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