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Author Topic: Can heretics within the Church have valid sacraments? -questions to the RCs  (Read 456 times) Average Rating: 0
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pasadi97
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« on: May 12, 2011, 11:19:08 PM »

What I am concerned for Romano Catholicism is this:
1. Sometime priest communes with bread and wine and people, normal people receive just bread. Apostles knew that flesh contained blood however for 1000 years, from beginning, the Church taught to give people both wine and bread. Why would they nopt say either bread or bread and wine for Holy Eucharist?
2.Choosing unleavened bread like in Old Law instead of Leavened bread even if in Old Testament I believe it was a saying that bread will change
3.After Vatican II, the invocation to Holy spirit was restored and I think that this is good.
4.While making Holy water it resists less than Orthodox Holy water
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 11:21:24 PM by pasadi97 » Logged
deusveritasest
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« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2011, 11:21:39 PM »

3.After Vatican II, the invocation to Holy spirit was restored and I think that this is good.

Except now it's in the wrong order, before the Words of Institution, indicating an unrelenting belief that the Words of Institution are the consecratory prayer.
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James Joseph
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« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2011, 08:35:22 PM »

What I am concerned for Romano Catholicism is this:

Regarding heretics having valid Sacraments, we must remember the word "You are priest forever". The Sacrament is irreversible. The man is free to destroy himself, to destroy his icon of Christ. God regards His Faithful and exercises His Mercy. Christ is the High-Priest. The man is the one who stands in His place at the Mars Tsaba.

Quote from: pasadi97
1. Sometime priest communes with bread and wine and people, normal people receive just bread. Apostles knew that flesh contained blood however for 1000 years, from beginning, the Church taught to give people both wine and bread. Why would they nopt say either bread or bread and wine for Holy Eucharist?
The True Blood courses through the True Flesh always. The practice you are referring to is called tincture. There are four methods of tincture used. Some are clearly better than others. I am protective of the Sacred Vessels. I do not want them profaned and adhere to the practice that allows only priests and deacons to handle them. In this way, the preferred tincture is dipping the His holy Flesh in the His sacred Blood; the communicant receiving in the mouth like an innocent child. It is worth saying again. Reception of either the Flesh or the Blood is reception of both sacred species since His Life is always running through His Flesh.

Quote from: pasadi97
2.Choosing unleavened bread like in Old Law instead of Leavened bread even if in Old Testament I believe it was a saying that bread will change
This is a matter of discipline. It is lovely in that in the East leavened wheat is employed while in the West unleavened wheat is the discipline. Please consider that it allows a ritual focus on the Mystery from a different viewpoint where Latins draw heavily from the Passion of Christ. Ultimately, the matter that is neccessary for the Sacrament is grapes and wheat. I think of priest who was imprisoned in a labour camp who had but a thimble with dried grapes soaked in holy water and a few grains of wheat. As the holy Family, poor in pocessions but rich in blessings, brought turtledoves to the Temple when they could not afford a lamb. Let us rejoice. The Almighty is a good God, He Who regards our poverty and our wealth and He Who properly expects us to return to Him what He has given us.


Quote from: pasadi97
3.After Vatican II, the invocation to Holy spirit was restored and I think that this is good.
The invocation to the holy Spirit was always substantially present. That should not be cause for concern. It was always implied. This a red-herring issue that hard-liners on both sides pushed in the lack of understanding.

Quote from: pasadi97
4.While making Holy water it resists less than Orthodox Holy water

I am unsure what the question. I can say this. It is Christ who performs the action. Notwithstanding, the greater the sanctity of the priest the greater incurred effication. Obviously, holy water from a good and holy bishop is something to be treasured, but we must still afford dignity to the holy water from even the most heretical of priests, for even they have the Hands of Christ.

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« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 08:37:27 PM by James Joseph » Logged
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