OrthodoxChristianity.net
November 23, 2014, 12:15:41 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: beatification  (Read 1027 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
henrikhankhagnell
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Coptic Orthodox or Roman-Catholic in my heart but I have not convertet yet...
Posts: 203


WWW
« on: April 29, 2011, 09:37:23 AM »

What are the differences between an oriental or eastern orthodox beatification and a catholic beatification? 
Logged

searching for the church that is both catholic and orthodox...
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Warned
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 14,365


fleem
WWW
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2011, 09:58:08 AM »

I am not sure about the Orthodox process, but I believe that in the RCC process, they must be able to show that at least one incident of a miraculous cure (or other miracle) was attributed to the person's intercessions.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 09:58:34 AM by biro » Logged

Charlie Rose: "If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?"

Fran Lebowitz: "Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisified."

spcasuncoast.org
88Devin12
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 4,928



« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2011, 10:10:32 AM »

The Orthodox process is extremely informal.

After a person's death (if they are holy) a "cult" forms around that person, and individuals begin venerating them and begin seeking their intercession. Icons are commissioned (for private use) and often miracles will follow the person's death.
Eventually, the Bishops of the local Church will meet together and discuss the person's life and then (if the Holy Spirit wills) the person will officially be recognized. The hymns for their feast day (usually the day of their death) are written, and their body is exhumed and brought to the Church. A service is done, and it begins with prayers for the person's soul, and mid-way through the service, the prayers change to seeking their intercession. People then venerate the relics. After this point, sometimes the local Church will then send out the news to other Churches (Like Russia/Greece/Romania, etc...) who will often voice their approval in return.
Basically the "official recognition" in the Orthodox Church is nothing more than the Church officially recognition what God already recognizes. We don't "make" a Saint, nor is it really "beatification". It's simply the Church officially recognizing an already existing Saint.
Logged
ignatius
Baptacathadox
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic > Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 1,690


My Son Aidan... :-)


« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2011, 01:03:48 PM »

The Orthodox process is extremely informal.

After a person's death (if they are holy) a "cult" forms around that person, and individuals begin venerating them and begin seeking their intercession. Icons are commissioned (for private use) and often miracles will follow the person's death.
Eventually, the Bishops of the local Church will meet together and discuss the person's life and then (if the Holy Spirit wills) the person will officially be recognized. The hymns for their feast day (usually the day of their death) are written, and their body is exhumed and brought to the Church. A service is done, and it begins with prayers for the person's soul, and mid-way through the service, the prayers change to seeking their intercession. People then venerate the relics. After this point, sometimes the local Church will then send out the news to other Churches (Like Russia/Greece/Romania, etc...) who will often voice their approval in return.
Basically the "official recognition" in the Orthodox Church is nothing more than the Church officially recognition what God already recognizes. We don't "make" a Saint, nor is it really "beatification". It's simply the Church officially recognizing an already existing Saint.

I like this...
Logged

St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,470


« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2011, 01:14:34 PM »

In the Orthodox Church there is  only one step - canonisation. In the RC one - two steps: beatification (local cult) and canonisation (the global one).
Logged
88Devin12
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 4,928



« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2011, 01:56:47 PM »

To give a couple recent examples... Currently there are cults around the world that have been formed around Fr. Seraphim Rose & Elder Paisios of the Holy Mountain. People pray to them for their intercession, and icons of them are being painted for private devotion:

Icon of Fr. Seraphim Rose:
http://orthodoxincense.com/images/Icons/SeraphimRoseSlavonic.jpg
It is interesting to note that icons of Fr. Seraphim have actually made it into some Churches.

Icon of Elder Paisios:
http://orthodoxword.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/icon_of_elder_paisios.jpg

I've also seen an icon on the internet of the Newmartyr Fr. Daniil Syosev and of the Newmartyr Evgeny.
(since the Orthodox method is so informal, it isn't incorrect to refer to them as Newmartyrs or Saints before their official recognition)

For more on the Orthodox "process" of canonization:

http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/postcards/sainthood
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 01:57:37 PM by 88Devin12 » Logged
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,470


« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2011, 01:58:02 PM »

Saint Eugene (Rodionov) is already canonised.
Logged
88Devin12
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 4,928



« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2011, 02:13:26 PM »

Saint Eugene (Rodionov) is already canonised.
Ah ok...
Logged
Michał
['mi:hɑʊ]
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic (again!)
Jurisdiction: the Latin Church
Posts: 824


"Mother of God, Virgin, by God glorified Mary..."


« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2011, 02:49:25 PM »

In more recent times the title "blessed" has been sometimes informally attributed to those Orthodox Christians who haven't been glorified yet but are locally venerated (probably a RC influence), e.g.: http://blogalpha.pjpeter.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/seraphim-rose-icon.jpg. But traditionally it was always given to fools-for-Christ (cf. http://orthodoxwiki.org/Fool-for-Christ).
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 02:51:03 PM by Michał » Logged
elijahmaria
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 6,473



WWW
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2011, 03:33:36 PM »

In the Orthodox Church there is  only one step - canonisation. In the RC one - two steps: beatification (local cult) and canonisation (the global one).

Not really.  If a saint is recognized in a local cultus in the papal Catholic Church then he or she cannot be canonized universally...sad but true.  That is why people are willing to wait so long through the process of the universal Church rather than making the person in question a local saint.
Logged

Michał
['mi:hɑʊ]
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic (again!)
Jurisdiction: the Latin Church
Posts: 824


"Mother of God, Virgin, by God glorified Mary..."


« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2011, 03:40:43 PM »

If a saint is recognized in a local cultus in the papal Catholic Church then he or she cannot be canonized universally...sad but true.

What do you mean by "local cultus" here? A situation when someone not yet canonised, nor beatified, is made a "saint" by people, in a grass-roots manner?
Logged
elijahmaria
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 6,473



WWW
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2011, 03:54:48 PM »

If a saint is recognized in a local cultus in the papal Catholic Church then he or she cannot be canonized universally...sad but true.

What do you mean by "local cultus" here? A situation when someone not yet canonised, nor beatified, is made a "saint" by people, in a grass-roots manner?

Yes.  With the blessing of a bishop within a diocese, thereby entirely by-passing the universal process for a declaration of universal sanctity.

PS: This is entirely a diocesan affair.  I don't know what happens if a person's life over-laps more than one diocese...In that case, I expect there would be several bishops involved.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 03:56:18 PM by elijahmaria » Logged

Apotheoun
"Three realities pertain to God: essence, energy, and the triad of divine hypostaseis." St. Gregory Palamas
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Melkite Catholic
Posts: 1,389


St. John Maximovitch


WWW
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2011, 04:12:33 PM »

Beatification allows for official liturgical commemoration in a particular territory, e.g., the upcoming beatification of John Paul II will mean that he can be publicly venerated in Poland and the Diocese of Rome. 

Here is the decree concerning John Paul II:



Decree Concerning the Liturgical Cult of Blessed John Paul II

DECREE

The beatification of the Venerable John Paul II, of happy memory, that will take place May 1, 2011 at the Basilica of St. Peter in Rome, presided over by the Holy Father Benedict XVI, has a mark of exceptionality, recognized by the entire Catholic Church throughout the world.  As we await this extraordinary event, following the numerous requests concerning the liturgical cult of the new Blessed, according to the places and modes established by law, this Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of Sacraments takes care to communicate what has been arranged in this regard.

Mass of Thanksgiving

It has been decided that throughout the year successive to the beatification of John Paul II, that is, up to May 1 2012, it will be possible to celebrate a Mass of Thanksgiving to God in significant places and days. The responsibility of establishing the day or days, as well as the place or places, for the gathering of the People of God will be up to the diocesan bishop for his diocese. Considering local needs and pastoral convenience, it will also be allowed to celebrate a holy Mass in honor of the new Blessed on a Sunday during the year as, moreover, on a day between Nos. 10-13 of the Table of liturgical days-

In the same manner, it is up to the Superior General of religious families to offer indications about the significant days and places for the entire religious family.

As to the holy Mass, with the possibility of singing the Gloria, the collect in honor of the Blessed (see below) will be prayed. The other prayers, the preface, the antiphons and the Bible readings are drawn from the Common of Pastors, for a Pope. If a Sunday during the year recurs, for the Bible readings texts adapted from the Common of Pastors may be chosen for the first reading, with the relative responsorial psalm, and for the Gospel.

Inscription of the new Blessed into particular calendars

It has been decided that the celebration of Blessed John Paul II, Pope, will be celebrated every year on October 22 as a memorial in the calendar proper to the diocese of Rome and the dioceses of Poland

As to the liturgical texts, the collect oration and the second reading of the Office of Readings, with the relative responsorial (see below), are permitted as proper. The other texts will be drawn from the Common of Pastors, for a Pope.

As to other proper calendars, the request to inscribe the optional memorial of Blessed John Paul II can be presented to this Congregation by the Conference of Bishops for their territory, by the diocesan bishop for his diocese, by a Superior General for his/her religious family,

The dedication of a Church to God in honor of the new Blessed

The choice of Blessed John Paul II as the name of a church calls for the indult of the Apostolic See (cfr. Ordo dedicationis ecclesiae, Praenotanda n. 4), except when his celebration is already inscribed in the particular calendar: in this case, the indult is not called for and to the Blessed – in the church with his name – is reserved the level of feast (cfr. Congregatio de Cultu Divino et Disciplina Sacramentorum, Notificatio de cultu Beatorum, 21 May 1999, n. 9).

Notwithstanding anything to the contrary.

From the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of Sacraments, April 2, 2011

Antonius Card. Cañizares Llovera Praefectus
Iosephus Augustinus Di Noia, op Archiepiscopus a Secretis


Source:  EWTN
Logged

"All that the Father has belongs likewise to the Son, except Causality."
St. Gregory Nazianzen

"We should believe that divine grace is present in the icon of Christ and that it communicates sanctification to those who draw near with faith."
St. Theodore Studite
Michał
['mi:hɑʊ]
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic (again!)
Jurisdiction: the Latin Church
Posts: 824


"Mother of God, Virgin, by God glorified Mary..."


« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2011, 04:36:37 PM »

If a saint is recognized in a local cultus in the papal Catholic Church then he or she cannot be canonized universally...sad but true.

What do you mean by "local cultus" here? A situation when someone not yet canonised, nor beatified, is made a "saint" by people, in a grass-roots manner?

Yes.  With the blessing of a bishop within a diocese, thereby entirely by-passing the universal process for a declaration of universal sanctity.

Interesting. Is some kind of investigation done prior to the episcopal blessing? What title does such a person get and what kind of his/her veneration is allowed (for example, is he/she included in the diocesan Church calendar and commemorated liturgically, are there churches or chapels dedicated to him/her, etc.)? Can you give any examples of such persons? Does this type of local cultus definitely---once and for all---close the way for a universal beatification and canonization? If yes -- why?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 05:00:53 PM by Michał » Logged
elijahmaria
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 6,473



WWW
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2011, 05:42:44 PM »

If a saint is recognized in a local cultus in the papal Catholic Church then he or she cannot be canonized universally...sad but true.

What do you mean by "local cultus" here? A situation when someone not yet canonised, nor beatified, is made a "saint" by people, in a grass-roots manner?

Yes.  With the blessing of a bishop within a diocese, thereby entirely by-passing the universal process for a declaration of universal sanctity.

Interesting. Is some kind of investigation done prior to the episcopal blessing? What title does such a person get and what kind of his/her veneration is allowed (for example, is he/she included in the diocesan Church calendar and commemorated liturgically, are there churches or chapels dedicated to him/her, etc.)? Can you give any examples of such persons? Does this type of local cultus definitely---once and for all---close the way for a universal beatification and canonization? If yes -- why?

You are asking wonderful questions that are beyond me.  I'd have to do some research. It seems to me from dim memory that they are saints and called saints and that there have been churches or chapels dedicated to such local personages. I don't know how they are included in the liturgical life of the Church specifically...but I do know that there are separate propers for all discalced Carmelite saints for example that are not used in the universal liturgics, so I would imagine it would be something similar.   But I cannot offer an example without doing some asking or some research.  As far as I can remember, as well, the path is closed to universal canonization once a person has been recognized as a saint locally.  Is that hard and fast?....I don't really know. 

I am hoping someone sees this who knows more than I do on the subject and I will begin to ask and look to see what I can find.  I have friends who are historians who will know something or know where I can begin to seek more information for us.

M.
Logged

Michał
['mi:hɑʊ]
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic (again!)
Jurisdiction: the Latin Church
Posts: 824


"Mother of God, Virgin, by God glorified Mary..."


« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2011, 06:29:46 PM »

You are asking wonderful questions that are beyond me.  I'd have to do some research.

Please, let me know if you find something. Smiley
Logged
elijahmaria
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 6,473



WWW
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2011, 06:46:20 PM »

You are asking wonderful questions that are beyond me.  I'd have to do some research.

Please, let me know if you find something. Smiley

I will do that indeed!
Logged

Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Posts: 30,179


that is not the teaching of...


« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2011, 06:48:53 PM »

In the Orthodox Church there is  only one step - canonisation. In the RC one - two steps: beatification (local cult) and canonisation (the global one).

It is my understanding that my patron saint, Justin Popovich, was approved for "local veneration" years before being officially glorified.
Logged
Wyatt
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Posts: 2,395


« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2011, 12:32:14 PM »

We don't "make" a Saint, nor is it really "beatification". It's simply the Church officially recognizing an already existing Saint.
Just to be clear (and I am not saying that you are saying this, but just wanted to clarify in case anyone misunderstood), the RCC does not believe or teach that it "makes" Saints when they are canonized. We, too, believe it is just the Church formally acknowledging something that God has already accomplished.
Logged
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.087 seconds with 46 queries.