Author Topic: Coptic Pope Demetrius II--Papal Bull Against Protestantism  (Read 1408 times)

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Offline minasoliman

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Coptic Pope Demetrius II--Papal Bull Against Protestantism
« on: January 01, 2014, 02:05:02 AM »
I thought I could share something historical with you.  I got this from facebook from Fr. Peter Farrington's page, and I saved it to my google drive:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0sMVN64GCA3bmROY2IzVkNrNEU/edit?usp=sharing

Pope Demetrius II, Coptic Pope of Alexandria from 1861 to 1870, wrote a bull against the influence of Protestantism in Egypt, and have branded them as a dangerous group taking away our youth from the Coptic Church.  Enjoy the read of this historical document.
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Coptic Pope Demetrius II--Papal Bull Against Protestantism
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2014, 03:34:40 PM »
This is awesome!  Thanks, Mina!  :)

His Holiness may as well be writing about today, especially the part about how we expose our youth to the heresies of the Protestants from the earliest age:

Quote
But Oh our children, our joy and rejoicing and the boast of our preaching, although the conditions of you all are joyous and pleasing, and ye are abiding in the true orthodox faith and established in the honoured sacraments of your church, and respecting exceedingly its spiritual ordinances, and rites and ceremonies, yet in this spiritual garden which the right hand of the Lord Christ planted by means of his priestly apostles, and their righteous disciples and successors, and in the spiritual cultivation of which they laboured, there are to be found two things which are displeasing, nay exceedingly grievous, and depressing, and heart-rending. — The first of these is the reception by some of you of the doctrines of those opposers who follow the Protestants, sometimes by receiving and reading their books, and sometimes by hearkening to their words, and being made to doubt by them and follow them.  The second, that it has not sufficed that the adults have looked upon these poisons, but with your own hands you have cast your little ones into their deadly snares, since one gives over his boy to their school, and another his daughter unto them, that they may cause them to drink from their childhood the milk of error

I wish that the entire Church had heeded his warning even then and that this poison - as His Holiness rightly terms it - had never been imbibed by our people.  I love the terminology His Holiness employs to describe the idea of Coptic Christians accepting Protestant doctrine and practice: exceedingly grievous, depressing and heart-rending.  This is precisely how I feel about what is going on in our Church today.

May the prayers of Pope Demetrius II be with his Church today and may our merciful God disperse the council of the Protestantizers as He dispersed the council of Ahitophel!
Worship is theology, so a church which brings Evangelical and Charismatic "praise & worship" into its corporate life is no longer Orthodox.  It is, by definition, heterodox.  Those "Orthodox" leaders who make theological arguments for the incorporation of heteropraxis into the life of the Church are heretics.

http://returntoorthodoxy.com/

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Coptic Pope Demetrius II--Papal Bull Against Protestantism
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2014, 04:15:14 PM »
I wonder if this has anything to do with the perceived Prostestantism of his predecessor Pope Cyril IV.

Btw, Pope Demetrius II feast day is in 17 days.
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Offline Severian

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Re: Coptic Pope Demetrius II--Papal Bull Against Protestantism
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2014, 04:31:31 PM »
May his prayers be with us all.
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Offline Pharaoh714

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Re: Coptic Pope Demetrius II--Papal Bull Against Protestantism
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2014, 05:10:15 PM »
That was a good read, I first read it on Facebook also. Thanks for sharing it with everyone. Happy New Year!
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Offline Stavro

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Re: Coptic Pope Demetrius II--Papal Bull Against Protestantism
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2014, 02:48:19 PM »
A great find.
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Coptic Pope Demetrius II--Papal Bull Against Protestantism
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2014, 09:36:08 PM »
Bump because this is an important document that needs another read.  And, we've posted it on http://returntoorthodoxy.com/pope-demetrius-alexandria-papal-bull-protestantism/
Worship is theology, so a church which brings Evangelical and Charismatic "praise & worship" into its corporate life is no longer Orthodox.  It is, by definition, heterodox.  Those "Orthodox" leaders who make theological arguments for the incorporation of heteropraxis into the life of the Church are heretics.

http://returntoorthodoxy.com/

Offline Severian

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Re: Coptic Pope Demetrius II--Papal Bull Against Protestantism
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2014, 09:38:06 PM »
^AN, did you ever get a chance to read the message I sent you? :)
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. -The Lord Jesus

The Saviour is made of elements which are distinct from one another yet He is not two Persons. God forbid! For both natures are one by the combination. -St. Gregory Nazianzen

Offline Gorazd

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Re: Coptic Pope Demetrius II--Papal Bull Against Protestantism
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2014, 09:42:00 PM »
Are there any practical steps being taken to stop Protestant influence in the Coptic church?

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Coptic Pope Demetrius II--Papal Bull Against Protestantism
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2014, 09:44:49 PM »
Yes.  Here are a few:

http://returntoorthodoxy.com/formal-measures/

I've been speaking and corresponding with a lot of priests and bishops about this lately, and they all agree not only that this is a problem, but that education - among the laity and the clergy - is the best means of addressing it.  Our people need to have a firm foundation in Orthodox Faith and Orthodox practice, and then they won't be lead astray by spiritual poison packaged as fluff.
Worship is theology, so a church which brings Evangelical and Charismatic "praise & worship" into its corporate life is no longer Orthodox.  It is, by definition, heterodox.  Those "Orthodox" leaders who make theological arguments for the incorporation of heteropraxis into the life of the Church are heretics.

http://returntoorthodoxy.com/

Offline Nephi

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Re: Coptic Pope Demetrius II--Papal Bull Against Protestantism
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2014, 01:24:29 AM »
His Holiness was very articulate in condemning heresy. "Milk of error." Great stuff. :)

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Coptic Pope Demetrius II--Papal Bull Against Protestantism
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2014, 11:15:55 AM »
Yes.  Here are a few:

http://returntoorthodoxy.com/formal-measures/

I've been speaking and corresponding with a lot of priests and bishops about this lately, and they all agree not only that this is a problem, but that education - among the laity and the clergy - is the best means of addressing it.  Our people need to have a firm foundation in Orthodox Faith and Orthodox practice, and then they won't be lead astray by spiritual poison packaged as fluff.

Education of an apologetical nature? (As someone who spent a couple of decades skulking the borders of every kind of Protestantism) I'd think this is a battle on their turf. Yes, I know Orthodoxy has most anciently made theological arguments. But the kind of abstraction and analysis moderns expect is literally destructive, that is, by nature it carves and dices, and so, in my opinion, leaves the soul less than whole -- and this is a symptom of the West but also, I think, a means of infection. To try to be more helpful, I'll give an example: By carving theology away from the rest of the life of man, his practice, culture, and so forth, the West manages to leave a great many questions begging. In this way, the attraction to Hollywood, wealth, scientific technology, and so forth is often shielded from scrutiny. And therefore, since in truth so much of human reasoning is not reasonable at all but incensive, the attraction to such bribes from the West can make apologetics a small obstacle. I suppose I should cut to the chase: I do agree that education is the answer for Orthodoxy but believe that it has to be whole, nurturing in men a strong sense of how valuable are the old paths, how honorable too (since somehow there is a sense of shame abroad in the world at not being Western), how the contentment and wholeness they brought the ancients is of a piece with the ancient faith and too precious a jewel to be rejected ...
« Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 11:16:25 AM by Porter ODoran »
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Coptic Pope Demetrius II--Papal Bull Against Protestantism
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2014, 12:00:51 PM »
Education of an apologetical nature? (As someone who spent a couple of decades skulking the borders of every kind of Protestantism) I'd think this is a battle on their turf. Yes, I know Orthodoxy has most anciently made theological arguments. But the kind of abstraction and analysis moderns expect is literally destructive, that is, by nature it carves and dices, and so, in my opinion, leaves the soul less than whole -- and this is a symptom of the West but also, I think, a means of infection. To try to be more helpful, I'll give an example: By carving theology away from the rest of the life of man, his practice, culture, and so forth, the West manages to leave a great many questions begging. In this way, the attraction to Hollywood, wealth, scientific technology, and so forth is often shielded from scrutiny. And therefore, since in truth so much of human reasoning is not reasonable at all but incensive, the attraction to such bribes from the West can make apologetics a small obstacle. I suppose I should cut to the chase: I do agree that education is the answer for Orthodoxy but believe that it has to be whole, nurturing in men a strong sense of how valuable are the old paths, how honorable too (since somehow there is a sense of shame abroad in the world at not being Western), how the contentment and wholeness they brought the ancients is of a piece with the ancient faith and too precious a jewel to be rejected ...

I don't disagree with the substance of your post.  Orthodox theology truly lived would preclude falling into the snares of heterodoxy; but apologetics still has its place in the education of the laity.
Worship is theology, so a church which brings Evangelical and Charismatic "praise & worship" into its corporate life is no longer Orthodox.  It is, by definition, heterodox.  Those "Orthodox" leaders who make theological arguments for the incorporation of heteropraxis into the life of the Church are heretics.

http://returntoorthodoxy.com/