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Author Topic: 2 recent Byzantine Catholic podcasts on AFR  (Read 1691 times) Average Rating: 0
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jah777
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« on: May 04, 2011, 05:46:06 AM »

I just listened to two recent interviews on the Illumined Heart program at Ancient Faith Radio and wanted to pass them along in case they haven't been mentioned yet here.  The first program, dated March 31st, is with a Melkite priest named Fr. James Babcock, and the second interview is with Jeremy (Basil) Dannnebohm, a former Roman and Byzantine Catholic that later entered the Orthodox Church. 

There is much interesting discussion in these podcasts, particularly regarding the relationship of Eastern Rite Catholics to Roman Catholic dogma, and whether or not Eastern Rite Catholics are obligated to accept post-Schism Roman Catholic dogmas.  In the interview with Fr. James Babcock, I was most interested in his comments that Eastern Rite Catholicism is not a good model of unity for the Orthodox and Catholics, and his assertion that Eastern Rite Catholicism should disappear.  In the interview with Basil Dannnebohm, I was interested to see the effort he made to stay Roman and then Byzantine Catholic, and how in the end he felt that he was just "playing Orthodox" in Byzantine Catholicism.  He makes very clear the "spiritual vacuum" that he found in Roman and Eastern Catholicism, and the spiritual joy and fulfillment that he could only experience in the Orthodox Church.

Below are links to the two interviews.  What do you think?

http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/illuminedheart/eastern_catholics_are_they_orthodox

http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/illuminedheart/byzantine_catholics_journey_to_from_and_back_again_to_the_orthodox_ch
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theistgal
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don't even go there!


« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2011, 11:44:23 AM »

In many ways I agree.  I have been a member of the Byzantine Church for several years now, and it does often seem that those who want a deeper experience of the Eastern prayers, traditions, chant, etc, are indulged at best, and scorned at worst.

Yet there is still much that is good there ... it is sad sometimes ...
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Adela
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« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2011, 04:46:06 PM »

Slavu Isuzu Christu!

My mother and extended family are Carpatho-Russian (Ruthenian) Byzantine Catholics.  I listened to both podcasts, but the newest one I found a bit offensive.  The interviewee was not raised Byzantine Catholic, he was just there on his journey from Roman Catholicism to Orthodoxy.  One statement he made was the Byzantine Catholics were just "playing" Orthodoxy.  Maybe that was was he felt, but it should not be taken as an absolute.

The Byzantines do take their teachings and theology from the Eastern Fathers.   My grandma told me that the pope had sent emmissaries to bring them back into communion with Rome.  Online I read a different story, that they (Orthodox at the time) found themselves under Austo-Hungarian rule and the switch was politically motivated to get better treatment.  I'm not sure what the real story is, but I do know people in this region had a very difficult time with all the clashes of the rulers.  My Croatian Roman Catholic Baba told me stories about living in Croatia under Austro-Hungarian rule and it was not pretty.  One story she told was about an very old, poor woman who had no money to pay the taxes, so the Hungarian soldiers took her only blankets.  I imagine the Ruthenian Orthodox in Slovakia were similarily treated.   My point in this is that labelling people as "playing Orthodoxy" is a little unjust.   

WHen I was a little girl, there were so many elderly men and women who were immigrants and the Byzantine churches were full of their prayers.  I remember their simple clothes and their work-hardened hands and their lined faces.  But they had a quietness and peacefulness about them, and a sureness of God's Love.  God wasn't seen as a scientific entity but a Great, Holy Mystery.  They didn't know about theology debates or people throwing out accusations of heresy.  They just knew the Eastern Theology that was taught simply and plainly in their churches.

What I've seen here in America is the Byzantine Churches are attracting alot of traditional Roman Catholics who want the beautiful worship of the Eastern Church, but want to keep the theology and rules developed under the Roman Rite.  Some of the priests are "bi-ritual", where they are Roman Rite born and raised, but learned the Divine Liturgy to serve  Byzantine parishes that need a priest.   So, you have this mix in with the ethnic Ruthenians and priests who were always brought up with pure Eastern Theology.  Maybe the people who are running away from guitar masses might be accused of "playing Orthodox" but I don't think this is a fair assessment of all Byzantine Catholics. 
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theistgal
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« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2011, 08:20:23 PM »

My point in this is that labelling people as "playing Orthodoxy" is a little unjust. 

I agree!

However, there are times when those of us who really want to keep to the traditions of the wonderful people you describe in your post, are made to FEEL like we are just "playing Orthodoxy" - for example, the very strong push in the BC churches to get rid of Church Slavonic (because it's "too ethnic" - I have actually heard people say that!  Angry ).

If we could just emulate a tiny portion of the spirit of those elderly immigrants you describe we would all be the richer.  Kiss
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« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2011, 09:00:52 AM »

I know what you mean about wanting to go deeper into the ancient faith and traditions!  Church Slavonic is so beautiful and the Ruthenian Plainchant so soul-stirring.  These people were people of the quiet deep forests and mountains, and it comes out in the plainchant. 

If they plan to do more podcasts on the Byzantine Catholics, the producers might consider interviewing someone from the Byzantine Catholic Seminary in Pittsburgh, PA.  It would be interesting to get their take on the benefits and drawbacks of being in communion with Rome and to hear about the trials they faced being persecuted by the roman-rite hierarchy for not being Latin enough.  Also, it would be good to bear witness to the the persecution the Byzantine Catholics faced under the Soviets, how the bishops and priests were executed or deported to Siberia. 
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« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2011, 10:59:02 AM »

I just listened to two recent interviews on the Illumined Heart program at Ancient Faith Radio and wanted to pass them along in case they haven't been mentioned yet here.  The first program, dated March 31st, is with a Melkite priest named Fr. James Babcock, and the second interview is with Jeremy (Basil) Dannnebohm, a former Roman and Byzantine Catholic that later entered the Orthodox Church. 

There is much interesting discussion in these podcasts, particularly regarding the relationship of Eastern Rite Catholics to Roman Catholic dogma, and whether or not Eastern Rite Catholics are obligated to accept post-Schism Roman Catholic dogmas.  In the interview with Fr. James Babcock, I was most interested in his comments that Eastern Rite Catholicism is not a good model of unity for the Orthodox and Catholics, and his assertion that Eastern Rite Catholicism should disappear.  In the interview with Basil Dannnebohm, I was interested to see the effort he made to stay Roman and then Byzantine Catholic, and how in the end he felt that he was just "playing Orthodox" in Byzantine Catholicism.  He makes very clear the "spiritual vacuum" that he found in Roman and Eastern Catholicism, and the spiritual joy and fulfillment that he could only experience in the Orthodox Church.

Below are links to the two interviews.  What do you think?

http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/illuminedheart/eastern_catholics_are_they_orthodox

http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/illuminedheart/byzantine_catholics_journey_to_from_and_back_again_to_the_orthodox_ch


Hey can you post a review about them or repost this in this thread??
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,37390.0.html
Its pacifically for reviews so that people can see all the good ones all in one place....cheers babe

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Dave in McKinney
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« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2011, 01:01:34 PM »



I agree!

However, there are times when those of us who really want to keep to the traditions of the wonderful people you describe in your post, are made to FEEL like we are just "playing Orthodoxy" - for example, the very strong push in the BC churches to get rid of Church Slavonic (because it's "too ethnic" - I have actually heard people say that!  Angry ).

If we could just emulate a tiny portion of the spirit of those elderly immigrants you describe we would all be the richer.  Kiss

How much slavonik is being sung? 
Here in the Dallas area there are two byz cath churches.  I prefer to go to the one that is further away because it is entirely in English.  The closer one is in Ukrainian and I do not have any Ukrainian background... intetestingly enough the English one has far less latinizations.
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theistgal
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don't even go there!


« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2011, 07:28:19 PM »

Our priest issued a directive to the cantors that we're only allowed to sing one verse of one hymn in Slavonic, per liturgy.   Sad

(though on weekdays he's a little more lenient - mainly because I've let him know that if he's not, he won't have a cantor for weekday liturgies anymore.  Grin )
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"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)
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