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Author Topic: Orthodox visiting Catholic churches  (Read 5077 times) Average Rating: 0
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stashko
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« Reply #90 on: May 09, 2011, 05:12:32 PM »

I don't have a negative reaction to you and bear you no ill will. But I see in your entire posting history a fundamental issue with a pull between Orthodoxy and Catholicism. You say they don't attend church, then your say they do...you are trying to give us a picture of what they are like in order to get advice, but the picture you paint of your parents keeps changing.

Your absolutely correct....Keep the questions going ..... police
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ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
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« Reply #91 on: May 09, 2011, 05:18:43 PM »

Folks, remember that Roman Catholics posters can't present their Church's teachings here. If you want to start a discussion with LittleFlower about her faith (insted of the Orthodox Church teachings) do it there. It's not fair, don't you think?
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Quinault
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« Reply #92 on: May 09, 2011, 05:19:37 PM »

If you have genuine respect for faith and piety of your parent, why would you ask if it is OK for them to attend a mass with you, if your father thinks it is OK, even if you find evidence to the contrary online, what would it accomplish to present it to him? Do you not trust his ability to know what is proper as an Orthodox Christian? Why ask strangers, when the man that helped give you life, and who you have said has a strong faith has told you it is OK?
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LittleFlower
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« Reply #93 on: May 09, 2011, 05:20:20 PM »


If an Orthodox family is isolated from an Orthodox church they are advised to pray at home in front of their icon corner.

that is a good idea, - they do not have an icon corner yet but my dad wants to make one. However, on Sundays my dad works.. also I'm not sure how to introduce the concept to them tactfully

Quote
If your parents are unaccustomed to praying, then I would think that one course open to you is to speak to the priest of an Orthodox church, explain the situation to him and ask him for a Prayerbook for your mother and one for your father.

I agree, that could work.. we do have a prayerbook at home, - it's one that a friend gave me.. it's Orthodox.. maybe I could get one just for my family and simply place it where the future icon corner would be.
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HabteSelassie
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« Reply #94 on: May 09, 2011, 05:20:53 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and
I don't have a negative reaction to you and bear you no ill will. But I see in your entire posting history a fundamental issue with a pull between Orthodoxy and Catholicism. You say they don't attend church, then your say they do...you are trying to give us a picture of what they are like in order to get advice, but the picture you paint of your parents keeps changing.

No it hasn't, the OP has been exceptionally honest and open, you've just been reading these with clear and unreasonably chip on your shoulder.  The OP was asking our opinion as Orthodox regarding how our Church would deal with this situation.  The OP was not asking to be judged or condemned or treated with hostility.  Also, the OP seemed quite sincere.  You just read into way too many lines, and as we in Rastafari say, "If a' fish woulda keep him big yap shut, him never woulda got caught!"

The OP was asking what our Orthodox opinion might be regarding any Canons or Laws that were violated, and several responses were clear that in Orthodox we do have such regulations, but those with sincere responses unanimously (and rightfully) suggested that the OP bring this issue specifically to their respective clergy for more specific advice in the proper implementation of the respective Canons and Laws.  However, the OP did not ask for our negative opinions about the Catholic Church, really, they didn't ask for any polemics at all, rather just what Orthodox teaches, and perhaps for us to season our response with our own experience.  No where did this require we Orthodox to be jerks about it.

To LittleFlower, I apologize for some of our ruder members, but unfortunately you are seeing for yourself that the anti-Catholic sentiments here on the Forum can be quite overly pronounced and some folks are just outright negative Sad Thank you for being the more Christian person about it and responding to some of the negativity with positivity and sincerity, I applaud your patience.

Stay Blessed,
Habte Selassie
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Quinault
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« Reply #95 on: May 09, 2011, 05:21:31 PM »

Putting aside any advise you will receive thru this thread, the above question is vital. Let's say that you find out that they can't attend services with you. Are you going to tell your father that he can't go with you anymore even though he believes it is OK?
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stashko
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« Reply #96 on: May 09, 2011, 05:23:19 PM »

But the Holy Orthodox Church Is The Ancient and Authentic Catholic Church ,Whole ,Complete,Lack's Nothing....For where the Bishop is Gathered with his Flock ,that's where the Catholic Church is..... police



I know that since you are Orthodox, you believe that the Orthodox Church is the true one. But even so, - if it's a choice between not going to ANY church, and sometimes visiting a Catholic church, - why is the second option worse?

It's a choice between going to any church and going to a place that imitates a Church but it's not. You don't go to a Church in both cases but at least you are aware of this in the first option.

I'm sorry I don't understand what you are saying. The Catholic church is a church.. it's not any sort of secular building.
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« Reply #97 on: May 09, 2011, 05:25:10 PM »

Quote
However, the OP did not ask for our negative opinions about the Catholic Church, really, they didn't ask for any polemics at all, rather just what Orthodox teaches, and perhaps for us to season our response with our own experience.  No where did this require we Orthodox to be jerks about it.


I would like to see a quote in this thread where I have said anything negative about the Catholic church. I have said it isn't the church, but as an Orthodox Christian I must believe that the Orthodox church is the church.
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #98 on: May 09, 2011, 05:25:31 PM »

I'm sorry I don't understand what you are saying. The Catholic church is a church.. it's not any sort of secular building.

I think it's hard to fully explain (nicely, anyway) why many Orthodox are wary in these matters. Consider the following as one way of viewing things, though this is only a part of it. In the old days they used to seal letters with wax, and then put a seal or imprint on the wax as a sign of who the letter was from. Some Church Fathers (e.g., St. Gregory the Theologian, Oration 2, 43) used this custom in trying to explain how teachings from other groups impact you. The Fathers said that once someone else has put their imprint on you, it's harder to imprint the Orthodox belief onto you. In other words, it's easier to teach people or help them when they haven't been exposed to a multitude of beliefs. The worry is that, if you are Orthodox and attend a Catholic Church, you might start to get papal infallibility or the immaculate conception or whatever else imprinted into you, and that is a problem since it is unOrthodox. Better, the Fathers said, for you not to get the beliefs of other groups imprinted onto you at all, so that you are either a clean slate, or have the Orthodox imprint on you.
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« Reply #99 on: May 09, 2011, 05:27:54 PM »

The post violating the rules was moved there. I know it's not against the rules to keep asking her questions that she can't answer in this section but I ask you to stop it.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2011, 05:32:20 PM by Michał Kalina » Logged

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« Reply #100 on: May 09, 2011, 05:31:01 PM »

I am not arguing the theological side of the question, I argue the parental side of this argument. We have the parents that we do for a reason. We can not, and should not seek to make them into what we think that they should be. By thinking it is better to attend a church rather than no church you are saying that they don't attend church enough. This is an issue that should be between you and your parents, not taken online. I have no desire to know about the history of your parents attending church. As far as I see it has no bearing on the original question whatsoever. The issue is whether or not your trust that your parents know enough about their faith to make wise decisions.
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LittleFlower
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« Reply #101 on: May 09, 2011, 05:31:28 PM »

I don't have a negative reaction to you and bear you no ill will. But I see in your entire posting history a fundamental issue with a pull between Orthodoxy and Catholicism. You say they don't attend church, then your say they do...you are trying to give us a picture of what they are like in order to get advice, but the picture you paint of your parents keeps changing.

I think it's always wise to assume the best about people rather than the worst. I already explained...... the reason "that keeps changing" is because I don't KNOW how to explain my family's situation. I already described it. They sometimes attend church on Easter, but not always. So how do I describe that? "rarely attend"? "don't attend"? "don't attend regularly"? no idea!
but as for Catholicism and Orthodoxy, - I have been certain for some time about being Catholic.
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LittleFlower
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« Reply #102 on: May 09, 2011, 05:31:28 PM »

I know that since you are Orthodox, you believe that the Orthodox Church is the true one. But even so, - if it's a choice between not going to ANY church, and sometimes visiting a Catholic church, - why is the second option worse?

It's a choice between going to any church and going to a place that imitates a Church but it's not. You don't go to a Church in both cases but at least you are aware of this in the first option.

I'm sorry I don't understand what you are saying. The Catholic church is a church.. it's not any sort of secular building.

A Mormon Church is also not a secular building.

but it is a church..
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LittleFlower
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« Reply #103 on: May 09, 2011, 05:31:28 PM »

I don't have a negative reaction to you and bear you no ill will. But I see in your entire posting history a fundamental issue with a pull between Orthodoxy and Catholicism. You say they don't attend church, then your say they do...you are trying to give us a picture of what they are like in order to get advice, but the picture you paint of your parents keeps changing.

I do not have doubts about my choice to be Catholic anymore...

 but about my family, - what I mean is that they only attend on Easter, but not always. There are years when they don't attend on Easter either. So I'm not sure how to describe that.. "never"? "rarely"? "not regularly"? you tell me.....
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LittleFlower
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« Reply #104 on: May 09, 2011, 05:36:09 PM »

I am not arguing the theological side of the question, I argue the parental side of this argument. We have the parents that we do for a reason. We can not, and should not seek to make them into what we think that they should be. By thinking it is better to attend a church rather than no church you are saying that they don't attend church enough. This is an issue that should be between you and your parents, not taken online. I have no desire to know about the history of your parents attending church. As far as I see it has no bearing on the original question whatsoever. The issue is whether or not your trust that your parents know enough about their faith to make wise decisions.

so you are essentially saying that IF my parents were atheists, i should not wish for them to be Christian? I can not agree with this. Yes I do wish for my parents to attend church more than 1 or less times a year. Yes I wish for them to come to the Sacraments. That's because I love my family and want the best for them.
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LittleFlower
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« Reply #105 on: May 09, 2011, 05:36:32 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and
I don't have a negative reaction to you and bear you no ill will. But I see in your entire posting history a fundamental issue with a pull between Orthodoxy and Catholicism. You say they don't attend church, then your say they do...you are trying to give us a picture of what they are like in order to get advice, but the picture you paint of your parents keeps changing.

No it hasn't, the OP has been exceptionally honest and open, you've just been reading these with clear and unreasonably chip on your shoulder.  The OP was asking our opinion as Orthodox regarding how our Church would deal with this situation.  The OP was not asking to be judged or condemned or treated with hostility.  Also, the OP seemed quite sincere.  You just read into way too many lines, and as we in Rastafari say, "If a' fish woulda keep him big yap shut, him never woulda got caught!"

The OP was asking what our Orthodox opinion might be regarding any Canons or Laws that were violated, and several responses were clear that in Orthodox we do have such regulations, but those with sincere responses unanimously (and rightfully) suggested that the OP bring this issue specifically to their respective clergy for more specific advice in the proper implementation of the respective Canons and Laws.  However, the OP did not ask for our negative opinions about the Catholic Church, really, they didn't ask for any polemics at all, rather just what Orthodox teaches, and perhaps for us to season our response with our own experience.  No where did this require we Orthodox to be jerks about it.

To LittleFlower, I apologize for some of our ruder members, but unfortunately you are seeing for yourself that the anti-Catholic sentiments here on the Forum can be quite overly pronounced and some folks are just outright negative Sad Thank you for being the more Christian person about it and responding to some of the negativity with positivity and sincerity, I applaud your patience.

Stay Blessed,
Habte Selassie

thanks for your support Smiley God bless.
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Quinault
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« Reply #106 on: May 09, 2011, 05:37:43 PM »

I am not arguing the theological side of the question, I argue the parental side of this argument. We have the parents that we do for a reason. We can not, and should not seek to make them into what we think that they should be. By thinking it is better to attend a church rather than no church you are saying that they don't attend church enough. This is an issue that should be between you and your parents, not taken online. I have no desire to know about the history of your parents attending church. As far as I see it has no bearing on the original question whatsoever. The issue is whether or not your trust that your parents know enough about their faith to make wise decisions.

so you are essentially saying that IF my parents were atheists, i should not wish for them to be Christian? I can not agree with this. Yes I do wish for my parents to attend church more than 1 or less times a year. Yes I wish for them to come to the Sacraments. That's because I love my family and want the best for them.

But your parents aren't atheists, by your statements they are strong in their faith. Huh
« Last Edit: May 09, 2011, 05:38:10 PM by Quinault » Logged
Quinault
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« Reply #107 on: May 09, 2011, 05:42:33 PM »

Wishing for someone to have a deeper faith is nice in theory. Wishing that an atheist will find faith is a positive thing, and prayer to that end should be lauded. That isn't what you are doing. You are hoping to rekindle the Orthodox faith of your parents by having them attend a Catholic service? That would be like trying to savor the taste of oranges by eating apples. They are both fruit, but they are not the same. Eating an apple will not satisfy the hunger for an orange. Nor will eating an apple when you should want an orange make you want an orange more.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2011, 05:43:39 PM by Quinault » Logged
Quinault
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« Reply #108 on: May 09, 2011, 06:00:46 PM »

Putting aside any advise you will receive thru this thread, the above question is vital. Let's say that you find out that they can't attend services with you. Are you going to tell your father that he can't go with you anymore even though he believes it is OK?

You don't have to talk about Catholic doctrine to answer the above question, and it is an important one. Either your parents are strong enough in their faith, and you respect them enough to judge for themselves, or they are too weak to know and you need to find out for them. You have said that they are fine with going with you. What more do you need than that?
« Last Edit: May 09, 2011, 06:02:23 PM by Quinault » Logged
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« Reply #109 on: May 09, 2011, 06:02:30 PM »

Little Flower,

To me, this just seems like an extremely personal matter, between you and your parents, and your parents and God. I don't think you will find a satisfactory answer on a forum.

If, in general, Orthodox people are not going to Orthodox churches, I believe they should be encouraged to go to Orthodox churches and to examine their reasons for not going, and also consult an experienced Orthodox spiritual father. (I would add, from an Orthodox perspective, given our historical experience of "sheep stealing," that it would be less "offensive" to many Orthodox if you encouraged your parents to go to a church of their faith than of yours--that is just my opinion. I have had experience living in a mixed-faith home. I don't say in your case, but in many cases what might be considered by one a "friendly invitation" carries with it a more mixed meaning. I'm sure that you only want your parents to experience the kind of spiritual meaning you have in your life, but they will need to find this on not just their own terms, but, if they are going to take their baptism seriously, on the Orthodox Church's terms, for they pledged at baptism to be faithful to her until death.)

For purposes of prayer, it is better for Orthodox to pray at home than to visit non-Orthodox churches out of convenience.
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