Author Topic: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate  (Read 7598 times)

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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #45 on: May 01, 2011, 11:13:33 PM »
Chrystus zmartwychwstał!
What's shocking in this all?
Nothing. Normal Catholics would be confounded and angry if the Church allowed married priests. This is our Holy Tradition.
My mother and grandmother were astounded when they read in Catholic newspapers that the Vatican would allow married priests for the Anglicans. In the eyes of Catholics, even this exception from the law is too far reaching.
Just showing how parochial and heretical the Vatican is, that its followers, confroted by Apostolic practice, would be astounded.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #46 on: May 01, 2011, 11:17:54 PM »
Christ is risen!
Christ is risen!
I agree. Which is why they should become Western Rite Orthodox. The Orthodox don't get confused by institutions instituted by God, like marriage.

Interesting ... so if an Anglican minister approached the Orthodox Church and said "I believe in the Immaculate Conception, the filioque, Papal Primacy and Papal Infallibility, but I want to become Orthodox because you guys allow married clergy" ... that would be fine?

Usually Anglicans do not hold these beliefs that is why there are many Anglicans surprised that there are those that would join the Latin Church.

True. However, I think you missed my point.
no, he hit it head on.

My point was that, if an Anglican priest wants to become Eastern Orthodox, he (or she) has to accept Orthodox doctrine. Right?
Indeed!  But, rather disingenuously, it is said that mandated celibacy is a discipline not a doctrine, and its seems, from what some say, that they expected that married clergy would be a permanent part of the Anglican use, as, supposedly, it is among the Vatican's Eastern rites.

I don't know what you mean by the Vatican's eastern rites. Last time I checked the Vatican was western-rite.  ???
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/orientchurch/index.htm

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_jp-ii_apc_19901018_index-codex-can-eccl-orient_lt.html

As far as "its seems, from what some say, that they expected that married clergy would be a permanent part of the Anglican use", I found a thread from a couple months ago that might help. I suggest you start here:
http://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/360782/Peter%20J#Post360782
Why would I start on a "Byzantine" forum to find out what Western Anglicans are thining?
« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 11:34:58 PM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
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and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #47 on: May 01, 2011, 11:38:14 PM »
Christos Voskrese!
Christ is risen!
Welcome to the real world.

This must be said, for a number of reasons,  but the reality will be that the Anglicans will petition to ordain married men on a case by case basis...just as in the eastern Churches.

What are you talking about. Petition to whom? To Pope? Every time an Eastern Catholic seminary student wants to marry?

You have no idea what it took for Pope Benedict to be able to offer that prelature so that the Anglican rite would become one of the several western rites in the Roman Church without having it be absorbed into the Roman rite.  No idea at all of the great achievement in diplomacy that was on the part of our current Pope.  Nor do you have any idea what it cost him.
So much fior the much vaunted claims of Pastor Aeternus.

They are about as efficacious as those vaulted claims for consiliarism, sobornost and synergy that really only pertain in the third heaven or higher.... :D :D :D :D :D
Well good, then you won't feel obligated to foist your useless supreme pontiff on us, as we all know that consilarity has worked at least 7 times, and we know that ex cathedra Vaticana have never worked once.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Robb

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #48 on: May 02, 2011, 01:19:37 AM »
What's shocking in this all?
Nothing. Normal Catholics would be confounded and angry if the Church allowed married priests. This is our Holy Tradition.
My mother and grandmother were astounded when they read in Catholic newspapers that the Vatican would allow married priests for the Anglicans. In the eyes of Catholics, even this exception from the law is too far reaching.

I don't see what is so distressing about married priest.  There were many married priest in the west before the 11 century.

Maybe a married clergy is shocking to you in Poland, but here in the USA, most RC's are for it.
Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert

Online Justin Kissel

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #49 on: May 02, 2011, 01:25:25 AM »
Chrystus zmartwychwstał!
What's shocking in this all?
Nothing. Normal Catholics would be confounded and angry if the Church allowed married priests. This is our Holy Tradition.
My mother and grandmother were astounded when they read in Catholic newspapers that the Vatican would allow married priests for the Anglicans. In the eyes of Catholics, even this exception from the law is too far reaching.
Just showing how parochial and heretical the Vatican is, that its followers, confroted by Apostolic practice, would be astounded.

From the impression I get from my Catholic relatives, I think the reaction of most of them would be "It's about time!" When it comes to married priests, contraception, etc., most just don't care what the "traditional" position of Catholicism is.

Offline Robb

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #50 on: May 02, 2011, 01:25:48 AM »
I thing I would like to know is, despite all these attempts by both Orthodoxy and the RCC to attract Anglicans by special provisions and liturgies, how many Anglicans actually end up leaving their own Communion and going over to the RC/OC's?

I somehow feel that the real numbers of those who leave the Anglican Communion are not as significant as we would like to believe.  Anglicans, in the west anyway are only a small fraction of Christians when compared to the RCC, OC, and larger evangelical groups.  Most are probably more liberal anyway and see no problem with the direction their respective Communion is heading in (Except for Africa).  So is all this fuss in trying to appease some Conservative Anglican groups really worth the big deal that some make it out to be?
Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert

Offline Peter J

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #51 on: May 02, 2011, 09:45:39 AM »
Christ is risen!
as, supposedly, it is among the Vatican's Eastern rites.

I don't know what you mean by the Vatican's eastern rites. Last time I checked the Vatican was western-rite.  ???
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/orientchurch/index.htm

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_jp-ii_apc_19901018_index-codex-can-eccl-orient_lt.html

Oh, I see. So "the Vatican's eastern rites" means the Congregation for the Oriental Churches?

Always nice to learn something new. ;D
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline Peter J

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #52 on: May 02, 2011, 09:50:36 AM »
What's shocking in this all?
Nothing. Normal Catholics would be confounded and angry if the Church allowed married priests. This is our Holy Tradition.
My mother and grandmother were astounded when they read in Catholic newspapers that the Vatican would allow married priests for the Anglicans. In the eyes of Catholics, even this exception from the law is too far reaching.

I don't see what is so distressing about married priest.  There were many married priest in the west before the 11 century.

Maybe a married clergy is shocking to you in Poland, but here in the USA, most RC's are for it.

Hi Robb. Technically you're right, most RCs are in favor of married clergy. But unfortunately, the number of RCs who are in favor of female priests is only slightly lower, so ...  :(
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline Michał

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #53 on: May 02, 2011, 10:21:05 AM »
Normal Catholics would be confounded and angry if the Church allowed married priests.

By "normal Catholics" you mean the ignorant ones?

In the eyes of Catholics, even this exception from the law is too far reaching.

All it means is that those Catholics you are referring to have insufficient knowledge of the subject.

Offline synLeszka

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #54 on: May 02, 2011, 10:28:40 AM »
Chrystus zmartwychwstał!
What's shocking in this all?
Nothing. Normal Catholics would be confounded and angry if the Church allowed married priests. This is our Holy Tradition.
My mother and grandmother were astounded when they read in Catholic newspapers that the Vatican would allow married priests for the Anglicans. In the eyes of Catholics, even this exception from the law is too far reaching.
Just showing how parochial and heretical the Vatican is, that its followers, confroted by Apostolic practice, would be astounded.

From the impression I get from my Catholic relatives, I think the reaction of most of them would be "It's about time!" When it comes to married priests, contraception, etc., most just don't care what the "traditional" position of Catholicism is.
This just shows how far people in the West have gone from Catholicism. Perhaps, this is the reason why churches are closing in the West. I don't want married priests in my church. There are plenty of sects where you can play "Eucharist" and be married.
Call me parochial, that's the Catholicism I know. I could no longer trust a church, in which the priests' sons murdered their neighbours.
Heretical, I'm sorry but what has the Patriarch of Constantinople called the Romanians and Russians?

Offline mike

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #55 on: May 02, 2011, 10:29:17 AM »
I don't want married priests in my church. There are plenty of sects where you can play "Eucharist" and be married.

You already have.

Offline Michał

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #56 on: May 02, 2011, 11:05:22 AM »
I don't want married priests in my church. There are plenty of sects where you can play "Eucharist" and be married.

You already have.

Hush! Don't make synLeszka "confounded and angry"! :D

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #57 on: May 02, 2011, 11:15:56 AM »
Chrystus zmartwychwstał!
What's shocking in this all?
Nothing. Normal Catholics would be confounded and angry if the Church allowed married priests. This is our Holy Tradition.
My mother and grandmother were astounded when they read in Catholic newspapers that the Vatican would allow married priests for the Anglicans. In the eyes of Catholics, even this exception from the law is too far reaching.
Just showing how parochial and heretical the Vatican is, that its followers, confroted by Apostolic practice, would be astounded.

From the impression I get from my Catholic relatives, I think the reaction of most of them would be "It's about time!" When it comes to married priests, contraception, etc., most just don't care what the "traditional" position of Catholicism is.
This just shows how far people in the West have gone from Catholicism. Perhaps, this is the reason why churches are closing in the West. I don't want married priests in my church. There are plenty of sects where you can play "Eucharist" and be married.
Call me parochial, that's the Catholicism I know. I could no longer trust a church, in which the priests' sons murdered their neighbours.
Heretical, I'm sorry but what has the Patriarch of Constantinople called the Romanians and Russians?

Good thing you weren't around during the era of the Borgia popes! Cesare Borgia did in more than a few of his dad's, the pope's, enemies, while he was a 'cardinal.'

Seriously, if I recall you once said that one of your grandfathers was Galician. Was he not then a Greek Catholic with a history of a married clergy? Were they 'playing' Eucharist?

There are many Eastern Catholics online who regard themselves as faithful, 'normal Catholics' with their history of married clergy. Archbishop Ireland didn't regard Father Toth and his congregation as 'normal Catholics' either and you know where that ended up.

I think you owe your Eastern Catholic co-religionists, as well as the Orthodox, an apology for the 'playing Eucharist' crack.

By the way, the local Byzantine Catholic parish down the street is receiving a married priest with a family next month as their pastor. Talk about irony.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2011, 11:19:11 AM by podkarpatska »

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #58 on: May 02, 2011, 12:29:17 PM »
Chrystus zmartwychwstał!
What's shocking in this all?
Nothing. Normal Catholics would be confounded and angry if the Church allowed married priests. This is our Holy Tradition.
My mother and grandmother were astounded when they read in Catholic newspapers that the Vatican would allow married priests for the Anglicans. In the eyes of Catholics, even this exception from the law is too far reaching.
Just showing how parochial and heretical the Vatican is, that its followers, confroted by Apostolic practice, would be astounded.

From the impression I get from my Catholic relatives, I think the reaction of most of them would be "It's about time!" When it comes to married priests, contraception, etc., most just don't care what the "traditional" position of Catholicism is.
This just shows how far people in the West have gone from Catholicism. Perhaps, this is the reason why churches are closing in the West. I don't want married priests in my church. There are plenty of sects where you can play "Eucharist" and be married.
Call me parochial, that's the Catholicism I know. I could no longer trust a church, in which the priests' sons murdered their neighbours.

How about your ecclesiastical community, in which priests murdered their neighbors?
Heretical, I'm sorry but what has the Patriarch of Constantinople called the Romanians and Russians?
Romanians and Russians, as far as I know.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #59 on: May 02, 2011, 12:31:37 PM »
Christ is risen!
as, supposedly, it is among the Vatican's Eastern rites.

I don't know what you mean by the Vatican's eastern rites. Last time I checked the Vatican was western-rite.  ???
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/orientchurch/index.htm

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_jp-ii_apc_19901018_index-codex-can-eccl-orient_lt.html

Oh, I see. So "the Vatican's eastern rites" means the Congregation for the Oriental Churches?

Always nice to learn something new. ;D
The Congregation for the Oriental Churches is made up of Latin bishops, and the Code of Canon Law for the Eastern Churches is in Latin.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline elijahmaria

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #60 on: May 02, 2011, 12:57:48 PM »
Christ is risen!
as, supposedly, it is among the Vatican's Eastern rites.

I don't know what you mean by the Vatican's eastern rites. Last time I checked the Vatican was western-rite.  ???
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/orientchurch/index.htm

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_jp-ii_apc_19901018_index-codex-can-eccl-orient_lt.html

Oh, I see. So "the Vatican's eastern rites" means the Congregation for the Oriental Churches?

Always nice to learn something new. ;D
The Congregation for the Oriental Churches is made up of Latin bishops, and the Code of Canon Law for the Eastern Churches is in Latin.

Partial truth is good...I guess.


Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #62 on: May 02, 2011, 02:06:30 PM »
Christ is risen!
as, supposedly, it is among the Vatican's Eastern rites.

I don't know what you mean by the Vatican's eastern rites. Last time I checked the Vatican was western-rite.  ???
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/orientchurch/index.htm

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_jp-ii_apc_19901018_index-codex-can-eccl-orient_lt.html

Oh, I see. So "the Vatican's eastern rites" means the Congregation for the Oriental Churches?

Always nice to learn something new. ;D
The Congregation for the Oriental Churches is made up of Latin bishops, and the Code of Canon Law for the Eastern Churches is in Latin.

I know a few Eastern Catholics who view the congregation in the same light that Native American peoples view the Bureau of Indian Affairs!  :laugh:

Offline elijahmaria

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #63 on: May 02, 2011, 02:17:34 PM »
I know a few Eastern Catholics who view the congregation in the same light that Native American peoples view the Bureau of Indian Affairs!  :laugh:

Having encountered the BIA up close, I'd say it's a fair comparison...Their revulsion for native control over native affairs and all that....

Offline Robb

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #64 on: May 02, 2011, 04:13:40 PM »
What's shocking in this all?
Nothing. Normal Catholics would be confounded and angry if the Church allowed married priests. This is our Holy Tradition.
My mother and grandmother were astounded when they read in Catholic newspapers that the Vatican would allow married priests for the Anglicans. In the eyes of Catholics, even this exception from the law is too far reaching.

I don't see what is so distressing about married priest.  There were many married priest in the west before the 11 century.

Maybe a married clergy is shocking to you in Poland, but here in the USA, most RC's are for it.

Hi Robb. Technically you're right, most RCs are in favor of married clergy. But unfortunately, the number of RCs who are in favor of female priests is only slightly lower, so ...  :(

I know that, but don't lump the two together.  A celibate clergy is a discipline, while it would be heretical to ordain women as priest.  Just because the majority of Catholics favor both, that does not mean that both opinions are wrong.
Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert

Offline Michał

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #65 on: May 02, 2011, 04:25:58 PM »
I know that, but don't lump the two together.  A celibate clergy is a discipline, while it would be heretical to ordain women as priest.  Just because the majority of Catholics favor both, that does not mean that both opinions are wrong.

Good point. Many traditionalist RCs seems to miss it, tough.

Offline Peter J

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #66 on: May 02, 2011, 04:31:47 PM »
What's shocking in this all?
Nothing. Normal Catholics would be confounded and angry if the Church allowed married priests. This is our Holy Tradition.
My mother and grandmother were astounded when they read in Catholic newspapers that the Vatican would allow married priests for the Anglicans. In the eyes of Catholics, even this exception from the law is too far reaching.

I don't see what is so distressing about married priest.  There were many married priest in the west before the 11 century.

Maybe a married clergy is shocking to you in Poland, but here in the USA, most RC's are for it.

Hi Robb. Technically you're right, most RCs are in favor of married clergy. But unfortunately, the number of RCs who are in favor of female priests is only slightly lower, so ...  :(

I know that, but don't lump the two together.  A celibate clergy is a discipline, while it would be heretical to ordain women as priest.  Just because the majority of Catholics favor both, that does not mean that both opinions are wrong.

I don't want to lump them together by any means. I'm just saying that we shouldn't be overly optimistic about the typical Catholic.
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline countertenor

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #67 on: May 02, 2011, 05:42:09 PM »
What's shocking in this all?
Nothing. Normal Catholics would be confounded and angry if the Church allowed married priests. This is our Holy Tradition.
My mother and grandmother were astounded when they read in Catholic newspapers that the Vatican would allow married priests for the Anglicans. In the eyes of Catholics, even this exception from the law is too far reaching.

I don't see what is so distressing about married priest.  There were many married priest in the west before the 11 century.

Maybe a married clergy is shocking to you in Poland, but here in the USA, most RC's are for it.

Hi Robb. Technically you're right, most RCs are in favor of married clergy. But unfortunately, the number of RCs who are in favor of female priests is only slightly lower, so ...  :(

I know that, but don't lump the two together.  A celibate clergy is a discipline, while it would be heretical to ordain women as priest.  Just because the majority of Catholics favor both, that does not mean that both opinions are wrong.

I don't want to lump them together by any means. I'm just saying that we shouldn't be overly optimistic about the typical Catholic.

We could be more optimistic about the "typical Catholic" if the typical bishop and priest bothered educating their flock rather than assuming they're too stupid to get it.  Then again maybe many of the clergy prefer their flocks to be uneducated, it makes it easier to control and/or ignore them depending on the person's inclination.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2011, 05:43:01 PM by countertenor »

Offline elijahmaria

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #68 on: May 02, 2011, 06:28:13 PM »
We could be more optimistic about the "typical Catholic" if the typical bishop and priest bothered educating their flock rather than assuming they're too stupid to get it.  Then again maybe many of the clergy prefer their flocks to be uneducated, it makes it easier to control and/or ignore them depending on the person's inclination.

You are singing my song, love!!

M.

Offline Wyatt

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #69 on: May 03, 2011, 12:55:26 PM »
I don't want to lump them together by any means. I'm just saying that we shouldn't be overly optimistic about the typical Catholic.
The problem with the "typical Catholic" is that the typical Catholic is often a cradle Catholic, and many times (but not always) they tend to be very lukewarm when it comes to the faith. I do know some lifelong Catholics who are rather zealous about their faith (especially the little old ladies that never miss Mass and go to confession every week), but for the most part it seems that the adult converts are the most passionate about Catholicism.

Offline Papist

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #70 on: May 03, 2011, 12:58:36 PM »
Christ is risen!
as, supposedly, it is among the Vatican's Eastern rites.

I don't know what you mean by the Vatican's eastern rites. Last time I checked the Vatican was western-rite.  ???
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/orientchurch/index.htm

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_jp-ii_apc_19901018_index-codex-can-eccl-orient_lt.html

Oh, I see. So "the Vatican's eastern rites" means the Congregation for the Oriental Churches?

Always nice to learn something new. ;D
The Congregation for the Oriental Churches is made up of Latin bishops, and the Code of Canon Law for the Eastern Churches is in Latin.

Partial truth is good...I guess.
It doesn't matter with Izzy. If we Catholics don't use the restroom exactly the way Izzy thinks we should, he starts crying, "heresy! heresy!"
Once a Lutheran, always a Lutheran I suppose.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 12:58:48 PM by Papist »
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #71 on: May 03, 2011, 01:41:42 PM »
Christ is risen!
as, supposedly, it is among the Vatican's Eastern rites.

I don't know what you mean by the Vatican's eastern rites. Last time I checked the Vatican was western-rite.  ???
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/orientchurch/index.htm

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_jp-ii_apc_19901018_index-codex-can-eccl-orient_lt.html

Oh, I see. So "the Vatican's eastern rites" means the Congregation for the Oriental Churches?

Always nice to learn something new. ;D
The Congregation for the Oriental Churches is made up of Latin bishops, and the Code of Canon Law for the Eastern Churches is in Latin.

Partial truth is good...I guess.
It doesn't matter with Izzy. If we Catholics don't use the restroom exactly the way Izzy thinks we should, he starts crying, "heresy! heresy!"
Once a Lutheran, always a Lutheran I suppose.
I suppose that, Papist, those grasping after straws, will eventually turn to chaff, as here.  Tell us, papist, pray tell, of this alleged Lutheran heresy you claim.

I don't care whatever you are doing with yourself in the bathroom.

Speaking of Luther though, and bathrooms, the Borgias had a demonstration of a lovely tradition of the time before the pope was installed:
Quote
The Roman Church, according to legend, stipulated that anyone elected Pope should prove that his genitalia were intact. To this end a special chair was fashioned that had a horseshoe-shaped seat. The Pope to be would sit on the seat and the cardinals would pass by, checking the papal procession and proclaiming: ‘testiculos habet et bene pendentes’. A loose translation being: ‘testicles he has and well-hung ones’.

It is unclear when the custom first begun. The reason for its initiation is that according to the Law of Moses eunuchs could not enter into the sanctuary. Leviticus considered castrated animals and humans as unworthy of the sacrifice, both in a literal and a religious sense.
http://www.newint.org/features/1993/06/05/curious/

The chair is called "sedia stercoraria," "the dung chair"  Interesting, the chair of St. Peter?
here they hebemus papam by the ......

A shame Vatican II did away with all these quaint customs of a papal coronation.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 01:44:18 PM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Papist

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #72 on: May 03, 2011, 01:45:54 PM »
Christ is risen!
as, supposedly, it is among the Vatican's Eastern rites.

I don't know what you mean by the Vatican's eastern rites. Last time I checked the Vatican was western-rite.  ???
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/orientchurch/index.htm

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_jp-ii_apc_19901018_index-codex-can-eccl-orient_lt.html

Oh, I see. So "the Vatican's eastern rites" means the Congregation for the Oriental Churches?

Always nice to learn something new. ;D
The Congregation for the Oriental Churches is made up of Latin bishops, and the Code of Canon Law for the Eastern Churches is in Latin.

Partial truth is good...I guess.
It doesn't matter with Izzy. If we Catholics don't use the restroom exactly the way Izzy thinks we should, he starts crying, "heresy! heresy!"
Once a Lutheran, always a Lutheran I suppose.
I suppose that, Papist, those grasping after straws, will eventually turn to chaff, as here.  Tell us, papist, pray tell, of this alleged Lutheran heresy you claim.

I don't care whatever you are doing with yourself in the bathroom.

Speaking of Luther though, and bathrooms, the Borgias had a demonstration of a lovely tradition of the time before the pope was installed:
Quote
The Roman Church, according to legend, stipulated that anyone elected Pope should prove that his genitalia were intact. To this end a special chair was fashioned that had a horseshoe-shaped seat. The Pope to be would sit on the seat and the cardinals would pass by, checking the papal procession and proclaiming: ‘testiculos habet et bene pendentes’. A loose translation being: ‘testicles he has and well-hung ones’.

It is unclear when the custom first begun. The reason for its initiation is that according to the Law of Moses eunuchs could not enter into the sanctuary. Leviticus considered castrated animals and humans as unworthy of the sacrifice, both in a literal and a religious sense.
http://www.newint.org/features/1993/06/05/curious/

The chair is called "sedia stercoraria," "the dung chair"  Interesting, the chair of St. Peter?
here they hebemus papam by the ......

A shame Vatican II did away with all these quaint customs of a papal coronation.
See what I mean? He is more concerned with "dung chairs" than Christian truth.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #73 on: May 03, 2011, 01:56:32 PM »
Christ is risen!
as, supposedly, it is among the Vatican's Eastern rites.

I don't know what you mean by the Vatican's eastern rites. Last time I checked the Vatican was western-rite.  ???
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/orientchurch/index.htm

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_jp-ii_apc_19901018_index-codex-can-eccl-orient_lt.html

Oh, I see. So "the Vatican's eastern rites" means the Congregation for the Oriental Churches?

Always nice to learn something new. ;D
The Congregation for the Oriental Churches is made up of Latin bishops, and the Code of Canon Law for the Eastern Churches is in Latin.

Partial truth is good...I guess.
It doesn't matter with Izzy. If we Catholics don't use the restroom exactly the way Izzy thinks we should, he starts crying, "heresy! heresy!"
Once a Lutheran, always a Lutheran I suppose.
I suppose that, Papist, those grasping after straws, will eventually turn to chaff, as here.  Tell us, papist, pray tell, of this alleged Lutheran heresy you claim.

I don't care whatever you are doing with yourself in the bathroom.

Speaking of Luther though, and bathrooms, the Borgias had a demonstration of a lovely tradition of the time before the pope was installed:
Quote
The Roman Church, according to legend, stipulated that anyone elected Pope should prove that his genitalia were intact. To this end a special chair was fashioned that had a horseshoe-shaped seat. The Pope to be would sit on the seat and the cardinals would pass by, checking the papal procession and proclaiming: ‘testiculos habet et bene pendentes’. A loose translation being: ‘testicles he has and well-hung ones’.

It is unclear when the custom first begun. The reason for its initiation is that according to the Law of Moses eunuchs could not enter into the sanctuary. Leviticus considered castrated animals and humans as unworthy of the sacrifice, both in a literal and a religious sense.
http://www.newint.org/features/1993/06/05/curious/

The chair is called "sedia stercoraria," "the dung chair"  Interesting, the chair of St. Peter?
here they hebemus papam by the ......

A shame Vatican II did away with all these quaint customs of a papal coronation.
See what I mean? He is more concerned with "dung chairs" than Christian truth.
LOL. I don't look for the Christian truth from ecclesiastical communities concerned with "dung chairs" and unused testicles.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Papist

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #74 on: May 03, 2011, 02:07:05 PM »
LOL. I don't look for the Christian truth from ecclesiastical communities concerned with "dung chairs" and unused testicles.
Once again... more concerned with our bathroom habbits. You are such a silly little man Izzy.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline elijahmaria

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #75 on: May 03, 2011, 02:24:19 PM »
LOL. I don't look for the Christian truth from ecclesiastical communities concerned with "dung chairs" and unused testicles.
Once again... more concerned with our bathroom habbits. You are such a silly little man Izzy.

 :D :D :D

chick-chick...chick-chick....chick chick chick!!

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #76 on: May 03, 2011, 02:42:26 PM »
Christus resurrexit.
LOL. I don't look for the Christian truth from ecclesiastical communities concerned with "dung chairs" and unused testicles.
Once again... more concerned with our bathroom habbits. You are such a silly little man Izzy.
I see you missed this:
I don't care whatever you are doing with yourself in the bathroom..
You're the ones feeling up your primates, not I.  In fact, we have had primates who would have failed such a test, like EP St. Ignatius (the one whom Pope St. Nicholas used to create a schism to assert Ultramontanist claims).  We have neither the Judaizing tendencies nor obsession for a constructed "natural law" to check these things out on celibates.  (Of course, having a beard usiual makes it unnecessary to look and check out other parts other than the face).  I do have to agree with the cardinal's lines in "the Borgias" on your supreme pontiff Alexander VI "you would think that his children would be proof enough, or maybe his mistress can testify as to his virility" or something like that (they were mumbling: when your vicar of Christ passed the test, the cardinal did say distinctly "two hard ones. Deo Gratia").
« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 02:45:59 PM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #77 on: May 03, 2011, 02:44:24 PM »
Christus resurrexit!
LOL. I don't look for the Christian truth from ecclesiastical communities concerned with "dung chairs" and unused testicles.
Once again... more concerned with our bathroom habbits. You are such a silly little man Izzy.

 :D :D :D

chick-chick...chick-chick....chick chick chick!!
Is that St. Peter in cock's crow?  There's not supposed to be a chick in that hen house, just roosters.  Which of course why the place is such a cock fight. :D :D :D
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline elijahmaria

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #78 on: May 03, 2011, 02:50:01 PM »
Christus resurrexit!
LOL. I don't look for the Christian truth from ecclesiastical communities concerned with "dung chairs" and unused testicles.
Once again... more concerned with our bathroom habbits. You are such a silly little man Izzy.

 :D :D :D

chick-chick...chick-chick....chick chick chick!!
Is that St. Peter in cock's crow?  There's not supposed to be a chick in that hen house, just roosters.  Which of course why the place is such a cock fight. :D :D :D

Well...let's not do this or someone will prick the veil that is cast over the Holy Mountain and then where will all those Greek boys go?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 02:52:59 PM by elijahmaria »

Offline synLeszka

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #79 on: May 03, 2011, 03:02:04 PM »
I am sorry but my mother and grandmothers are not intelligent internet blogger Catholics, who were given by God the right to anathemise and insult bishops. They cannot read Latin nor speak any other languages, they are not college graduates but they feed me and have passed the faith onto me.  I do not view them as ignorant. They taught me how to pray the Holy Rosary; how to make the sign of the cross; they forced me to go to church when I did not want to; force me to work when I want to sit idle. I thought that someone was going to say this. I laughed at that idea, when I heard them singing the litany to Our Lady, downstairs, yes out of tune, in old women chant but every prayer is beautiful. How often do you people sing at home to the Virgin Mary? I don't remember a day when I do not hear my grandmother singing hymns or praying the Rosary at home.  
    
I don't feel any regrets that I listen to my elders.

As an aside:
Galicyja was a grand country, a country that will never return. All we can have is sweet memories and the weird Austro-Hungarian dialect of Polish. My family was from Western Galicyja not Eastern. There was never Rusin settlement in Mielec.
 
Galicja in 1910 was 58% Polish and 40% Ukrainian

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #80 on: May 03, 2011, 03:28:35 PM »
Christos Voskrese!
Christus resurrexit!
LOL. I don't look for the Christian truth from ecclesiastical communities concerned with "dung chairs" and unused testicles.
Once again... more concerned with our bathroom habbits. You are such a silly little man Izzy.

 :D :D :D

chick-chick...chick-chick....chick chick chick!!
Is that St. Peter in cock's crow?  There's not supposed to be a chick in that hen house, just roosters.  Which of course why the place is such a cock fight. :D :D :D

Well...let's not do this or someone will prick the veil that is cast over the Holy Mountain and then where will all those Greek boys go?
I've never been to Mount Athos (to me, Holy Mountain means Sinai), but if you say that they check for manhood at the dock, I'll take your word for it, as you seem to know more about it.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline elijahmaria

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #81 on: May 03, 2011, 03:33:16 PM »
Beautiful post.  Both of my grandmothers are silent now and my mother will join them sooner rather than later, and I expect I'll not be far behind  :)...So it is good to know that the younger ones will remember and important to give them beautiful memories to keep safe and sound.

Christ is Risen!

M.

I am sorry but my mother and grandmothers are not intelligent internet blogger Catholics, who were given by God the right to anathemise and insult bishops. They cannot read Latin nor speak any other languages, they are not college graduates but they feed me and have passed the faith onto me.  I do not view them as ignorant. They taught me how to pray the Holy Rosary; how to make the sign of the cross; they forced me to go to church when I did not want to; force me to work when I want to sit idle. I thought that someone was going to say this. I laughed at that idea, when I heard them singing the litany to Our Lady, downstairs, yes out of tune, in old women chant but every prayer is beautiful. How often do you people sing at home to the Virgin Mary? I don't remember a day when I do not hear my grandmother singing hymns or praying the Rosary at home.  
    
I don't feel any regrets that I listen to my elders.

As an aside:
Galicyja was a grand country, a country that will never return. All we can have is sweet memories and the weird Austro-Hungarian dialect of Polish. My family was from Western Galicyja not Eastern. There was never Rusin settlement in Mielec.
 
Galicja in 1910 was 58% Polish and 40% Ukrainian

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #82 on: May 03, 2011, 03:38:02 PM »
Chrystus zmartwychwstał!
I am sorry but my mother and grandmothers are not intelligent internet blogger Catholics, who were given by God the right to anathemise and insult bishops. They cannot read Latin nor speak any other languages, they are not college graduates but they feed me and have passed the faith onto me.  I do not view them as ignorant. They taught me how to pray the Holy Rosary; how to make the sign of the cross; they forced me to go to church when I did not want to; force me to work when I want to sit idle. I thought that someone was going to say this. I laughed at that idea, when I heard them singing the litany to Our Lady, downstairs, yes out of tune, in old women chant but every prayer is beautiful. How often do you people sing at home to the Virgin Mary? I don't remember a day when I do not hear my grandmother singing hymns or praying the Rosary at home.  
    
I don't feel any regrets that I listen to my elders.

As an aside:
Galicyja was a grand country, a country that will never return. All we can have is sweet memories and the weird Austro-Hungarian dialect of Polish. My family was from Western Galicyja not Eastern. There was never Rusin settlement in Mielec.
 
Galicja in 1910 was 58% Polish and 40% Ukrainian
Ah, so you are from the Polish peasantry of Halych. Explains a lot. A lot indeed.

Mielec was in the Subcarpathian Voivodship.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Robb

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #83 on: May 03, 2011, 04:09:29 PM »
I don't want to lump them together by any means. I'm just saying that we shouldn't be overly optimistic about the typical Catholic.
The problem with the "typical Catholic" is that the typical Catholic is often a cradle Catholic, and many times (but not always) they tend to be very lukewarm when it comes to the faith. I do know some lifelong Catholics who are rather zealous about their faith (especially the little old ladies that never miss Mass and go to confession every week), but for the most part it seems that the adult converts are the most passionate about Catholicism.

This sounds like typical convert rhetoric which seeks to bash anyone whose a cradle as "lukewarm" and "irreligious".  Lets not forget that, if it wasn't for the "cradles" coming over to this country and working hard to establish the faith then their wouldn't be a Church here for the converts to join in the first place.

God bless the cradles!!!
Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert

Offline synLeszka

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #84 on: May 03, 2011, 04:40:59 PM »
Chrystus zmartwychwstał!
I am sorry but my mother and grandmothers are not intelligent internet blogger Catholics, who were given by God the right to anathemise and insult bishops. They cannot read Latin nor speak any other languages, they are not college graduates but they feed me and have passed the faith onto me.  I do not view them as ignorant. They taught me how to pray the Holy Rosary; how to make the sign of the cross; they forced me to go to church when I did not want to; force me to work when I want to sit idle. I thought that someone was going to say this. I laughed at that idea, when I heard them singing the litany to Our Lady, downstairs, yes out of tune, in old women chant but every prayer is beautiful. How often do you people sing at home to the Virgin Mary? I don't remember a day when I do not hear my grandmother singing hymns or praying the Rosary at home.  
    
I don't feel any regrets that I listen to my elders.

As an aside:
Galicyja was a grand country, a country that will never return. All we can have is sweet memories and the weird Austro-Hungarian dialect of Polish. My family was from Western Galicyja not Eastern. There was never Rusin settlement in Mielec.
 
Galicja in 1910 was 58% Polish and 40% Ukrainian
Ah, so you are from the Polish peasantry of Halych. Explains a lot. A lot indeed.

Mielec was in the Subcarpathian Voivodship.
Yes, we are dark, ignorant, uneducated, and over religious. That is typical for the inhabitants of the banks of the Wisłoka of the Tarnów and Rzeszów regions.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #85 on: May 03, 2011, 04:45:43 PM »
Chrystus zmartwychwstał!

Ah, so you are from the Polish peasantry of Halych. Explains a lot. A lot indeed.

Mielec was in the Subcarpathian Voivodship.
Yes, we are dark, ignorant, uneducated, and over religious. That is typical for the inhabitants of the banks of the Wisłoka of the Tarnów and Rzeszów regions.
Being ignorant or uneducated isn't an issue, but being dark from being over religious in the wrong religion is a different matter.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Jetavan

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #86 on: May 03, 2011, 05:16:17 PM »
Chrystus zmartwychwstał!
I am sorry but my mother and grandmothers are not intelligent internet blogger Catholics, who were given by God the right to anathemise and insult bishops. They cannot read Latin nor speak any other languages, they are not college graduates but they feed me and have passed the faith onto me.  I do not view them as ignorant. They taught me how to pray the Holy Rosary; how to make the sign of the cross; they forced me to go to church when I did not want to; force me to work when I want to sit idle. I thought that someone was going to say this. I laughed at that idea, when I heard them singing the litany to Our Lady, downstairs, yes out of tune, in old women chant but every prayer is beautiful. How often do you people sing at home to the Virgin Mary? I don't remember a day when I do not hear my grandmother singing hymns or praying the Rosary at home.  
    
I don't feel any regrets that I listen to my elders.

As an aside:
Galicyja was a grand country, a country that will never return. All we can have is sweet memories and the weird Austro-Hungarian dialect of Polish. My family was from Western Galicyja not Eastern. There was never Rusin settlement in Mielec.
 
Galicja in 1910 was 58% Polish and 40% Ukrainian
Ah, so you are from the Polish peasantry of Halych. Explains a lot. A lot indeed.

Mielec was in the Subcarpathian Voivodship.
Yes, we are dark, ignorant, uneducated, and over religious. That is typical for the inhabitants of the banks of the Wisłoka of the Tarnów and Rzeszów regions.
Just curious: What do you mean by "dark"?
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #87 on: May 03, 2011, 05:29:06 PM »
Chrystus zmartwychwstał!
I am sorry but my mother and grandmothers are not intelligent internet blogger Catholics, who were given by God the right to anathemise and insult bishops. They cannot read Latin nor speak any other languages, they are not college graduates but they feed me and have passed the faith onto me.  I do not view them as ignorant. They taught me how to pray the Holy Rosary; how to make the sign of the cross; they forced me to go to church when I did not want to; force me to work when I want to sit idle. I thought that someone was going to say this. I laughed at that idea, when I heard them singing the litany to Our Lady, downstairs, yes out of tune, in old women chant but every prayer is beautiful. How often do you people sing at home to the Virgin Mary? I don't remember a day when I do not hear my grandmother singing hymns or praying the Rosary at home.  
    
I don't feel any regrets that I listen to my elders.

As an aside:
Galicyja was a grand country, a country that will never return. All we can have is sweet memories and the weird Austro-Hungarian dialect of Polish. My family was from Western Galicyja not Eastern. There was never Rusin settlement in Mielec.
 
Galicja in 1910 was 58% Polish and 40% Ukrainian
Ah, so you are from the Polish peasantry of Halych. Explains a lot. A lot indeed.

Mielec was in the Subcarpathian Voivodship.
Yes, we are dark, ignorant, uneducated, and over religious. That is typical for the inhabitants of the banks of the Wisłoka of the Tarnów and Rzeszów regions.
Just curious: What do you mean by "dark"?
I can answer, but it might be misconstrued as "political."
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Peter J

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #88 on: May 03, 2011, 06:40:47 PM »
It doesn't matter with Izzy. If we Catholics don't use the restroom exactly the way Izzy thinks we should, he starts crying, "heresy! heresy!"
Once a Lutheran, always a Lutheran I suppose.
I suppose that, Papist, those grasping after straws, will eventually turn to chaff, as here.  Tell us, papist, pray tell, of this alleged Lutheran heresy you claim.

That would have been a good post, if you had stopped right there.
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline Peter J

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Re: Vatican sees no future for married clergy in Anglican Ordinariate
« Reply #89 on: May 03, 2011, 06:42:05 PM »
I don't want to lump them together by any means. I'm just saying that we shouldn't be overly optimistic about the typical Catholic.
The problem with the "typical Catholic" is that the typical Catholic is often a cradle Catholic, and many times (but not always) they tend to be very lukewarm when it comes to the faith. I do know some lifelong Catholics who are rather zealous about their faith (especially the little old ladies that never miss Mass and go to confession every week), but for the most part it seems that the adult converts are the most passionate about Catholicism.

This sounds like typical convert rhetoric which seeks to bash anyone whose a cradle as "lukewarm" and "irreligious".  Lets not forget that, if it wasn't for the "cradles" coming over to this country and working hard to establish the faith then their wouldn't be a Church here for the converts to join in the first place.

God bless the cradles!!!

Hear hear!
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)