Author Topic: unity  (Read 1142 times)

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Offline henrikhankhagnell

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unity
« on: April 30, 2011, 04:52:44 PM »
Why is it so important for orthodoxs to have unity in theology but not in liturgy? If you can accept different liturgies of the churches why not also accept their theology instead of trying to have them beleiving in your theology?  ???
searching for the church that is both catholic and orthodox...

Offline HabteSelassie

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!!
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2011, 05:44:13 PM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
Why is it so important for orthodoxs to have unity in theology but not in liturgy? If you can accept different liturgies of the churches why not also accept their theology instead of trying to have them beleiving in your theology?  ???

The simple answer? Too many folks are thinking with their heads and not feeling with their hearts regarding the matter.  Who feels it knows it.  Unity is the essence of Christianity, division the crux of our weakened human condition.  Humans inherently seek to splinter and subdivide, where as God is unity and continually creates in unison.  When humans sincerely seek God out of their heart, they enter into that true Unity, where as when they think to much with our fractured minds, we can only see more and more reasons to draw lines in the sand. 

stay blessed,
habte selassie
"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: unity
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2011, 05:49:43 PM »
henrikhankhagnell,

Do you have particular theological issues in mind?
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Offline Robert W

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Re: unity
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2011, 06:04:53 PM »
Why is it so important for orthodoxs to have unity in theology but not in liturgy? If you can accept different liturgies of the churches why not also accept their theology instead of trying to have them beleiving in your theology?  ???
I don't know what you have in mind but I think that kind of reasoning would have had the Church go down by the year 34.

Would the Church be better off by having accepted gnostic, arian, or monophysite theology? The answer is of course "no". The Church can never accept another gospel or another theology than the one delivered to us.

Please explain what you have in mind. It could be that you are thinking of something that is traditionally expressed in a certain way in the east but another expression that teaches the SAME theology exists in the west.

Offline henrikhankhagnell

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Re: unity
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2011, 06:25:53 PM »
Why is it so important for orthodoxs to have unity in theology but not in liturgy? If you can accept different liturgies of the churches why not also accept their theology instead of trying to have them beleiving in your theology?  ???
I don't know what you have in mind but I think that kind of reasoning would have had the Church go down by the year 34.

Would the Church be better off by having accepted gnostic, arian, or monophysite theology? The answer is of course "no". The Church can never accept another gospel or another theology than the one delivered to us.

Please explain what you have in mind. It could be that you are thinking of something that is traditionally expressed in a certain way in the east but another expression that teaches the SAME theology exists in the west.
I was thinking about Catholic, Oriental orthodox and Eastern orthodox. Why do they want each other to beleive in the same thing, eg, accepting the same theology? They have different theology tradition and is that something bad?
searching for the church that is both catholic and orthodox...

Offline Punch

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Re: unity
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2011, 06:34:38 PM »
You confuse me.  The three are different Churches with theological differences.  We want the others to believe what we believe so they are no longer in heresy and separated from the Body of Christ.  We don't want to believe what they believe because then we would be heretics.  Granted, I am not so sure that the EO and OO are that far off, and not convinced that they don't believe the same thing anyway.  But I am not a Sobor, so what I think really does not matter.

Why is it so important for orthodoxs to have unity in theology but not in liturgy? If you can accept different liturgies of the churches why not also accept their theology instead of trying to have them beleiving in your theology?  ???
I don't know what you have in mind but I think that kind of reasoning would have had the Church go down by the year 34.

Would the Church be better off by having accepted gnostic, arian, or monophysite theology? The answer is of course "no". The Church can never accept another gospel or another theology than the one delivered to us.

Please explain what you have in mind. It could be that you are thinking of something that is traditionally expressed in a certain way in the east but another expression that teaches the SAME theology exists in the west.
I was thinking about Catholic, Oriental orthodox and Eastern orthodox. Why do they want each other to beleive in the same thing, eg, accepting the same theology? They have different theology tradition and is that something bad?
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: unity
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2011, 06:36:52 PM »
Why is it so important for orthodoxs to have unity in theology but not in liturgy? If you can accept different liturgies of the churches why not also accept their theology instead of trying to have them beleiving in your theology?  ???
Take a look at the US Republic, the French Republic, the German Federal Republic, the Italian Republic, and the modern Greek Republic, and compare them with a People's Republic.  You have to mean the same thing when you are talking about republican governmenet.
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: unity
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2011, 07:15:55 PM »
Why is it so important for orthodoxs to have unity in theology but not in liturgy? If you can accept different liturgies of the churches why not also accept their theology instead of trying to have them beleiving in your theology?  ???
I don't know what you have in mind but I think that kind of reasoning would have had the Church go down by the year 34.

Would the Church be better off by having accepted gnostic, arian, or monophysite theology? The answer is of course "no". The Church can never accept another gospel or another theology than the one delivered to us.

Please explain what you have in mind. It could be that you are thinking of something that is traditionally expressed in a certain way in the east but another expression that teaches the SAME theology exists in the west.
I was thinking about Catholic, Oriental orthodox and Eastern orthodox. Why do they want each other to beleive in the same thing, eg, accepting the same theology? They have different theology tradition and is that something bad?
Do you believe in the existence of heresy?
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if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

Πλούσιοι επτώχευσαν και επείνασαν
Οιδε εκζητούντες τον Κύριον
Ουκ ελαττωθήσονται παντός αγαθού

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: unity
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2011, 09:11:32 PM »
Why is it so important for orthodoxs to have unity in theology but not in liturgy? If you can accept different liturgies of the churches why not also accept their theology instead of trying to have them beleiving in your theology?  ???

"One faith, one Lord, one Baptism"

Jesus established for us a Church with one faith and called for us to keep it that way.
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: !!
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2011, 09:12:22 PM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
Why is it so important for orthodoxs to have unity in theology but not in liturgy? If you can accept different liturgies of the churches why not also accept their theology instead of trying to have them beleiving in your theology?  ???

The simple answer? Too many folks are thinking with their heads and not feeling with their hearts regarding the matter.  Who feels it knows it.  Unity is the essence of Christianity, division the crux of our weakened human condition.  Humans inherently seek to splinter and subdivide, where as God is unity and continually creates in unison.  When humans sincerely seek God out of their heart, they enter into that true Unity, where as when they think to much with our fractured minds, we can only see more and more reasons to draw lines in the sand. 

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Not surprised to hear such borderline heretical ecumenist babble from you.
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: unity
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2011, 09:14:09 PM »
Why do they want each other to beleive in the same thing, eg, accepting the same theology?

Because theology tells the story of what made/makes salvation possible. Without it salvation cannot be explained and therefore striven for.

They have different theology tradition and is that something bad?

Yes, because only Orthodox theology depicts the reality by which our salvation is made possible.
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: unity
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2011, 09:15:09 PM »
You confuse me.  The three are different Churches with theological differences.  We want the others to believe what we believe so they are no longer in heresy and separated from the Body of Christ.  We don't want to believe what they believe because then we would be heretics.  Granted, I am not so sure that the EO and OO are that far off, and not convinced that they don't believe the same thing anyway.  But I am not a Sobor, so what I think really does not matter.

Yes. Aside from disagreement on whether the EO or OO are the Church, this seems very sound-minded to me.
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Offline HabteSelassie

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Re: !!
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2011, 07:42:53 PM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
Why is it so important for orthodoxs to have unity in theology but not in liturgy? If you can accept different liturgies of the churches why not also accept their theology instead of trying to have them beleiving in your theology?  ???

The simple answer? Too many folks are thinking with their heads and not feeling with their hearts regarding the matter.  Who feels it knows it.  Unity is the essence of Christianity, division the crux of our weakened human condition.  Humans inherently seek to splinter and subdivide, where as God is unity and continually creates in unison.  When humans sincerely seek God out of their heart, they enter into that true Unity, where as when they think to much with our fractured minds, we can only see more and more reasons to draw lines in the sand. 

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Not surprised to hear such borderline heretical ecumenist babble from you.
Sticks and stones my brother, sticks and stones.

By the way:

Quote
"Reject a sectarian man after a first and second warning." Titus 3:10

stay blessed,
habte selassie
"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: !!
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2011, 04:28:03 PM »
Sticks and stones my brother, sticks and stones.

I don't despise you, Habte. You're a decent fellow. I've just witnessed a number of your theological explanations being essentially heterodox.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: !!
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2011, 04:38:10 PM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
Why is it so important for orthodoxs to have unity in theology but not in liturgy? If you can accept different liturgies of the churches why not also accept their theology instead of trying to have them beleiving in your theology?  ???

The simple answer? Too many folks are thinking with their heads and not feeling with their hearts regarding the matter.  Who feels it knows it.  Unity is the essence of Christianity, division the crux of our weakened human condition.  Humans inherently seek to splinter and subdivide, where as God is unity and continually creates in unison.  When humans sincerely seek God out of their heart, they enter into that true Unity, where as when they think to much with our fractured minds, we can only see more and more reasons to draw lines in the sand. 

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Not surprised to hear such borderline heretical ecumenist babble from you.

Can you point out the "heretical babble" here. Be specific. Quote something and point out how it is "heretical", a term I don't think you meant to use.

Not that he cannot defend himself, but for my money he consistently writes some of the most well-written, thoughtful, and certainly heartfelt posts here. So if he is a "heretic", I fear I could be one as well, as I find much edification in his posts.

Again, if you decide to defend your comments, please be specific. You could be saving me from heresy.
Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.

Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: unity
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2011, 09:53:17 AM »
Why is it so important for orthodoxs to have unity in theology but not in liturgy? If you can accept different liturgies of the churches why not also accept their theology instead of trying to have them beleiving in your theology?  ???

I'm still confused by the "different liturgies." What do you mean?

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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: !!
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2011, 10:01:03 AM »
Sticks and stones my brother, sticks and stones.

I don't despise you, Habte. You're a decent fellow. I've just witnessed a number of your theological explanations being essentially heterodox.

You seem like a well versed young man. How then can you reconcile calling others 'heterodox' or beyond when you list your faith as 'not sure' and your jurisdiction as 'none?' I can understand the need for some to be on a spiritual journey, if you will, in order to determine where one stands in terms of faith and religion, but aren't you sort of like the pot calling the kettle black? Perhaps I misunderstand you, I am not trying to offend, but rather seek clarification. Thank you.