Author Topic: Coptic Old Testament (deuterocanonicals)?  (Read 2002 times)

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Offline Ortho_cat

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Coptic Old Testament (deuterocanonicals)?
« on: May 02, 2011, 11:11:09 PM »
Hi, I'm curious if the Coptic Orthodox accept the OT deuterocanonicals as scripture, and if so, which ones do you accept? I saw this wiki article, and it says none of them are accepted, i thought that seemd incorrect:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon

Thanks!

Online Salpy

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Re: Coptic Old Testament (deuterocanonicals)?
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2011, 11:14:14 PM »
My understanding was that their canon was the same as the Catholics.  Perhaps one of our Coptic members can correct this if it is untrue.

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Coptic Old Testament (deuterocanonicals)?
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2011, 11:22:54 PM »
Hi, I'm curious if the Coptic Orthodox accept the OT deuterocanonicals as scripture, and if so, which ones do you accept? I saw this wiki article, and it says none of them are accepted, i thought that seemd incorrect:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon

Thanks!

I don't know about the Copts in particular, but fwiw that page makes me cringe. I am not someone who usually slams wiki, as I find it to be about as accurate (or inaccurate) as most other informational sources, but the info on that particular page is just plain misleading.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2011, 11:23:42 PM by Asteriktos »

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Coptic Old Testament (deuterocanonicals)?
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2011, 11:32:23 PM »
Bi-'Khristos af-don-f!
Hi, I'm curious if the Coptic Orthodox accept the OT deuterocanonicals as scripture, and if so, which ones do you accept? I saw this wiki article, and it says none of them are accepted, i thought that seemd incorrect:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon

Thanks!

I don't know about the Copts in particular, but fwiw that page makes me cringe. I am not someone who usually slams wiki, as I find it to be about as accurate (or inaccurate) as most other informational sources, but the info on that particular page is just plain misleading.
No, the confusion actually comes from the Copts themselves: having switched to Arabic Bibles, they use the most common one, Van Dyke's, which is a Protestant Bible.  That Anagignoskomena are used in the services, though, and a number of Copts have begun to reclaim them in Arabic translation.
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Offline Jonathan

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Re: Coptic Old Testament (deuterocanonicals)?
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2011, 11:57:57 PM »
My understanding was that their canon was the same as the Catholics.  Perhaps one of our Coptic members can correct this if it is untrue.

I know Ps 151 is used on Bright Saturday, and I don't think that's in the Catholic canon, but I could be wrong. Don't remember offhand if there are any other differences.

The confusion might be because unlike Catholics, we don't accept the deuterocanonical books as equal to the protocanonical books. In St. Athanasius' paschal letter, the deuterocanonicals are listed as profitable to read, rather than listed with the protocanonicals. Practically speaking though, Sirach, Wisdom, Tobit, Ps 151, Susanna, Bel Dragon, Baruch, and the song of the three holy youths are all read liturgically in either Lent or Pascha week, so I don't think any argument could be made that they aren't accepted.

Offline copticmind

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Re: Coptic Old Testament (deuterocanonicals)?
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2011, 11:38:24 AM »
The Deuterocanonicals are part of the Coptic Orthodox Bible canon, However, in the Arabic version I have seen, 2 Ezra, 3 Maccabees, and 4 Maccabees are missing.

My understanding was that their canon was the same as the Catholics.  Perhaps one of our Coptic members can correct this if it is untrue.

I know Ps 151 is used on Bright Saturday, and I don't think that's in the Catholic canon, but I could be wrong. Don't remember offhand if there are any other differences.

The confusion might be because unlike Catholics, we don't accept the deuterocanonical books as equal to the protocanonical books. In St. Athanasius' paschal letter, the deuterocanonicals are listed as profitable to read, rather than listed with the protocanonicals. Practically speaking though, Sirach, Wisdom, Tobit, Ps 151, Susanna, Bel Dragon, Baruch, and the song of the three holy youths are all read liturgically in either Lent or Pascha week, so I don't think any argument could be made that they aren't accepted.

I am not sure about this, specially that St. Athanasius didn't include other canonical books (book of Esther for example) in his canon, and obviously today no one can say that Esther is not part of the canon.
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Online Salpy

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Re: Coptic Old Testament (deuterocanonicals)?
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2011, 11:56:04 PM »
So the Coptic canon is really more like the Armenian and EO canon?  Do you have an actual list?

Offline copticmind

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Re: Coptic Old Testament (deuterocanonicals)?
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2011, 04:51:50 AM »
So the Coptic canon is really more like the Armenian and EO canon?  Do you have an actual list?


Deuterocanonical books included in the Coptic canon:

1- Tobit
2- Judith
3- Esther (The rest of the chapters)
4- Wisdom of Solomon
5- Joshua Son of Sirach (Ecclesiasticus)
6- Baruch
7- Daniel (The rest of the chapters)
8- First of Maccabees
9- Second of Maccabees
10- Psalm 151
(11- Prayer of Manasseh) // I can't find it right now, but I have read it in several Coptic books.

The books I didn't find in the Arabic version of deuterocanonical books:

1- Second of Ezra
2- Third of Maccabees
3- Fourth of Maccabees

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