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Author Topic: Successor Hierarch for the ACROD?  (Read 22628 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #90 on: June 19, 2011, 07:07:46 PM »

Boring Saturday night, huh? You've failed to persuade me. Again, ACROD discussion (your closing comment does rise to that level)?
Since neither of us is in ACROD, of what was I supposed to persuade you in particular?

Er..Old buddy, I am "in" the ACROD. My wife refused to give up her "little old ladies with the doilies on their heads" and after several years of supporting two parishes - her CR and my Greek one, well...you get the picture.
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« Reply #91 on: June 19, 2011, 08:03:24 PM »

Boring Saturday night, huh? You've failed to persuade me. Again, ACROD discussion (your closing comment does rise to that level)?
Since neither of us is in ACROD, of what was I supposed to persuade you in particular?

Er..Old buddy, I am "in" the ACROD. My wife refused to give up her "little old ladies with the doilies on their heads" and after several years of supporting two parishes - her CR and my Greek one, well...you get the picture.
My apologies for [my] error.  I went by what your avatar said.  Being in ACROD by marriage is enough.

That said, I still don't know what I am supposed to persuade you in particular.  Bottom line, whoever is picked, he still won't be the bishop of Johnstown I expect, won't be drawn from either Subcarpathia or Slovakia or even the Czech Republic, and still will be dealing with the Metropolitan of the Czech Lands and Slovakia not as his Mother Church, but as representative of the Phanar.  (had the OCA not made a similar mistake with Russia, there may not have been any ACROD).
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« Reply #92 on: June 19, 2011, 08:42:26 PM »

Boring Saturday night, huh? You've failed to persuade me. Again, ACROD discussion (your closing comment does rise to that level)?
Since neither of us is in ACROD, of what was I supposed to persuade you in particular?

Er..Old buddy, I am "in" the ACROD. My wife refused to give up her "little old ladies with the doilies on their heads" and after several years of supporting two parishes - her CR and my Greek one, well...you get the picture.

And these 'little old ladies', they are different from yiayias exactly how?   Wink
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« Reply #93 on: June 19, 2011, 08:47:51 PM »

Boring Saturday night, huh? You've failed to persuade me. Again, ACROD discussion (your closing comment does rise to that level)?
Since neither of us is in ACROD, of what was I supposed to persuade you in particular?

Er..Old buddy, I am "in" the ACROD. My wife refused to give up her "little old ladies with the doilies on their heads" and after several years of supporting two parishes - her CR and my Greek one, well...you get the picture.

And these 'little old ladies', they are different from yiayias exactly how?   Wink
Accent.
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« Reply #94 on: June 19, 2011, 08:49:09 PM »

"I'm sure there are candidates, but finding one who is actually willing to move and live in Johnstown is another issue. The diocese headquarters are nice but Johnstown is the definition of a rust belt city."

Would someone worthy of election as a bishop really balk on the location of his cathedral rather than the responsibilities of the episcopacy itself? (As they say on SNL, "Really? Really?" ;-) )

I'm a realist.  The Cathedral complex is nice but Johnstown is scary.  Also ACROD has 80 parishes all handled by one bishop. That is a lot of parishes to visit if you are a bishop. 
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« Reply #95 on: June 19, 2011, 09:10:15 PM »

Given how the parishes are spread (if my memory serves me well anyways) Johnstown is pretty central...
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« Reply #96 on: June 19, 2011, 09:23:04 PM »

Given how the parishes are spread (if my memory serves me well anyways) Johnstown is pretty central...
Most parishes are in Pennsylvania, NJ, and NY, some in MD/dc area, some in Ohio, pretty much follow interstate 80 to indiana and that's the diocese.
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« Reply #97 on: June 19, 2011, 09:32:26 PM »

Si :-).
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« Reply #98 on: June 19, 2011, 09:48:40 PM »

Si :-).

Ok, well there are two in WV, creo que, y 1 in Canada, 1 in Manassas, VA, one in Florida, one in NC, then CT, RI, I don't think there are any in Mass. and then of course PA, Ohio, Indiana, Ill., that should cover it.
Oh NY and NJ.
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« Reply #99 on: June 19, 2011, 10:21:18 PM »

Given how the parishes are spread (if my memory serves me well anyways) Johnstown is pretty central...
Most parishes are in Pennsylvania, NJ, and NY, some in MD/dc area, some in Ohio, pretty much follow interstate 80 to indiana and that's the diocese.
you mean "to Chicago"
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« Reply #100 on: June 19, 2011, 10:25:36 PM »

Why not ordain carpathian hieromonks and create auxiliaries, if the diocese is so big?
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« Reply #101 on: June 19, 2011, 10:32:15 PM »

Why not ordain carpathian hieromonks and create auxiliaries, if the diocese is so big?
Wonder if its not covered in the terms of its union. Does anyone know where you can get the Constitution/Charter/Statute that ACROD operates under?
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« Reply #102 on: June 20, 2011, 07:44:05 AM »

Why not ordain carpathian hieromonks and create auxiliaries, if the diocese is so big?

Or make a metropolitanate and divide it into 2-3 normal dioceses?
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« Reply #103 on: June 20, 2011, 09:59:25 AM »

Why not ordain carpathian hieromonks and create auxiliaries, if the diocese is so big?

Or make a metropolitanate and divide it into 2-3 normal dioceses?
Again, I wonder if that isn't allowed under its union agreement.
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« Reply #104 on: June 20, 2011, 10:18:30 AM »

Why not ordain carpathian hieromonks and create auxiliaries, if the diocese is so big?

Or make a metropolitanate and divide it into 2-3 normal dioceses?
Again, I wonder if that isn't allowed under its union agreement.

The number of actual faithful is relatively small and the ability to support two or three 'dioceses' is problematic. The late Metropolitan Orestes had several vicar Bishops over the years (i.e. auxiliaries, the late Peter (Shymansky )a widower from the Metropolia), Methodios (Kanchuka) (from the Czechoslovak Church) and John (Martin)  (a convert from the Greek Catholic church) ) but the late Metropolitan Nicholas did not want one.

It seems to me that under the current 'set up ' of the Orthodox Church in the USA, that the last thing we need are more Bishops and more dioceses. None of us can find appropriate candidates to fill the existing vacant positions. This is not limited to the Carpatho-Russians. The OCA's last two Bishops came from the ranks of ACROD. In all honesty, the OCA has had problems in finding quality men for vacancies for the past two decades or more.(Does Alaska come to mind?)  They are lucky, IMHO, that Bishops Michael and Matthias are good men, seasoned veteran priests and were good pastors and administrators.

A true National Synod with a rational, logical reorganization of the country into a manageable number of Sees and a sufficient number of Vicar Bishops (on the Russian model) to assist the sitting Bishops would seem to be the answer to the problem. We have all said something like that and paid lip service to the ideal for generations, but our Bishops have represented their constituents well in the sense that most of us talk that talk, but really want to continue walking our own walk with a fear that a national Church would rob us of our cultural patrimonies. I plead guilty and most of us probably would do so as well.

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« Reply #105 on: June 20, 2011, 11:47:54 AM »

"It seems to me that under the current 'set up ' of the Orthodox Church in the USA, that the last thing we need are more Bishops and more dioceses."

I know Bishop Matthias came directly from the ACROD, but hadn't Bishop Michael been a clergyman of the OCA for years? (Even decades?) Perhaps if we had smaller dioceses (under 50 parishes, mission, and monastic communities?) there'd be more nurturing of the vocations we need.
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« Reply #106 on: June 20, 2011, 12:25:57 PM »

"It seems to me that under the current 'set up ' of the Orthodox Church in the USA, that the last thing we need are more Bishops and more dioceses."

I know Bishop Matthias came directly from the ACROD, but hadn't Bishop Michael been a clergyman of the OCA for years? (Even decades?) Perhaps if we had smaller dioceses (under 50 parishes, mission, and monastic communities?) there'd be more nurturing of the vocations we need.

No, about ten years.

Bishop Michael is a graduate of Christ the Saviour Seminary in Johnstown, having been married at the Cathedral in Johnstown, PA and later ordained there by the late Bishop John (Martin) in 1973. His wife was killed in a tragic car accident shortly after his ordination in the late winter of 1973.  He grew up in Binghamton, NY; his dad's family remained Greek Catholic and his mom's stayed with St. Michael's as it became Orthodox in the 1930's. Following his ordination, he served several ACROD parishes in western PA and became pastor of Holy Ghost Orthodox Church in Phoenixville, PA in 1985 where he remained through about 2002. Prior to 2002 he was on the faculty of Christ the Savior Seminary at various times and also served for a time as the Seminary Dean. Metropolitan Nicholas also made him Dean of the Mid-Atlantic deanery of ACROD while he was pastor of Holy Ghost.

He was presented as a candidate within ACROD for the episcopacy upon the death of Bishop John in 1984 and lost by a small margin in the vote which selected Metropolitan Nicholas. At that time then Father Michael was only 34 and many felt he was not old enough to be Bishop. (For what it is worth, and I think it is instructive for a number of reasons, my family were staunch advocates of then Father Michael's election in 1984. It was not to be and we obediently accepted the selection of Metropolitan Nicholas, a good man in his own right and a family friend as well.)

On the 25th anniversary of his ordination in 1998 at a celebration in Phoenixville, he was elevated to the honor of Protopresbyter by Metropolitan Nicholas. (Upon joining the OCA, he was entitled to retain and use the title of Archpriest as that is equivalent to Protopresbyter.) He obtained his release from ACROD after several years of requesting the same from Metropolitan Nicholas, and upon the urging of Metropolitan Herman, to assume the position of Dean of St. Tikhon's from which he was selected Bishop of New York and New Jersey in 2009.
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« Reply #107 on: June 20, 2011, 12:38:53 PM »

He was already in the OCA then. Interesting about his service in the ACROD - I'd read most of it before, but hadn't realized he was an episcopal candidate at one point.
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« Reply #108 on: June 21, 2011, 10:18:53 AM »

Shouldn't ACROD combine with the OCA, if the situation is already non-canonical (2 bishops for one city)?
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« Reply #109 on: June 21, 2011, 10:27:03 AM »

I don't think anyone else has a bishop in Johnstown...
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« Reply #110 on: June 21, 2011, 10:28:45 AM »

I don't believe that parallel hierarchies are canonical.
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« Reply #111 on: June 21, 2011, 10:30:56 AM »

Who does? No one (Romanians aside perhaps :-) ), yet they exist...
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« Reply #112 on: June 21, 2011, 11:15:31 AM »

A couple of the comments here made me reflect upon the sad reality that within American Orthodoxy, we just talk the talk about a unified Church. The truth is that many lay people have little recognition or understanding about the diversity that exists here in terms of jurisdictions and sitting Bishops. Pittsburgh, Pa, for example has several Orthodox Bishops, Bishop Melchizedek of the OCA, Metropolitan Constantine of the UOC-USA, Bishop Mitrophan of the Serbs (His address is Mars, PA but....really partof metro Pgh.) and Metropolitan Maximos of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America. This in addition to those nearby, including the vacancy in Johnstown, PA (although that see is not geographic in the  traditional sense.) as well as the Antiochian Bishop in Charlestown, West Va. These are just the Episcopal Assembly/SCOBA hierarchs. There may be others there who are not EA.

Even among involved parishioners, cradle and convert alike, many tend to view the 'other' Orthodox in town as being like Lutherans are to Methodists are to Baptists etc....rather than being representatives of the Same Faith. How do we get beyond that before we unite?
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« Reply #113 on: June 22, 2011, 02:58:50 PM »

Given how the parishes are spread (if my memory serves me well anyways) Johnstown is pretty central...
Most parishes are in Pennsylvania, NJ, and NY, some in MD/dc area, some in Ohio, pretty much follow interstate 80 to indiana and that's the diocese.
you mean "to Chicago"

Oh how could I forget Chicago, well, Illinois is half Indian territory, at least in the antiquated poorly funded public schools in my state. lol.
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« Reply #114 on: June 22, 2011, 03:03:49 PM »

Shouldn't ACROD combine with the OCA, if the situation is already non-canonical (2 bishops for one city)?

Whoa, you've never been to an ACROD parish have you?  Mearly mentioning the ACROD and the OCA unifying would give 98% of the ACROD folks a heart-attack.  The history of the diocese was rife with not unifying with the then "Metropolia."  Like Podkarpatska said, you have to come to Pennsylvania to really explore how the different little traditions define each parish and how the people (I'm one of them) like their style and wouldn't trade it for the world. 
the only way we'd unify would be to do it adminstrative level and let the parishes keep their own liturgical/small traditions intact.  Orthodoxy is more complex than it can be perceived on the internet.
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« Reply #115 on: June 22, 2011, 03:11:43 PM »

Shouldn't ACROD combine with the OCA, if the situation is already non-canonical (2 bishops for one city)?

Whoa, you've never been to an ACROD parish have you?  Mearly mentioning the ACROD and the OCA unifying would give 98% of the ACROD folks a heart-attack.  The history of the diocese was rife with not unifying with the then "Metropolia."  Like Podkarpatska said, you have to come to Pennsylvania to really explore how the different little traditions define each parish and how the people (I'm one of them) like their style and wouldn't trade it for the world. 
the only way we'd unify would be to do it adminstrative level and let the parishes keep their own liturgical/small traditions intact.  Orthodoxy is more complex than it can be perceived on the internet.
Yes, ACROD shouldn't be coming into the OCA except as a national diocese
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When the good of the Church requires that particular national groups receive an assurance of identity, the Holy Synod may establish dioceses and/or deaneries and set standards for their participation in the life of the Orthodox Church in America by mutual agreement with the group and until such time as the diocesan structure of the Church can be organized on an exclusively territorial basis. If a given group is organized as a diocese, the bishop of this diocese is a member of the Holy Synod and receives an episcopal title defined territorially. The Statute shall constitute the fundamental law for the existence of all such groups within the Orthodox Church in America. 
The OCA would have to erect a [Great] Russian Diocese to make that clear (something perhaps they should do anyways, or leave to a reception of the Patriarchal parishes and/or ROCOR in North America).
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« Reply #116 on: June 22, 2011, 03:27:08 PM »

"The OCA would have to erect a [Great] Russian Diocese to make that clear (something perhaps they should do anyways, or leave to a reception of the Patriarchal parishes and/or ROCOR in North America)."

That could be problematic given that the OCA's territorial dioceses are comprised of its Russian/Ukrainian/Belorussian/Ruthenian heritage and WASO/convert parishes (with the exception of the Diocese of Mexico City of course). If a "Russian Orthodox Diocese of North America" came into existence within the OCA, then would parishes using Slavonic 50% of the time or more be eligible to join? If not, then why not?
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« Reply #117 on: June 22, 2011, 03:58:34 PM »

Shouldn't ACROD combine with the OCA, if the situation is already non-canonical (2 bishops for one city)?

Whoa, you've never been to an ACROD parish have you?  Mearly mentioning the ACROD and the OCA unifying would give 98% of the ACROD folks a heart-attack.  The history of the diocese was rife with not unifying with the then "Metropolia."  Like Podkarpatska said, you have to come to Pennsylvania to really explore how the different little traditions define each parish and how the people (I'm one of them) like their style and wouldn't trade it for the world. 
the only way we'd unify would be to do it adminstrative level and let the parishes keep their own liturgical/small traditions intact.  Orthodoxy is more complex than it can be perceived on the internet.

Username is quite right. And the inside joke is that in most of the towns and small cities of the good old rust belt, not just PA, but Ohio, New Jersey, upstate New York and Connecticut,  the four or five churches play their own game of 'six degrees of Kevin Bacon' in that everyone is related to someone who is related to someone from the 'other' church and the answer you will get is, "My Baba said we do it THIS way, and that's that!" (Do you remember the wedding party in the Deer Hunter where they all go out back and beat the crap out of each other, get up and continue the party? That's been going on for nearly 100 years for better or probably worse!)  Grin
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« Reply #118 on: June 22, 2011, 04:07:44 PM »

Shouldn't ACROD combine with the OCA, if the situation is already non-canonical (2 bishops for one city)?

Whoa, you've never been to an ACROD parish have you?  Mearly mentioning the ACROD and the OCA unifying would give 98% of the ACROD folks a heart-attack.  The history of the diocese was rife with not unifying with the then "Metropolia."  Like Podkarpatska said, you have to come to Pennsylvania to really explore how the different little traditions define each parish and how the people (I'm one of them) like their style and wouldn't trade it for the world. 
the only way we'd unify would be to do it adminstrative level and let the parishes keep their own liturgical/small traditions intact.  Orthodoxy is more complex than it can be perceived on the internet.
Yes, ACROD shouldn't be coming into the OCA except as a national diocese
Quote
Article XII - National Groups
 
When the good of the Church requires that particular national groups receive an assurance of identity, the Holy Synod may establish dioceses and/or deaneries and set standards for their participation in the life of the Orthodox Church in America by mutual agreement with the group and until such time as the diocesan structure of the Church can be organized on an exclusively territorial basis. If a given group is organized as a diocese, the bishop of this diocese is a member of the Holy Synod and receives an episcopal title defined territorially. The Statute shall constitute the fundamental law for the existence of all such groups within the Orthodox Church in America. 
The OCA would have to erect a [Great] Russian Diocese to make that clear (something perhaps they should do anyways, or leave to a reception of the Patriarchal parishes and/or ROCOR in North America).

The inside joke is that all of the non-Russians who comprise the backbone of the old rust belt parishes would be really confused by that one! They've been thinking they were ethnic Russians for the past century. Wink
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« Reply #119 on: June 22, 2011, 04:10:27 PM »

It's a pity there's not an easier way in English (or Russian for that matter) to indicate someone being "of Rus'" ("из Руси") versus "of Russia" ("из России"). That exists in Ukrainian, no? (As always, carefully delineating between Rus' and Muscovite Rus' ;-).)
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« Reply #120 on: June 22, 2011, 04:40:49 PM »

Shouldn't ACROD combine with the OCA, if the situation is already non-canonical (2 bishops for one city)?

Whoa, you've never been to an ACROD parish have you?  Mearly mentioning the ACROD and the OCA unifying would give 98% of the ACROD folks a heart-attack.  The history of the diocese was rife with not unifying with the then "Metropolia."  Like Podkarpatska said, you have to come to Pennsylvania to really explore how the different little traditions define each parish and how the people (I'm one of them) like their style and wouldn't trade it for the world.  
the only way we'd unify would be to do it adminstrative level and let the parishes keep their own liturgical/small traditions intact.  Orthodoxy is more complex than it can be perceived on the internet.
Yes, ACROD shouldn't be coming into the OCA except as a national diocese
Quote
Article XII - National Groups
 
When the good of the Church requires that particular national groups receive an assurance of identity, the Holy Synod may establish dioceses and/or deaneries and set standards for their participation in the life of the Orthodox Church in America by mutual agreement with the group and until such time as the diocesan structure of the Church can be organized on an exclusively territorial basis. If a given group is organized as a diocese, the bishop of this diocese is a member of the Holy Synod and receives an episcopal title defined territorially. The Statute shall constitute the fundamental law for the existence of all such groups within the Orthodox Church in America.  
The OCA would have to erect a [Great] Russian Diocese to make that clear (something perhaps they should do anyways, or leave to a reception of the Patriarchal parishes and/or ROCOR in North America).

The inside joke is that all of the non-Russians who comprise the backbone of the old rust belt parishes would be really confused by that one! They've been thinking they were ethnic Russians for the past century. Wink

Quote
Subcarpathian Russia

For many, the concept of an independent 'Subcarpathian Russia' is no more than a Ruritanian dream. This territory, which has never formed a State in its history, is too small and impoverished to survive alone. Of which country then does history tell us that it could become a federal part? Let us look at some theoretical possibilities.

a) The Ukraine

The most obvious choice would be that 'Transcarpathian Ukraine', a name invented by Stalin's lackeys in 1944-5, should cease to exist and be called and governed autonomously as Subcarpathian Russia.

True, this would not reunite the Rusins there with those in Slovakia and elsewhere. Above all, this is not a realistic option. Although Rusin activists have pressed their case for such a change again and again since the early 1990s, the Ukraine is dominated by an old Soviet-style centralized bureaucracy, which is profoundly corrupt. For Subcarpathian Russia to exist in the Ukraine, it would require a federal Ukraine to come into existence. At present the Ukraine understands nothing of federalism, only Mafia-run Unionism, insisting that Rusins are Ukrainians! Yet, their whole tradition, including Orthodoxy, comes from the south and the Rusins were Orthodox long before Kievan Rus, now the Ukraine. Indeed, Rusins were probably among those who helped bring the Light of Orthodox to Kievan Rus.

The 'ex-Communist' anti-Rusin nationalism in the north-western Ukraine, especially Galicia, wants to ukrainianize everything within its grasp, so suppressing everything Rusin. Its Mafia gangster regime and attacks on Rusin activists since the fall of Communism have hardly endeared it to Rusins. Moreover, the older generation cannot forget how they suffered under the selfsame Galician Ukrainian nationalism before 1939. Then, the Czechoslovak State, taking Ukrainian nationalist refugees from the Communist north into Subcarpathian Russia after 1919, accepted their attacks on Rusin national identity and Ukrainianization. When the Second World War came, many of these same unprincipled Ukrainian nationalists sided with the Nazis, becoming Fascists, denouncing Rusins and Jews alike. In 1944, many who did not flee with the Nazis, often became virulent Communists.

Today, Ukrainian nationalists do not recognize Rusin as a separate language. Moreover, their religious sympathies are with virulent Uniatism, the natural religion of Ukrainian nationalists. Thus, the continued domination of Subcarpathian Russia by the Ukraine would simply prolong the agony of what Rusins have already suffered under Communism since 1944; the suppression of their spiritual and national identity, their language and the continued ecological rape of the Carpathians.

Furthermore, what can the Ukraine offer? Like Subcarpathian Russia itself, it has no history of its own as an independent nation, rather it has a history of anarchy. Who wants to belong to a country, whose very name is unrecognized by its own population in its eastern half and in the Crimea, and means 'the borderland'? Does the Ukraine actually have a future? It certainly has no past.

To the anti-Rusin Ukraine, we must say No.

d) Russia

In the nineteenth century and up until the First World War, Russia, the Protector of Orthodox Slavdom, showed its favour to the Rusins. However, it never managed to free Subcarpathian Russia from Austro-Hungarian tyranny. Though Russophilia and Russian Messianism were strong in Subcarpathian Russia right up until 1944, Soviet enslavement then traumatized Rusins. The Soviets of Moscow attached the Rusins to the Ukraine. Ukrainianization followed, the name 'Rusin' was banned. For Soviet Russia, Subcarpathian Russia was merely an outlying province of the Ukraine - 'Transcarpathian Ukraine'.

Thus, even though today Soviet Russia is no more, the historical experience of Rusins has been traumatic. Moreover, there is yet another problem here: Subcarpathian Russia has no borders with Russia. How could it belong to today's Russian Federation, when it has no borders with it?

Unless the Ukraine, 'the Borderland', breaks apart and is dismembered (not impossible), most of it becoming an Autonomous Republic of the Russian Federation, at the present time, to Russia, we must say No.

f) Slovakia

The rejection of Czechia as a possibility (and no doubt the rejection of Subcarpathian Russia by Czechia) leaves us with only one solution - Slovakia. True, Slovakia fell under a Nazi puppet regime during the Second World War - but then so did all of Roman Catholic Europe, from Ireland to Poland, from Portugal to Vichy France, from Belgium to Hungary, from Spain to Italy. True, Slovak Communism equated Rusins with Ukrainians and Slovakization of the Rusins took place under the Slovak Communist regime, but this was under pressure from Moscow.

The Rusins in Slovakia have prospered more than the Rusins anywhere else. The new Slovak government has been generous to the Orthodox Church in Slovakia, centred in Presov. Over sixty new churches have been built there since the fall of Communism. Even the Uniats there wish to delatinize their rites - to become 'like the Orthodox', though, true, they have Slovakized their services in terms of language and gone over to the papal calendar. But that is the policy of the Uniat hierarchy, not of the Slovak government. The EU also provides protection for the Rusin minority in today's Slovakia.

Now that Communism is gone and the Slovak economy is beginning to revive, having entered the EU, perhaps 'Transcarpathian Ukraine' should be looking to Slovakia. After all, the Rusins of north-eastern Slovakia, in Subcarpathian 'Presov Rus', and the Rusins of the Ukraine together form over 90% of Subcarpathian Russia, both in territory and population. Although 'ex-Communist' Ukraine would not want to give up any of the territory Stalin stole for it after 1944, the Slovak government might on the other hand wish to expand eastwards. With a federal constitution, Slovakia with an autonomous region called Subcarpathian Russia, looks like a possible valid political option. The only questions - and what enormous ones they are! - are whether Slovakia would indeed want it and the Ukraine would grant it.
www.orthodoxengland.org.uk/ruthenia.htm
I seem to recall the Slovak government handing over Church properties to the Vatican.
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« Reply #121 on: June 22, 2011, 05:23:43 PM »

Btw, Galicia/Ruthenia/Carpatorus'/Carpatho-Russia does have its own independent history:


details here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Galicia%E2%80%93Volhynia#History

IIRC St. Peter brought the Metropolitinate of Kiev from Halych to Moscow.

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« Reply #122 on: June 22, 2011, 06:08:45 PM »

"Ruthenian" was used to refer to Ukrainians and Rusyns at one time, wasn't it?
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« Reply #123 on: June 22, 2011, 06:11:19 PM »

It was discussed a bit: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,23646.0.html
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« Reply #124 on: June 23, 2011, 09:12:00 PM »

Boring Saturday night, huh? You've failed to persuade me. Again, ACROD discussion (your closing comment does rise to that level)?
Since neither of us is in ACROD, of what was I supposed to persuade you in particular?

Er..Old buddy, I am "in" the ACROD. My wife refused to give up her "little old ladies with the doilies on their heads" and after several years of supporting two parishes - her CR and my Greek one, well...you get the picture.

And these 'little old ladies', they are different from yiayias exactly how?   Wink
Accent.
Naw,  just the doilie.  Cheesy
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« Reply #125 on: June 26, 2011, 06:23:21 PM »

This was a while ago, but:
I seem to recall the Phanar having some Russians in Latin America. Is there any ethnic dioceses (and, despite the Phanar's protest to the contrary invoking its 1871 phyletist decree, that is what they are) in Australia and New Zealand? Are there any alongside the Greek jurisdictions (themselves alongside the jurisidcion of Moscow and Antioch)?

There are about 9 jurisdictions in Australia.  The only 'double up' is the Ukrainian parishes, who are under Constantinople but not the local Greek Orthodox Archdiocese.
http://orthodoxwiki.org/Orthodoxy_in_Australia#Jurisdictions

(I say 'about 9' because although a Polish Orthodox parish was established in 1971, I am not sure if it is still functioning)
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« Reply #126 on: September 20, 2011, 03:41:17 AM »

Have there been any developments yet in the selection process of a hierarch for ACROD?
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« Reply #127 on: September 21, 2011, 07:37:17 PM »

Have there been any developments yet in the selection process of a hierarch for ACROD?

Nothing yet.  BTW, we have 3 parishes in Canada not 1.
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« Reply #128 on: September 26, 2011, 06:34:46 PM »

Shouldn't ACROD combine with the OCA, if the situation is already non-canonical (2 bishops for one city)?

Whoa, you've never been to an ACROD parish have you?  Mearly mentioning the ACROD and the OCA unifying would give 98% of the ACROD folks a heart-attack.  The history of the diocese was rife with not unifying with the then "Metropolia."  Like Podkarpatska said, you have to come to Pennsylvania to really explore how the different little traditions define each parish and how the people (I'm one of them) like their style and wouldn't trade it for the world. 
the only way we'd unify would be to do it adminstrative level and let the parishes keep their own liturgical/small traditions intact.  Orthodoxy is more complex than it can be perceived on the internet.
Yes, ACROD shouldn't be coming into the OCA except as a national diocese
Quote
Article XII - National Groups
 
When the good of the Church requires that particular national groups receive an assurance of identity, the Holy Synod may establish dioceses and/or deaneries and set standards for their participation in the life of the Orthodox Church in America by mutual agreement with the group and until such time as the diocesan structure of the Church can be organized on an exclusively territorial basis. If a given group is organized as a diocese, the bishop of this diocese is a member of the Holy Synod and receives an episcopal title defined territorially. The Statute shall constitute the fundamental law for the existence of all such groups within the Orthodox Church in America. 
The OCA would have to erect a [Great] Russian Diocese to make that clear (something perhaps they should do anyways, or leave to a reception of the Patriarchal parishes and/or ROCOR in North America).
http://oca.org/DOCstatute.asp?SID=12&ID=12
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« Reply #129 on: October 03, 2011, 10:58:25 AM »

Why not ordain Carpathian hieromonks and create auxiliaries, if the diocese is so big?
Wonder if its not covered in the terms of its union. Does anyone know where you can get the Constitution/Charter/Statute that ACROD operates under?
I don't think the eparchy it self is "so big" but is spread out geographically little missions.  The heart of the church in PA.  That is also where its historical roots are.
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« Reply #130 on: October 03, 2011, 03:23:57 PM »

(I say 'about 9' because although a Polish Orthodox parish was established in 1971, I am not sure if it is still functioning)

It's not active now and I doubt it ever was. It looks too strange.
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« Reply #131 on: October 03, 2011, 10:02:10 PM »

"(I say 'about 9' because although a Polish Orthodox parish was established in 1971, I am not sure if it is still functioning)
It's not active now and I doubt it ever was. It looks too strange."

Perhaps this is off topic, but isn't there a Polish Orthodox mission under the OCA worshiping at St. Joseph's Church in Wheaton, Illinois?
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« Reply #132 on: October 04, 2011, 12:56:41 AM »

"(I say 'about 9' because although a Polish Orthodox parish was established in 1971, I am not sure if it is still functioning)
It's not active now and I doubt it ever was. It looks too strange."

Perhaps this is off topic, but isn't there a Polish Orthodox mission under the OCA worshiping at St. Joseph's Church in Wheaton, Illinois?
Yes, and it is functioning.
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« Reply #133 on: October 04, 2011, 12:11:34 PM »

How much Polish is that 'Polish' Mission?
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« Reply #134 on: October 04, 2011, 05:38:24 PM »

If I'm not mistaken it's Polish enough to feel the need to differentiate itself from the Ukrainian Orthodox community also associated with St. Joseph's. Beyond that it's been a few years, so I don't remember much about it.
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