Author Topic: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?  (Read 11482 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline JamesR

  • The Second Coming of Jason
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,917
  • Remember me?
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #45 on: March 29, 2012, 05:21:15 PM »
Worst: Arius or Thomas Aquinas, do I even need to mention why?

Yeah

I'm curious as well.

He tried to reduce God into a lousy deistic entity that could be entirely interpreted by the mere human mind even though God is much bigger than that and there are many things about him we will never be able to understand with our minds. Thomas Aquinas did not worship God but worshipped a philosophical idol of God inside of his mind.

Quite the judgmental young man we are.  Thomas Aquinas quit writing his treatise after seeing the uncreated light.

Whether or not he saw the uncreated light is unconfirmed. However, I guess I was being too judgmental.

Offline KBN1

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 888
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #46 on: March 29, 2012, 05:26:46 PM »
Worst: Arius or Thomas Aquinas, do I even need to mention why?

Yeah

I'm curious as well.

He tried to reduce God into a lousy deistic entity that could be entirely interpreted by the mere human mind even though God is much bigger than that and there are many things about him we will never be able to understand with our minds. Thomas Aquinas did not worship God but worshipped a philosophical idol of God inside of his mind.

Have you read his Summa Theologica?  It is an honest question so please don't read anything into it.  I haven't tackled the Summa.  Maybe I will.

A side question to those of you who know a bit about Thomas Aquinas:  Where should a guy start who isn't ready to take on 3000+ pages?

Offline JamesR

  • The Second Coming of Jason
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,917
  • Remember me?
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #47 on: March 29, 2012, 05:29:30 PM »
Have you read his Summa Theologica?  It is an honest question so please don't read anything into it.  I haven't tackled the Summa.  Maybe I will.

Yes and no. I read one of those selected-writings from the Summa Theologica books. I think penguin was the publisher. It was back when I was a Protestant going through this apologetics craze. I guess I was being too judgmental, but, it seems like from what I read, Thomas Aquinas was more of a philosopher than an actual theologian.

Offline theo philosopher

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 315
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Self-Ruled Antiochian Orthodox Christian
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #48 on: March 31, 2012, 02:40:58 AM »
Worst: Arius or Thomas Aquinas, do I even need to mention why?

Yeah

I'm curious as well.

He tried to reduce God into a lousy deistic entity that could be entirely interpreted by the mere human mind even though God is much bigger than that and there are many things about him we will never be able to understand with our minds. Thomas Aquinas did not worship God but worshipped a philosophical idol of God inside of his mind.

Have you read his Summa Theologica?  It is an honest question so please don't read anything into it.  I haven't tackled the Summa.  Maybe I will.

A side question to those of you who know a bit about Thomas Aquinas:  Where should a guy start who isn't ready to take on 3000+ pages?

Kreeft's "Summa of the Summa," or Kreeft's "An Even Shorter Summa of the Summa."
“Wherefore, then, death approaches, gulps down the bait of the body, and is pierced by the hook of the divinity. Then, having tasted of the sinless and life-giving body, it is destroyed and gives up all those whom it had swallowed down of old." - St. John of Damascus

Offline KBN1

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 888
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #49 on: March 31, 2012, 10:38:14 PM »
Worst: Arius or Thomas Aquinas, do I even need to mention why?

Yeah

I'm curious as well.

He tried to reduce God into a lousy deistic entity that could be entirely interpreted by the mere human mind even though God is much bigger than that and there are many things about him we will never be able to understand with our minds. Thomas Aquinas did not worship God but worshipped a philosophical idol of God inside of his mind.

Have you read his Summa Theologica?  It is an honest question so please don't read anything into it.  I haven't tackled the Summa.  Maybe I will.

A side question to those of you who know a bit about Thomas Aquinas:  Where should a guy start who isn't ready to take on 3000+ pages?

Kreeft's "Summa of the Summa," or Kreeft's "An Even Shorter Summa of the Summa."

Thank you.  539 pages seems managable.

Offline Shiny

  • Site Supporter
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,265
  • Paint It Red
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #50 on: July 01, 2012, 01:46:43 AM »
Vladimir Lossky
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan

Offline Shiny

  • Site Supporter
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,265
  • Paint It Red
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #51 on: July 01, 2012, 01:54:07 AM »
Quick question how Orthodox is Summa Theologica, even though its written by a Roman Catholic?
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan

Offline Papist

  • Patriarch of Pontification
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,758
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #52 on: July 01, 2012, 12:32:40 PM »
Worst: Arius or Thomas Aquinas, do I even need to mention why?

Yeah

I'm curious as well.


He tried to reduce God into a lousy deistic entity that could be entirely interpreted by the mere human mind even though God is much bigger than that and there are many things about him we will never be able to understand with our minds. Thomas Aquinas did not worship God but worshipped a philosophical idol of God inside of his mind.
"For by it's immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa conta gentiles, book 1, chapter 14
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline Melodist

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,522
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #53 on: July 01, 2012, 02:25:30 PM »
If the person you believe is the great theologian is not on the list. Just post their name. :)

This is how we got our feast day for the three hierarchs.
And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

Made Perfect in Weakness - Latest Post: The Son of God

Offline JamesRottnek

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,256
  • I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #54 on: July 01, 2012, 03:10:57 PM »
Once again, I say St. Isaac of Nineveh.
"Homosexuality has been a popular topic, but not Satanic trances."

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011

Offline Kerdy

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,813
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #55 on: July 01, 2012, 03:16:06 PM »
I don't know enough to provide a clear answer, but does there have to be a greatest?  Couldn't it just be most personally influential?  So far, for me, its Fr. Alexander Schmemman (spelling?).

Proper title added.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 03:25:33 PM by Michał Kalina »

Offline Severian

  • My posts on this site don't necessarily reflect my current position on any given subject.
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,642
  • Pat. St. Severus, pray for my family & friends
    • St. Severus of Antioch's Writings
  • Faith: Coptic Orthodox Christian
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #56 on: July 18, 2012, 01:16:25 PM »

Most overrated infallible theologian: St. Athanasius

;)
It's almost true, though. Has this great Saint ever taught something that was rejected by the Church?
"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die [...] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -The Lord Jesus Christ

No longer active on OC.net. Please pray for me and forgive any harm I might have caused by my ignorance and malice.

Offline Asteriktos

  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 37,930
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #57 on: July 18, 2012, 01:20:03 PM »

Most overrated infallible theologian: St. Athanasius

;)
It's almost true, though. Has this great Saint ever taught something that was rejected by the Church?

He rejected Esther from his biblical canon ;)

Offline Severian

  • My posts on this site don't necessarily reflect my current position on any given subject.
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,642
  • Pat. St. Severus, pray for my family & friends
    • St. Severus of Antioch's Writings
  • Faith: Coptic Orthodox Christian
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #58 on: July 18, 2012, 01:23:58 PM »

Most overrated infallible theologian: St. Athanasius

;)
It's almost true, though. Has this great Saint ever taught something that was rejected by the Church?

He rejected Esther from his biblical canon ;)
That's true. Did he ever teach any doctrinal errors, however?
« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 01:34:02 PM by Severian »
"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die [...] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -The Lord Jesus Christ

No longer active on OC.net. Please pray for me and forgive any harm I might have caused by my ignorance and malice.

Offline Alpo

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,714
  • Why am I still here?
  • Faith: New Calendarist
  • Jurisdiction: Priestly Society of St. John Ireland
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #59 on: July 18, 2012, 01:27:44 PM »

Most overrated infallible theologian: St. Athanasius

;)
It's almost true, though. Has this great Saint ever taught something that was rejected by the Church?

He rejected Esther from his biblical canon ;)
That's true. Did he ever teach any theological errors, however?

Erring on biblical canon is not a theological error?  ???
I just need to find out how to say it in Slavonic!

Offline Severian

  • My posts on this site don't necessarily reflect my current position on any given subject.
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,642
  • Pat. St. Severus, pray for my family & friends
    • St. Severus of Antioch's Writings
  • Faith: Coptic Orthodox Christian
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #60 on: July 18, 2012, 01:37:02 PM »

Most overrated infallible theologian: St. Athanasius

;)
It's almost true, though. Has this great Saint ever taught something that was rejected by the Church?

He rejected Esther from his biblical canon ;)
That's true. Did he ever teach any theological errors, however?

Erring on biblical canon is not a theological error?  ???
Perhaps doctrinal would have been a better word to use. In any case, there are variances in Biblical canons even within the OO Communions and (AFAIK) EO Communions. The book of Enoch is canonical in the Ethiopian Church, but not in the Coptic Church. The Coptic canon is closer to that of RC's, whereas the Armenian canon is more like the Byzantine one.
"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die [...] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -The Lord Jesus Christ

No longer active on OC.net. Please pray for me and forgive any harm I might have caused by my ignorance and malice.

Offline minasoliman

  • Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
  • Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 20,196
  • Pray for me St. Severus
  • Faith: Oriental Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Coptic
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #61 on: July 19, 2012, 10:21:14 PM »

Most overrated infallible theologian: St. Athanasius

;)
It's almost true, though. Has this great Saint ever taught something that was rejected by the Church?

He rejected Esther from his biblical canon ;)
That's true. Did he ever teach any theological errors, however?

Erring on biblical canon is not a theological error?  ???
No, that's not a theological error.
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Asteriktos

  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 37,930
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #62 on: July 19, 2012, 10:26:20 PM »
I agree that specific scriptural canons are theologoumena when considered across the entirety of Christianity (and even within Orthodoxies), albeit a very important one that can't be ignored. But I wasn't asked to give a theological or doctrinal or dogmatic or [insert another term] mistake. The question was: "Has this great Saint ever taught something that was rejected by the Church?"  And the answer is yes, his scriptural canon was rejected by all Christian churches that I know of.  :angel:

Offline Severian

  • My posts on this site don't necessarily reflect my current position on any given subject.
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,642
  • Pat. St. Severus, pray for my family & friends
    • St. Severus of Antioch's Writings
  • Faith: Coptic Orthodox Christian
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #63 on: July 19, 2012, 10:29:48 PM »
^Haha, good point! Did he ever teach a doctrinal, dogmatic, or theological error, however?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 10:49:49 PM by Severian »
"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die [...] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -The Lord Jesus Christ

No longer active on OC.net. Please pray for me and forgive any harm I might have caused by my ignorance and malice.

Offline Asteriktos

  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 37,930
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #64 on: July 19, 2012, 10:33:43 PM »
^Haha, good point! Did he ever teach a doctrinal, dogmatic, or theological error, however.

It's been a while since I read most of his writings (on CCEL), but I don't recall reading/hearing about any such error :)

Offline Shiny

  • Site Supporter
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,265
  • Paint It Red
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #65 on: July 19, 2012, 10:34:33 PM »
How reliable is stuff like CCEL?
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan

Offline Asteriktos

  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 37,930
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #66 on: July 19, 2012, 10:37:01 PM »
How reliable is stuff like CCEL?

Well, it's a Protestant site with Protestant source material (notes, introductions, etc.), but it's better than nothing. The past few years I've used newadvent's Church Fathers section just because it's easier to navigate and link to, but they don't have nearly as many notes or indexes. Unless you mean the translations, then I'm not sure. I have run into things that I wasn't sure about, like the phrase "semi-orthodox" in an oration of St. Gregory the Theologian.

Offline Shiny

  • Site Supporter
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,265
  • Paint It Red
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #67 on: July 19, 2012, 10:44:36 PM »
I ask that question because I wonder if Protestant theology would somehow distort the original text or the translation philosophy is to be more in line with Protestantism.

Nontheless I too think it's a very good site with alot of information.
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan

Offline minasoliman

  • Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
  • Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 20,196
  • Pray for me St. Severus
  • Faith: Oriental Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Coptic
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #68 on: July 19, 2012, 10:50:19 PM »
I agree that specific scriptural canons are theologoumena when considered across the entirety of Christianity (and even within Orthodoxies), albeit a very important one that can't be ignored. But I wasn't asked to give a theological or doctrinal or dogmatic or [insert another term] mistake. The question was: "Has this great Saint ever taught something that was rejected by the Church?"  And the answer is yes, his scriptural canon was rejected by all Christian churches that I know of.  :angel:
Actually if anything, Esther wasn't rejected completely, but was considered pious reading, recommended by the Fathers for those "wishing to be instructed in the word of godliness".
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Shiny

  • Site Supporter
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,265
  • Paint It Red
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #69 on: July 19, 2012, 11:01:09 PM »
If I can add nothing to this discussion of St. Athansius' it would be I've had a few atheists confess that his On the Incarnation made them rethink about Christianity. It also made an impression on me when I was inquring into Orthodoxy and made me fall in love with the saint.
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan

Offline Severian

  • My posts on this site don't necessarily reflect my current position on any given subject.
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,642
  • Pat. St. Severus, pray for my family & friends
    • St. Severus of Antioch's Writings
  • Faith: Coptic Orthodox Christian
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #70 on: July 19, 2012, 11:11:24 PM »
In which letter was it that he set forth the Biblical canon (excluding Esther)?

EDIT: Thank you Asteriktos.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 11:21:28 PM by Severian »
"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die [...] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -The Lord Jesus Christ

No longer active on OC.net. Please pray for me and forgive any harm I might have caused by my ignorance and malice.

Offline Asteriktos

  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 37,930
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #71 on: July 19, 2012, 11:18:11 PM »
Letter 39 (from 367)

Offline RobS

  • Formerly "nothing"
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,593
  • Pavel Florensky and Sergei Bulgakov
  • Faith: Neo-Patristic Synthesis
  • Jurisdiction: The thrilling romance of Holy Orthodoxy
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #72 on: July 24, 2018, 02:38:05 PM »
I sometimes wonder if St. John of Damascus was ever a true theologian.
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

— Saint Irenaeus of Lyons, Fragment XI

Modernist thinking and being consists of nothing but uncritical acceptance.

Offline LivenotoneviL

  • Done
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,607
  • Intercede for my wretched soul, Saint Alban.
  • Faith: Outside the Church
  • Jurisdiction: Lost for now.
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #73 on: July 24, 2018, 02:41:38 PM »
I think Saint Cyril of Alexandria is up there, from reading his commentary on the Gospel of John.
I'm done.

Offline Tzimis

  • Site Supporter
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,503
  • If you die before you die, then you will not die
  • Jurisdiction: GOA
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #74 on: July 24, 2018, 03:39:54 PM »
St. Maximos the confessor. He confessed. Read him if you want to gaze into the mysteries of god.

Offline Dominika

  • Troublesome Sheep
  • Global Moderator
  • Taxiarches
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,811
  • Serbian/Polish
    • My youtube channel
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian Patriarchate/POC
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #75 on: July 24, 2018, 03:50:28 PM »
I sometimes wonder if St. John of Damascus was ever a true theologian.

Why?  :o
He's my beloved (theologian) one.
Pray for persecuted Christians, especially in Serbian Kosovo and Raška, Egypt and Syria

My Orthodox liturgical blog "For what eat, while you can fast" in Polish (videos featuring chants in different languages)

Offline Iconodule

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 15,044
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Johnstown
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #76 on: July 24, 2018, 04:16:17 PM »
I sometimes wonder if St. John of Damascus was ever a true theologian.

Why?  :o
He's my beloved (theologian) one.

Yeah, pretty odd thing to wonder about the author of the Paschal Canon.
Quote
When a time revolts against eternity, the only thing to set against it is genuine eternity itself, and not some other time which has already roused, and not without reason, a violent reaction against itself.
- Berdyaev

If you would like a private forum for non-polemical topics, comment here.

Offline Jetavan

  • Argumentum ad australopithecum
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,973
  • Tenzin and Desmond
    • The Mystical Theology
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #77 on: July 24, 2018, 04:38:09 PM »
Origenes Adamantius
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline biro

  • Site Supporter
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,381
  • Excelsior
    • Archive of Our Own works
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #78 on: July 24, 2018, 09:20:26 PM »
St. John The.
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist


Warning: stories have mature content.

Offline LivenotoneviL

  • Done
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,607
  • Intercede for my wretched soul, Saint Alban.
  • Faith: Outside the Church
  • Jurisdiction: Lost for now.
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #79 on: July 24, 2018, 09:33:57 PM »
St. John The.

+1

No theological work has been as inspiring to the Saints as this one.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 09:34:33 PM by LivenotoneviL »
I'm done.

Offline Tzimis

  • Site Supporter
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,503
  • If you die before you die, then you will not die
  • Jurisdiction: GOA
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #80 on: July 24, 2018, 10:53:26 PM »
Greeks couldn't decide so they made a feast day for the three Hierarchs. January 30.

Offline biro

  • Site Supporter
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,381
  • Excelsior
    • Archive of Our Own works
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #81 on: July 24, 2018, 10:55:14 PM »
Very good. :)
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist


Warning: stories have mature content.

Offline RaphaCam

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,960
  • It is honourable to reveal the works of God
    • Em Espírito e em Verdade
  • Faith: Big-O Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Exarchate of Gotham City
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #82 on: July 25, 2018, 12:19:24 AM »
WPM and pasadi97
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

May the Blessed Light shine Forth

Offline Asteriktos

  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 37,930
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #83 on: July 25, 2018, 02:12:59 AM »
WPM and pasadi97

"And the Lord said unto pasadi97, 'See, I have made thee a god to oc.net: and WPM thy brother shall be thy prophet." (Ex. 7:1)

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant, but you can call me Elder
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 15,905
  • Unbreakable! He's alive, dammit! It's a MIRACLE!
  • Faith: Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
  • Jurisdiction: In Hell I'll be in good company
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #84 on: July 25, 2018, 08:52:17 AM »
WPM and pasadi97

"And the Lord said unto pasadi97, 'See, I have made thee a god to oc.net: and WPM thy brother shall be thy prophet." (Ex. 7:1)

And GOD saw that the wickedness of OCnet was great in the local area, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

(OC Gen. 6:5)
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline RobS

  • Formerly "nothing"
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,593
  • Pavel Florensky and Sergei Bulgakov
  • Faith: Neo-Patristic Synthesis
  • Jurisdiction: The thrilling romance of Holy Orthodoxy
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #85 on: July 25, 2018, 02:26:36 PM »
I sometimes wonder if St. John of Damascus was ever a true theologian.

Why?  :o
He's my beloved (theologian) one.
Actually I've been thinking a lot about what makes a theologian...well a theologian? The more I read, the less I'm clear on that. Even the Church has given the title to only 3 saints.

St. John is my patron saint, after all, but even in his Fount...it's much more summary than it is theology. Or maybe my understanding of theology is too narrow. I dunno, I'm not dogmatic about any of my opinions...
« Last Edit: July 25, 2018, 02:27:32 PM by RobS »
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

— Saint Irenaeus of Lyons, Fragment XI

Modernist thinking and being consists of nothing but uncritical acceptance.

Offline Dominika

  • Troublesome Sheep
  • Global Moderator
  • Taxiarches
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,811
  • Serbian/Polish
    • My youtube channel
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian Patriarchate/POC
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #86 on: July 26, 2018, 07:04:15 AM »
I sometimes wonder if St. John of Damascus was ever a true theologian.

Why?  :o
He's my beloved (theologian) one.
Actually I've been thinking a lot about what makes a theologian...well a theologian? The more I read, the less I'm clear on that. Even the Church has given the title to only 3 saints.

St. John is my patron saint, after all, but even in his Fount...it's much more summary than it is theology. Or maybe my understanding of theology is too narrow. I dunno, I'm not dogmatic about any of my opinions...
Quite funny, but on one of Coptic sites I've seen "theologian" being attributed to st. John Damascene.
Anyway, the Fountain of Knowledge is quite specific thing: the first part just gives and describes the tools for deduction, the second part is rejection of wrong deductions and the third part is explaing right deduction ;)

Every Christian should be a theologian, see (that's an English translation from Arabic) this text written by metropolitan Paul of Aleppo: Who is the theologian?
Pray for persecuted Christians, especially in Serbian Kosovo and Raška, Egypt and Syria

My Orthodox liturgical blog "For what eat, while you can fast" in Polish (videos featuring chants in different languages)

Offline Ainnir

  • Section Moderator
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,523
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #87 on: July 26, 2018, 07:42:52 AM »
Every Christian should be a theologian, see (that's an English translation from Arabic) this text written by metropolitan Paul of Aleppo: Who is the theologian?

Great article!
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no clue, so there's that.

Offline WPM

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,915
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion?
« Reply #88 on: July 26, 2018, 09:53:24 AM »
Thomas Aquinas helpful for understanding Catholics
The Sign and Prayers to the Blessed Virgin Mary

Offline Alpha60

  • Pray without ceasing!
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,551
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox
Re: Greatest Theologian in your opinion
« Reply #89 on: August 02, 2018, 07:44:49 AM »
There are three persons formally venerated Theologians within the EO church, from what I understand, two of whom are also venerated in the OO communion: St. John the Apostle, and St. Gregory Nazianzus.   I see no reason for the Oriental church to not venerate St. Symeon the New.  These individuals are specifically venerated as theologians due to having left a written record detailing direct personal contact with God, but obviously these three people are not by any means the only theologians; I believe fervently in the adage “he who prays is a theologian”, and to the extent I am not a theologian, for example, it is due to sloth and irresponsibility in my personal prayer life.  All of the saints are in this respect theologians.

Now if we use a Western definition and describe a theologian as a scholar of the Christian religion, I can easily list my favorite “scholars of theology” as I prefer to call them in that context, if they are Orthodox, and then for comparative purposes, my favorite “scholars of religion” among the heterodox.  The scholars of theology could also be called church fathers, and some of the scholars of religion can also be called heresiarchs.   There are also a few edge cases, where I believe we wrongly anathematized someone.

My favorite Orthodox scholars of religion/Church Fathers:

1. St. Athanasius
2. St. Irenaeus of Lyons and St. (Psuedo) Dionysius the Aeropagite
3. St. Ignatius of Antioch, St. Cyril of Alexandria and St. John Chrysostom (tie)
4. St. Epiphanius of Salamis and St. Maximos the Confessor (tie)
5. St. Jacob of Sarugh and St. Ephrem the Syrian (tie)
6. St. Basil the Great and Gregory the Theologian (tie)
7. St. Severus and St. Hippolytus (tie)
8. St. Gregory of Nyssa and John of Damascus (tie)
9. St. Ambrose of Milan and St. Gregory Diologos (tie)
10. St. Ignatius Brianchaninov and St. Cyril of Jerusalem (tie)
11. Sts. Macarius and Nicodemus of Athos
12. St. Nikitas Stithatos, St. Gregory of Palamas and St. Symeon the New (tie)
13. St. Gregorios bar Hebraeus
14. Protopresbyter Michael Pomazansky
15. St. Dionysius bar Salibi

Honorable Mentions: St. Augustine, St. Justin Martyr, St. Peter Fullo, St. John of Kronstadt, St. Photius the Great, St. Mark of Ephesus, St. Pope Cyril IV

Edge cases:
Origen and Theodore of Mopsuestia
Jan Hus**

My favorite philosophers and scholars of religion (not canonical members of the Orthodox Church)

1. Dom Gregory Dix
2. Fr. Percy Dearmer
3. John Wesley*
4. John Hunter
5. Cardinal Ximenes and Carlos Borromeos (tie)
6. Thomas Aquinas
7. Soren Kierkegaard
8. Plato
9.  Maimonides
10.  Martin Luther
11.  Archbishop Cranmer
12. Eusebius of Caesarea
13.  John Calvin
14. Valentinian
15.  Zoroaster


Honorble mentions: Laozi, George Fox,  Certain assorted Sufi mystics connected with the Alevi, Bektasi and Mevlevi orders

* Actually he may have been a member; this depends on how one interprets his irregular ordination to the episcopate by Bishop Erasmus of Arcadia in 1763).
** I recall reading the Church of the Czech Lands and Slovakia is glorifying him; if so, splendid news

Finally, among living Orthodox scholars of theology:

1. Metropolitan Kallistos Ware
2. Fr. Lazarus el-Antony and Fr. John Behr (tie)
3. Fr. Peter Farrington and Archpriest Andrew S. Damick (tie)

And among living non-Orthodox scholars:

1. Pope Benedict XVI
2. Fr. Peter Owen Jones
3. Archbishop Rowan Williams (retired)
« Last Edit: August 02, 2018, 07:45:22 AM by Alpha60 »
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.