Topic: Are you watching the wedding of William Windsor and Catherine Middleton?

[Tallitot]

Are you watching the wedding of William Windsor and Catherine Middleton?

[IsmiLiora]

No, but I will look for her dress as soon as I wake up! That's the only part that I'm really interested in.

[Irish Hermit]

I see that they expect 2 billion to be watching.  

Down here two TV channels will broadcast the whole event for 6 hours, but I imagine we have more interest because one day they will be our King and Queen.

Through the prayers of his great grandmother, Lord, bring Prince William into the holy Orthodox faith. May England have an Orthodox monarchy once again. Amen

[trifon]

I'm living in London, though I prefer to watch the Royal Wedding on television as most of the major networks such as BBC, SkyNews, and ITV will be broadcasting live, and I don't have to get up at 3am or so to watch .  I could stroll down to Westminster Abbey, but with the crowds being as they are, probably wouldn't get too far!  There's also outdoor screens set up at Hyde Park and Green Park I believe.

Here's a link that outlines the 'Royal route': http://www.royalparks.gov.uk/royalweddingmap.aspx

[88Devin12]

I was pleased to see that there are two Orthodox icons in Westminster. Apparently these have been there for a while and were painted by Sergei Fyodorov.

I read that Prince Philip still makes the Orthodox sign of the cross, and so I'll be interested to see if he does here. I wonder if he actually really embraced the Anglican faith, or simply did because he had to marry the Queen. (I hope his heart is still with Orthodoxy)

[augustin717]

I was pleased to see that there are two Orthodox icons in Westminster. Apparently these have been there for a while and were painted by Sergei Fyodorov.

I read that Prince Philip still makes the Orthodox sign of the cross, and so I'll be interested to see if he does here. I wonder if he actually really embraced the Anglican faith, or simply did because he had to marry the Queen. (I hope his heart is still with Orthodoxy)

as if it actually made one damned difference...

[genesisone]

I was pleased to see that there are two Orthodox icons in Westminster. Apparently these have been there for a while and were painted by Sergei Fyodorov.

Thank you for that additional information. I, too, was pleased to see them.

I read that Prince Philip still makes the Orthodox sign of the cross, and so I'll be interested to see if he does here. I wonder if he actually really embraced the Anglican faith, or simply did because he had to marry the Queen. (I hope his heart is still with Orthodoxy)

Philip was not required by law to become Anglican in order to marry the then Princess Elizabeth. It was necessary only that he not be Roman Catholic. If you know otherwise, please let me know. I have never been able to track down any official documentation that he did indeed become Anglican, though it is clear that he communes as such. Also, I have never had any convincing evidence presented to me that he renounced his claims to Greek (and Danish) titles, and it is interesting that one of the Prince of Wales' godparents was Prince George of Greece and Denmark, the brother of Prince Philip's father.

In answer to the question posed in the title of this thread - yes, of course I'm watching this event. I am interested in the life of the young man who will likely be King of Canada some day. It's all part of the continuity and stability that the monarchy has brought to this country and other realms.

[trifon]

I was pleased to see that there are two Orthodox icons in Westminster. Apparently these have been there for a while and were painted by Sergei Fyodorov.

I read that Prince Philip still makes the Orthodox sign of the cross, and so I'll be interested to see if he does here. I wonder if he actually really embraced the Anglican faith, or simply did because he had to marry the Queen. (I hope his heart is still with Orthodoxy)

as if it actually made one damned difference...

There's also similar icons in St. Paul's Cathedral, but with entrance fees to both St. Paul's and Westminster Abbey at around £15 per person (which I think is something like $25 USD), I won't be making repeat visits.  Can't say much about Prince Philip, though I've heard, like genesisone pointed out, that he communes in Anglicanism, meaning that I would tend to agree with augustin717

[88Devin12]

I was pleased to see that there are two Orthodox icons in Westminster. Apparently these have been there for a while and were painted by Sergei Fyodorov.

I read that Prince Philip still makes the Orthodox sign of the cross, and so I'll be interested to see if he does here. I wonder if he actually really embraced the Anglican faith, or simply did because he had to marry the Queen. (I hope his heart is still with Orthodoxy)

as if it actually made one damned difference...

There's also similar icons in St. Paul's Cathedral, but with entrance fees to both St. Paul's and Westminster Abbey at around £15 per person (which I think is something like $25 USD), I won't be making repeat visits.  Can't say much about Prince Philip, though I've heard, like genesisone pointed out, that he communes in Anglicanism, meaning that I would tend to agree with augustin717

The point being? Just because he communes as an Anglican doesn't mean that Orthodoxy still isn't in his heart. Of course he isn't Orthodox and of course he can't commune in an Orthodox Church.
As Orthodox we don't believe that salvation can only be found in our Church. The people that treat it as such are teaching something that is heterodox; and no, I don't care if there are some saints that teach it, God forgive me, but they are wrong... salvation is up to God, not to man and not to membership in a specific Church. We know salvation is in our Church, we cannot ever say that salvation cannot be outside the Church.

The simple fact remains is that even if he left Orthodoxy, I have no doubt that it still effects his life and that the Holy Spirit still works in/with him.

My parents aren't members of the Orthodox Church, but I have no doubt that the Holy Spirit has been working in them. My father often prays the Jesus Prayer...
For Prince Philip, and indeed Prince Charles, though they aren't Orthodox, they still visit Mount Athos, and both have shown high regard for the Orthodox faith and Orthodox Christian countries. Prince Charles also has an icon corner in his residence. I have no doubt that Orthodoxy effects them.

[88Devin12]

Now while I'm not familiar with Western Vestments, some of those vestments worn by the clergy seem very Eastern. (save for the hats)
I also noticed in an interview that one of the Priests was wearing a black cassock which surprised me. I guess I don't know much about the Anglican faith.

[trifon]

I was pleased to see that there are two Orthodox icons in Westminster. Apparently these have been there for a while and were painted by Sergei Fyodorov.

I read that Prince Philip still makes the Orthodox sign of the cross, and so I'll be interested to see if he does here. I wonder if he actually really embraced the Anglican faith, or simply did because he had to marry the Queen. (I hope his heart is still with Orthodoxy)

as if it actually made one damned difference...

There's also similar icons in St. Paul's Cathedral, but with entrance fees to both St. Paul's and Westminster Abbey at around £15 per person (which I think is something like $25 USD), I won't be making repeat visits.  Can't say much about Prince Philip, though I've heard, like genesisone pointed out, that he communes in Anglicanism, meaning that I would tend to agree with augustin717

The point being? Just because he communes as an Anglican doesn't mean that Orthodoxy still isn't in his heart. Of course he isn't Orthodox and of course he can't commune in an Orthodox Church.
As Orthodox we don't believe that salvation can only be found in our Church. The people that treat it as such are teaching something that is heterodox; and no, I don't care if there are some saints that teach it, God forgive me, but they are wrong... salvation is up to God, not to man and not to membership in a specific Church. We know salvation is in our Church, we cannot ever say that salvation cannot be outside the Church.

The simple fact remains is that even if he left Orthodoxy, I have no doubt that it still effects his life and that the Holy Spirit still works in/with him.

My parents aren't members of the Orthodox Church, but I have no doubt that the Holy Spirit has been working in them. My father often prays the Jesus Prayer...
For Prince Philip, and indeed Prince Charles, though they aren't Orthodox, they still visit Mount Athos, and both have shown high regard for the Orthodox faith and Orthodox Christian countries. Prince Charles also has an icon corner in his residence. I have no doubt that Orthodoxy effects them.

Fair enough.  I said that I 'tend' to agree because yes, I don't know what is in the Prince's heart, nor the extent of Orthodoxy's influence on his life.  I'm just curious how if the law stipulated only that he not be Roman Catholic, that the Prince would feel the need to commune in Anglicanism, or even that he even converted at all.  I don't know.  Pressure of some sort perhaps? A sincere belief in Anglicanism?  I can't say.

My parents aren't Orthodox either, but I see your point. 

[88Devin12]

I just spotted an Orthodox Bishop amidst the crowd. I noticed he wasn't singing with everyone else...

Apparently it is/was Archbishop Gregorios of Thyateira.

I find it interesting that as "opposed" as they are supposed to be to the Roman Catholics, at how many Roman Catholic bishops were invited.

Also, there were a few points where I felt like vomiting because of the somewhat poor representation of marriage that they were giving (even the Anglican Bishops). At least it's a better representation than much of the world, but it's still weak.

[Asteriktos]

Didn't watch any of it, though I scrolled through some pics online. I didn't realise Kate was so thin... hope she eats a bit on the honeymoon before she disappears entirely 

[Entscheidungsproblem]

I'm just curious how if the law stipulated only that he not be Roman Catholic, that the Prince would feel the need to commune in Anglicanism, or even that he even converted at all.  I don't know.  Pressure of some sort perhaps? A sincere belief in Anglicanism?  I can't say.

Probably wished to appear more British as well.  That was also the reason he took the surname of his maternal grandparents.  There have been Orthodox members who married into the British royal family and retained their faith allegiances, so converting was not due to any succession law (as genesisone said).

[genesisone]

The point being? Just because he communes as an Anglican doesn't mean that Orthodoxy still isn't in his heart. Of course he isn't Orthodox and of course he can't commune in an Orthodox Church.
As Orthodox we don't believe that salvation can only be found in our Church. The people that treat it as such are teaching something that is heterodox; and no, I don't care if there are some saints that teach it, God forgive me, but they are wrong... salvation is up to God, not to man and not to membership in a specific Church. We know salvation is in our Church, we cannot ever say that salvation cannot be outside the Church.

The simple fact remains is that even if he left Orthodoxy, I have no doubt that it still effects his life and that the Holy Spirit still works in/with him.

My parents aren't members of the Orthodox Church, but I have no doubt that the Holy Spirit has been working in them. My father often prays the Jesus Prayer...
For Prince Philip, and indeed Prince Charles, though they aren't Orthodox, they still visit Mount Athos, and both have shown high regard for the Orthodox faith and Orthodox Christian countries. Prince Charles also has an icon corner in his residence. I have no doubt that Orthodoxy effects them.

No arguments from me on any of these points.

Did anyone else notice that this wedding on a Friday has taken place during a fast-free week? It's almost enough to make one wonder if the Prince of Wales said something like, "If you're going to be married on a Friday, here's the date you'll need." 

It certainly has made it easy for me to enjoy a very Canadian breakfast of peameal bacon on an English muffin. (English muffins are no more English than French fries are French.)

[Entscheidungsproblem]

Did anyone else notice that this wedding on a Friday has taken place during a fast-free week? It's almost enough to make one wonder if the Prince of Wales said something like, "If you're going to be married on a Friday, here's the date you'll need." 

William and Kate wanted to marry on a Friday in spring and 29 April was chosen because it fell after Easter and Lent and before a busy political programme in May and June.

Source

[genesisone]

Fair enough.  I said that I 'tend' to agree because yes, I don't know what is in the Prince's heart, nor the extent of Orthodoxy's influence on his life.  I'm just curious how if the law stipulated only that he not be Roman Catholic, that the Prince would feel the need to commune in Anglicanism, or even that he even converted at all.  I don't know.  Pressure of some sort perhaps? A sincere belief in Anglicanism?  I can't say.

In 1947 it was very important to be very British, very patriotic. Undoubtedly there was plenty of social pressure for Prince Philip to appear as such. Apparently the fact that he had shown exemplary service in the Royal Navy during WWII was not sufficient.

[genesisone]

Did anyone else notice that this wedding on a Friday has taken place during a fast-free week? It's almost enough to make one wonder if the Prince of Wales said something like, "If you're going to be married on a Friday, here's the date you'll need." 

William and Kate wanted to marry on a Friday in spring and 29 April was chosen because it fell after Easter and Lent and before a busy political programme in May and June.

Source

But did you read a bit further in the same article:

"The timing of the wedding is entirely a matter for the Royal Family. People are perfectly capable of seeing the difference... a day of celebration and a referendum and local election campaign," he (Mr Cameron) said.(emphasis mine)

[genesisone]

A slight error in the original question has just occurred to me: HRH the Duke of Cambridge has usually called himself "William Wales" (not Windsor).

[Marc1152]

Kate:
 
 "Oh William, I want a really BIG wedding."

[augustin717]

The point being? Just because he communes as an Anglican doesn't mean that Orthodoxy still isn't in his heart. Of course he isn't Orthodox and of course he can't commune in an Orthodox Church.
As Orthodox we don't believe that salvation can only be found in our Church. The people that treat it as such are teaching something that is heterodox; and no, I don't care if there are some saints that teach it, God forgive me, but they are wrong... salvation is up to God, not to man and not to membership in a specific Church. We know salvation is in our Church, we cannot ever say that salvation cannot be outside the Church.

The simple fact remains is that even if he left Orthodoxy, I have no doubt that it still effects his life and that the Holy Spirit still works in/with him.

My parents aren't members of the Orthodox Church, but I have no doubt that the Holy Spirit has been working in them. My father often prays the Jesus Prayer...
For Prince Philip, and indeed Prince Charles, though they aren't Orthodox, they still visit Mount Athos, and both have shown high regard for the Orthodox faith and Orthodox Christian countries. Prince Charles also has an icon corner in his residence. I have no doubt that Orthodoxy effects them.

No arguments from me on any of these points.

Did anyone else notice that this wedding on a Friday has taken place during a fast-free week? It's almost enough to make one wonder if the Prince of Wales said something like, "If you're going to be married on a Friday, here's the date you'll need." 

It certainly has made it easy for me to enjoy a very Canadian breakfast of peameal bacon on an English muffin. (English muffins are no more English than French fries are French.)

Actually, in the OC wedding are still forbidden this week, the Bright Week/Easter Octave.

[henrikhankhagnell]

no, but I love British English so maybe I should watch some vide clip from the wedding but today I have more problem than a bloody wedding on TV.

[genesisone]

Did anyone else notice that this wedding on a Friday has taken place during a fast-free week? It's almost enough to make one wonder if the Prince of Wales said something like, "If you're going to be married on a Friday, here's the date you'll need." 

Actually, in the OC wedding are still forbidden this week, the Bright Week/Easter Octave.

So maybe that's why they had to have an Anglican wedding - and still serve whatever they like at the reception  .

[biro]

Too bad Prince Philip had to give up being Orthodox and become Anglican to get married. If only it had been the other way around!     If the Queen had become Orthodox, everything would be just fine.   

[Pravoslavbob]

I was pleased to see that there are two Orthodox icons in Westminster. Apparently these have been there for a while and were painted by Sergei Fyodorov.

I read that Prince Philip still makes the Orthodox sign of the cross, and so I'll be interested to see if he does here. I wonder if he actually really embraced the Anglican faith, or simply did because he had to marry the Queen. (I hope his heart is still with Orthodoxy)

as if it actually made one damned difference...

There's also similar icons in St. Paul's Cathedral, but with entrance fees to both St. Paul's and Westminster Abbey at around £15 per person (which I think is something like $25 USD), I won't be making repeat visits.  Can't say much about Prince Philip, though I've heard, like genesisone pointed out, that he communes in Anglicanism, meaning that I would tend to agree with augustin717

The point being? Just because he communes as an Anglican doesn't mean that Orthodoxy still isn't in his heart. Of course he isn't Orthodox and of course he can't commune in an Orthodox Church.
As Orthodox we don't believe that salvation can only be found in our Church. The people that treat it as such are teaching something that is heterodox; and no, I don't care if there are some saints that teach it, God forgive me, but they are wrong... salvation is up to God, not to man and not to membership in a specific Church. We know salvation is in our Church, we cannot ever say that salvation cannot be outside the Church.

The simple fact remains is that even if he left Orthodoxy, I have no doubt that it still effects his life and that the Holy Spirit still works in/with him.

My parents aren't members of the Orthodox Church, but I have no doubt that the Holy Spirit has been working in them. My father often prays the Jesus Prayer..


.
For Prince Philip, and indeed Prince Charles, though they aren't Orthodox, they still visit Mount Athos, and both have shown high regard for the Orthodox faith and Orthodox Christian countries. Prince Charles also has an icon corner in his residence. I have no doubt that Orthodoxy effects them.

Please see my reply to this post in a new thread on Salvation in Faith Topics.  All discussion on this issue should be directed here: 

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,35688.new.html

[Pravoslavbob]

Are you watching the wedding of William Windsor and Catherine Middleton?

In this country, it`s pretty difficult to not see any of the wedding, unless you stay away from all televisions today, and I would dare say, for a good deal of the weekend as well.   

[Tallitot]

Did anyone else notice that this wedding on a Friday has taken place during a fast-free week? It's almost enough to make one wonder if the Prince of Wales said something like, "If you're going to be married on a Friday, here's the date you'll need." 

Actually, in the OC wedding are still forbidden this week, the Bright Week/Easter Octave.

So maybe that's why they had to have an Anglican wedding - and still serve whatever they like at the reception  .

In the Anglican tradition weddings aren't celbrated during Lent, Advent, Holy Week or on certain feast days. This was probably the earliest they could have the wedding.

[Irish Hermit]

The Royal Family is acquainted with Orthodoxy, since European royalty is a close-knit affair.  At the time of the Colonels' coup in Greece in the 1960s Princess Alice, Prince Philip's mother, left Greece and went to live at Buckingham Palace.  She was already a nun and Queen Elizabeth arranged for a room at Buckingham Palace to be turned into an Orthodox Church for her.  

It was her request to be buried near to her aunt, Saint Elizabeth the New Martyr, in the monastery in Jerusalem, Saint Mary Magdalene in Gethsemane, and the British Royal Family fulfilled her desire.

[Keble]

I watched it because I had to be up that early anyway. It was an excellent example of a decently-and-in-order Anglican service.

[IsmiLiora]

Her dress was SO GORGEOUS. I wanted the same type of sleeves for my wedding dress! Hmph.

[Tallitot]

Her dress was SO GORGEOUS. I wanted the same type of sleeves for my wedding dress! Hmph.

Just please don't wear Beatrice's hat

[celticfan1888]

Are you watching the wedding of William Windsor and Catherine Middleton?

That's His Royal Highness Prince William Arthur Philip Louis, Duke of Cambridge, Earl of Strathearn, Baron Carrickfergus, Royal Knight Companion of the Most Noble Order of the Garter, Master of Arts & Her Royal Highness Princess William Arthur Philip Louis, Duchess of Cambridge, Countess of Strathearn, Baroness Carrickfergus to you, please stop direspecting royalty.

[orthonorm]

Nah, I think I am going to watch the mold on my shower curtain grow instead.

[ialmisry]

Christ is risen!

I watched it because I had to be up that early anyway. It was an excellent example of a decently-and-in-order Anglican service.

I'll give you that. If only the rest of the communion was like that!  A decent, Orthodox service.

[ialmisry]

Christ is risen!

I'm just curious how if the law stipulated only that he not be Roman Catholic, that the Prince would feel the need to commune in Anglicanism, or even that he even converted at all.  I don't know.  Pressure of some sort perhaps? A sincere belief in Anglicanism?  I can't say.

Probably wished to appear more British as well.  That was also the reason he took the surname of his maternal grandparents.  There have been Orthodox members who married into the British royal family and retained their faith allegiances, so converting was not due to any succession law (as genesisone said).

Yes, since his English mother died as an Orthodox nun and is buried near her aunt St. Elizabeth at St. Mary Magadelen Convent on the Mount of Olives, it is somewhat odd that's the side he gets the appearing more British from.  The law is directed only at communicants of the Vatican: the groom's cousin just married someone in Canada who converted to Anglicanism to preserve his line to the throne.  I think I saw that couple at the wedding.

[ialmisry]

Christ is risen!

I just spotted an Orthodox Bishop amidst the crowd. I noticed he wasn't singing with everyone else...

Apparently it is/was Archbishop Gregorios of Thyateira.

I find it interesting that as "opposed" as they are supposed to be to the Roman Catholics, at how many Roman Catholic bishops were invited.

Also, there were a few points where I felt like vomiting because of the somewhat poor representation of marriage that they were giving (even the Anglican Bishops). At least it's a better representation than much of the world, but it's still weak.

How so?

[genesisone]

Her dress was SO GORGEOUS. I wanted the same type of sleeves for my wedding dress! Hmph.

Just please don't wear Beatrice's hat

Aren't you the one who posted a link to a delightful spoof of the wedding? I thought you wanted a good laugh out of the day  . BTW, HRH Princess Beatrice wasn't the only one wearing a hat I wouldn't want my wife to wear!

[ialmisry]

Christ is risen!

Her dress was SO GORGEOUS. I wanted the same type of sleeves for my wedding dress! Hmph.

Just please don't wear Beatrice's hat

Aren't you the one who posted a link to a delightful spoof of the wedding? I thought you wanted a good laugh out of the day  . BTW, HRH Princess Beatrice wasn't the only one wearing a hat I wouldn't want my wife to wear!

Yes, her sister Eugenie ran a close second. And I rather liked most everyone else's.

[vamrat]

Nope.  My give-a-hoot-ometer is right down well below the legal level.  I watched "How I Met Your Mother" instead.  Not bad.

Though, I did look up some pictures of the Horse Guards.  I do be liking me some ceremonial guards troops every now and again.

[Jetavan]

Thank goodness they did not marry on a Saturday.

Diana and Charles married on 29 July 1981, exactly 29 years and 9 months ago.

[Robb]

I watched it, was a neat ceremony, full of all the pomp and splendor that English people love so dearly.  It always strikes me as odd, even crass how so many Americans (Especially so called conservative types like Bill O Reilly and Glenn Beck) Go about trashing the Royal Wedding as stuck up and "elitist".  Affairs like this have been going on for centuries and the ceremony and circumstances that accompany them are all but fitting (If actually tame) Compared to an event of such magnitude in the life of any nation.

Americans tend to be so "down to Earth" when presented with such things that it defies explanation.  True, this country was founded as a republic in the rejection of monarchy, but does that mean that we have to hold all ceremony and ritual in disgrace and disregard?  It does not suprise me that  A good number of Americans are both fascinated and infatuated with foreign royalty.  Our country has so little ceremony and such disregard for it that the innate desire and inner longing of our citizens just crave some of this, especially in their daily lives.  Our politicians certainly are not anything near royalty (They actually try to go out of their way in distancing themselves from privilege in order to identify with the "common" people).  American society tries to program all its adherents to think like this, but despite all that educating about class equality, the common folk all (Or mostly all) know that their is something special about these people something that no open collared alderman trying to rub elbows with the slack jaws on election day could ever replace.  People just have an instinctive feeling about Monarchy, one which no democracy could ever unlearn from their minds or rip from their hearts.

God save these royals!

[akimori makoto]

Christ is risen!

I watched it because I had to be up that early anyway. It was an excellent example of a decently-and-in-order Anglican service.

I'll give you that. If only the rest of the communion was like that!  A decent, Orthodox service.

I was so pleased.

I've been trying to convince my parents that orthodox Anglicans are doing a pretty decent job at the whole Christianity thing, but in their mind, Anglicanism means lesbian bishops and irreverent liturgy.

The apostle reading was suitably non-superficial and challenging.

[88Devin12]

Christ is risen!

I just spotted an Orthodox Bishop amidst the crowd. I noticed he wasn't singing with everyone else...

Apparently it is/was Archbishop Gregorios of Thyateira.

I find it interesting that as "opposed" as they are supposed to be to the Roman Catholics, at how many Roman Catholic bishops were invited.

Also, there were a few points where I felt like vomiting because of the somewhat poor representation of marriage that they were giving (even the Anglican Bishops). At least it's a better representation than much of the world, but it's still weak.

How so?

They are Kings & Queens of their own marriage is one example. Sure, as Orthodox we do put crowns on the couple's heads, but that is because they are to become martyrs for one another and are dying for each other, not because they are "king & queen" of their marriage.
There was also no mention of God's place in the marriage, that is, they treated it as if it was just him and her.  The treatement of marriage as a legal contract (both secular and religious) is also weak and theologically incorrect...
There were other things as well...
But it was much better than many Protestant marriage services.

[Marc1152]

My wife had friends sleep over and then wake up early to watch.

They wore hats and ate cucumber sandwiches, "Digestives" ( cookies by what i could tell) and something in a can called "Spotted Dick"

Heinz makes it and ..........well............ I have no idea.

Her family is Clan Stewart.

[mabsoota]

88devin12,
about prince phillip being orthodox...
he is the head of britain's free-masons. i think that means he's not orthodox.
ialmisry,
was his mother an orthodox nun? i think i am missing an interesting story here, please do share it!

from a british perspective, i was pleased to be working.
the reason being is that british state-religion hybrid ceremonies leave me with cold feet and bad memories of school. this is partly because there are still a lot of old-fashioned people in the uk who pretend to believe in religion (Christianity or paganism) when they feel like it, and then deny it and worship darwin and karl marx when they feel like it. these people go to church 2 or 3 times a year, tell small but pious young children to shut up in church and to stop enjoying themselves, then they act like they are super special, but then have all sorts of romantic affairs and get regularly drunk watching football (ok, the football is optional).
it was the children of these quasi-religious people who used to bully me terribly at school for actually believing in God. they had given up belief in God together with belief in father Christmas (around age but i shan't start on father Christmas, it's another debate. it's enough to say that if your children see you pretending to believe something you obviously don't (kids are smarter that you think), eventually they will follow you in the pretence ('don't tell mum we've found out about dad being father Christmas') and then leave religion as well.

but my husband was at home, and said the sermon was quite good. and i liked the dress, more modest than most people these days, maybe we'll have a new fashion of modesty! (ok, i can but dream..)