Author Topic: western/european church?  (Read 2527 times)

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Offline henrikhankhagnell

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western/european church?
« on: May 03, 2011, 09:56:12 AM »
LAVDETVR IESVS CHRISTVS!
Was there ever an Orthodox (Oriental or Easter) in Europe who was European/western? Was the Celtic church Orthodox and was there an Orthodox Roman Catholic church? Tell me all you know about this! I need to know. I want to know.
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Offline bogdan

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Re: western/european church?
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2011, 10:02:24 AM »
Before the Great Schism that happened around 1054 AD, the Western Church (Church of Rome) was Orthodox. All of Europe was under Rome at that time, including the Celtic church.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 10:03:26 AM by bogdan »

Offline mike

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Re: western/european church?
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2011, 10:07:44 AM »
EO: The Orthodox Church of France and the Polish National Orthodox Church until they shismed.

OO: The British Orthodox Church.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 10:08:05 AM by Michał Kalina »
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Offline Alpo

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Re: western/european church?
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2011, 10:13:46 AM »
EO: The Orthodox Church of France and the Polish National Orthodox Church until they shismed.

Huh? Has PNCC been part of us? When and why they schismed?
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Offline mike

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Re: western/european church?
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2011, 10:20:31 AM »
EO: The Orthodox Church of France and the Polish National Orthodox Church until they shismed.

Huh? Has PNCC been part of us? When and why they schismed?

Polish National Orthodox Church, not the  Polish Orthodox Catholic Church.
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,19445.0.html
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polski_Narodowy_Ko%C5%9Bci%C3%B3%C5%82_Prawos%C5%82awny
« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 10:22:48 AM by Michał Kalina »
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Offline Michał

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Re: western/european church?
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2011, 11:07:20 AM »
EO: The Orthodox Church of France and the Polish National Orthodox Church until they shismed.

AFAIK, the PNOC, as a structure, never became schismatic. It simply disappeared.

The Orthodox Church of Czech and Slovak Lands also used to be Western -- consisting of Western Slavs, using Western rite -- until it received large groups of Eastern Slavs and switched to the Byzantine rite (although the latter might have been planned from the very begining, with WR as a transitional form; I don't know for sure, though).

OO: The British Orthodox Church.

They are Western ethnically, and as far as their ethos is concerned, but not liturgically.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 11:08:20 AM by Michał »

Offline Iconodule

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Re: western/european church?
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2011, 11:17:33 AM »
EO: The Orthodox Church of France

It says "In 2001, after the scandal caused by the revelation inside the church of the marriage of Bishop Germain in 1995 (which was subsequently annulled), ten parishes left the OCF and formed the Union des Associations Cultuelles Orthodoxes de Rite Occidental (UACORO - the Union of Western Rite Orthodox Worship Associations) and began negotiations in 2004 with the Church of Serbia to be canonically recognized, with the intention of the UACORO entering the Diocese of France and Western Europe. The UACORO was received individually, laity and priests, into the French diocese of the Serbian Patriarchate in 2006."

Were the UACORO people allowed to maintain Western Rite or are they all in Eastern rite parishes now?

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Offline Michał

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Re: western/european church?
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2011, 11:36:21 AM »
Were the UACORO people allowed to maintain Western Rite or are they all in Eastern rite parishes now?

They are in parishes which follow the Byzantine rite most of the time and use the Liturgy of St Germanus only a couple of times a year -- on feastdays of some important Western saints. However, some of these parishes use Western rite Divine Office on regular basis. There are chances that, in a not distant future, at least some communities deriving from Gallican rite Orthodox movement, which are now under all kinds of jurisdictions (EO, OO, canonical, uncanonical), will join the ROCOR as Western rite parishes/missions.

Offline Cognomen

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Re: western/european church?
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2011, 01:01:31 PM »
Polish National Orthodox Church, not the  Polish Orthodox Catholic Church.

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Offline ialmisry

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Re: western/european church?
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2011, 02:04:19 PM »
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LAVDETVR IESVS CHRISTVS!
Was there ever an Orthodox (Oriental or Easter) in Europe who was European/western? Was the Celtic church Orthodox and was there an Orthodox Roman Catholic church? Tell me all you know about this! I need to know. I want to know.
As has been stated, Rome and the rest were Orthodox until the Vatican went into schism and heresy and pulled the rest of the west eventually with it.

The Scandinavians and Anglo-Saxons continued to have Churches in communion with us it seems in Costantinople and Novgorod.  In England, the schism was put in place by the Norman invasion.
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Offline henrikhankhagnell

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Re: western/european church?
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2011, 02:55:31 PM »
The Scandinavians and Anglo-Saxons continued to have Churches in communion with us it seems in Costantinople and Novgorod.  In England, the schism was put in place by the Norman invasion.
???
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Offline Michał

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Re: western/european church?
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2011, 04:44:13 PM »
The Scandinavians and Anglo-Saxons continued to have Churches in communion with us it seems in Costantinople and Novgorod.  In England, the schism was put in place by the Norman invasion.
???

What Isa means is that:
1. probably even some time after 1054 there were Western rite churches in communion with the EO Church (they were run by Anlo-Saxons residing in Constantinopole and Scandinavians residing in Novogrod),
2. the Great Schism reached England in year 1066 -- with the Norman invasion (this theory is covered here: http://www.orthodoxchristianbooks.com/downloads/305_THE_FALL_OF_ORTHODOX_ENGLAND.pdf).