OrthodoxChristianity.net
July 22, 2014, 07:23:23 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: liturgy and judaism  (Read 525 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
henrikhankhagnell
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Coptic Orthodox or Roman-Catholic in my heart but I have not convertet yet...
Posts: 203


WWW
« on: May 06, 2011, 07:22:07 PM »

Is there a christian church who still keep most parts of the jewish liturgy but still celebrate a christian liturgy? Do they even worship in synagouges instead of churches?
I mean, most of the christian churches did actually throw away most of the jewish tradition.
Logged

searching for the church that is both catholic and orthodox...
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Faith: BZZT
Posts: 29,219


« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2011, 07:54:24 PM »

...parts of the jewish liturgy...

What parts are there in a Jewish liturgy from ancient times?
« Last Edit: May 06, 2011, 07:55:02 PM by Asteriktos » Logged
akimori makoto
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Non-heretical Christian
Jurisdiction: Fully-sik-hektic archdiocese of Australia, bro
Posts: 3,126

No-one bound by fleshly pleasures is worthy ...


« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2011, 10:04:39 PM »

You are making the mistake of believing that the synagogue was central to Jewish worship in the time of Christ. It wasn't -- the Temple stood at the centre of Jewish worship and the synagogues served a supporting role. Many Jews were uninterested in what went on in synagogues and cared only for the worship of the Temple.

You are also making the mistake of believing that the Christian Church is not a synagogue. In fact, it is both a synagogue and a temple. Take a really close look at the way the Divine Liturgy is structured and you will see that the service very much parallels Jewish worship of the time of Christ, only that Christ stands at the centre of our Liturgy.

Please do fall into the error of seeing what Judaism looks like today, noting how different it is to Orthodox Christianity and then backwards-extrapolating that Orthodoxy must have departed from the Judaism of Christ's time. In many ways, our worship more closely paralells the Judaism of Christ's time than does that of modern Judaism. In other ways, modern Jews more faithfully preserve ancient practices. The differences mostly arise out of theology, so there are good reasons for them.

Others will no doubt explain further and better.
Logged

The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.
HabteSelassie
Ises and I-ity
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 3,332



« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2011, 03:41:02 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Is there a christian church who still keep most parts of the jewish liturgy but still celebrate a christian liturgy? Do they even worship in synagouges instead of churches?
I mean, most of the christian churches did actually throw away most of the jewish tradition.


What do you mean exactly? Are you asking if there are any jurisdictions of Orthodox that practice a near verbatim service of the Jewish liturgies? Which Jewish liturgies are you referring to exactly? I am not familiar..

A little background info though:

Many Orthodox jurisdictions follow the same kinds of worship that was common in the early Jewish liturgies, including the separation of the congregation by gender, the exultation of the Gospels (similar to the Torah), the celebrating Priest standing with back turned towards the people facing the same direction as them.  We also chant the Psalter in a similar manner, as well as other similar litanies, benedictions, and absolutions which come perhaps from our mutual origins. A lot of the structure and flow of the Christian liturgy is also very similar to the Jewish liturgies, and even similar melodies and intonations.

Remember, the Bible is not a book, in the original Jewish tradition the Bible was more so one long, meta-narrative SONG, which was sung in melody on in and every relevant occasion.  In this way, the songs and visual elements of the Bible have permeated the symbolic imagery and spiritual expressions of the Church.  Since we receive our symbolism and imagery from the same fount, it is reasonable to find many similarities, some by design and some by sheer coincidence.

Was there anything more specific you had in mind to discuss regarding the Jewish liturgy?

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
henrikhankhagnell
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Coptic Orthodox or Roman-Catholic in my heart but I have not convertet yet...
Posts: 203


WWW
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2011, 05:51:21 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Is there a christian church who still keep most parts of the jewish liturgy but still celebrate a christian liturgy? Do they even worship in synagouges instead of churches?
I mean, most of the christian churches did actually throw away most of the jewish tradition.




Was there anything more specific you had in mind to discuss regarding the Jewish liturgy?

stay blessed,
habte selassie
well, what about the Hebrew language?
and Jesus celebrated passover at home but if he would have been an orthodox christian he would have celebrated it in the church? 
and many christians use musical instrument in their worship.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2011, 06:16:52 PM by henrikhankhagnell » Logged

searching for the church that is both catholic and orthodox...
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2011, 06:16:38 PM »

There are Liturgies in  Hebrew for the Russian Jews in Israel.

Language does not seem to be distinct feature to determine a "Jewish" Liturgy.

Jesus is God. He celebrated Passover in Hades.

We use instruments too: drums, bells, organs. I've even seen a Church with an electronic keyboard.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2011, 06:20:26 PM by Michał Kalina » Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Faith: BZZT
Posts: 29,219


« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2011, 07:14:31 PM »

well, what about the Hebrew language?

What about it? Aramaic and even Greek was used by more Jews at the time of Jesus and the Apostles than Hebrew.

Quote
and Jesus celebrated passover at home but if he would have been an orthodox christian he would have celebrated it in the church?  

 Huh

Quote
and many christians use musical instrument in their worship.

 Huh What does other Christians using instruments have to do with "liturgy and judaism"?  I am not against using instruments if that is part of your tradition or culture (e.g. the recent thread with an African liturgy was great, I didn't care that there were drums), but I don't know what instruments were used in jewish and early Christian liturgies...?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2011, 07:15:09 PM by Asteriktos » Logged
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.047 seconds with 33 queries.