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Author Topic: Assistance with Classical Chinese Translation  (Read 3781 times) Average Rating: 0
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FatherGiryus
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« on: April 27, 2011, 08:52:00 PM »

I am looking for assistance with translating 'Jesus Christ Conquers' into Classical Chinese (rather than Simplified characters) and selection of proper LST Seal Script characters.

If you are or know of a scholar of Chinese calligraphy, PM me.  Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
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FatherGiryus
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« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2011, 10:24:46 AM »


I am looking for assistance with translating 'Jesus Christ Conquers' into Classical Chinese (rather than Simplified characters) and selection of proper LST Seal Script characters.

If you are or know of a scholar of Chinese calligraphy, PM me.  Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

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akimori makoto
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« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2011, 08:19:02 PM »

Father, bless.

My friend suggested 耶穌基督得勝, which I can verify from my limited knowledge of Chinese reads "Jesus Christ gets victory/is victorious" in traditional characters.

My friend also suggested the following characters might be appropriate, but cannot just be substituted in place of 勝, lest the phrase be rendered ungrammatical:

征服 -- to conquer, to vanquish, to prevail
獲勝 -- to be victorious, to triumph, to prevail

The hard part is choosing the right characters, I think. 勝 alone can have the commonplace meaning of "to win", like one would win a game of scrabble, for instance. I personally like 征服.

If you can't find a calligraphist or scholar of Chinese to help out with formulating the characters, getting the seal script for your chosen characters is the easy part. Any of those shops that produce those name stamps Asian people use to sign their names would be able to transcribe the chosen characters in the seal script.

Does any of this help? Are you trying to create a seal for the prosphora?

(posted from my iPhone)
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FatherGiryus
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« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2011, 08:56:26 PM »

God bless you!

Yes, thank you, this is for a bread stamp

I was able to find a resource for the characters http://www.internationalscientific.org/CharacterEtymology.aspx?characterInput=%E8%BB%8A&submitButton1=Etymology

The first character appears to be a modern one, which means I may have to get a little creative in rendering it in Seal Script.  But, I think I can get a good idea by seeing how the component radicals (耳 and 阝) are rendered in Seal Script.


Father, bless.

My friend suggested 耶穌基督得勝, which I can verify from my limited knowledge of Chinese reads "Jesus Christ gets victory/is victorious" in traditional characters.

My friend also suggested the following characters might be appropriate, but cannot just be substituted in place of 勝, lest the phrase be rendered ungrammatical:

征服 -- to conquer, to vanquish, to prevail
獲勝 -- to be victorious, to triumph, to prevail

The hard part is choosing the right characters, I think. 勝 alone can have the commonplace meaning of "to win", like one would win a game of scrabble, for instance. I personally like 征服.

If you can't find a calligraphist or scholar of Chinese to help out with formulating the characters, getting the seal script for your chosen characters is the easy part. Any of those shops that produce those name stamps Asian people use to sign their names would be able to transcribe the chosen characters in the seal script.

Does any of this help? Are you trying to create a seal for the prosphora?

(posted from my iPhone)
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FatherGiryus
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« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2011, 01:28:03 AM »

I know this probably looks bad, but this is the best I could manage:



Father, bless.

My friend suggested 耶穌基督得勝, which I can verify from my limited knowledge of Chinese reads "Jesus Christ gets victory/is victorious" in traditional characters.

My friend also suggested the following characters might be appropriate, but cannot just be substituted in place of 勝, lest the phrase be rendered ungrammatical:

征服 -- to conquer, to vanquish, to prevail
獲勝 -- to be victorious, to triumph, to prevail

The hard part is choosing the right characters, I think. 勝 alone can have the commonplace meaning of "to win", like one would win a game of scrabble, for instance. I personally like 征服.

If you can't find a calligraphist or scholar of Chinese to help out with formulating the characters, getting the seal script for your chosen characters is the easy part. Any of those shops that produce those name stamps Asian people use to sign their names would be able to transcribe the chosen characters in the seal script.

Does any of this help? Are you trying to create a seal for the prosphora?

(posted from my iPhone)
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« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2011, 01:37:03 AM »

I think it looks great, though I personally stress-out whenver I see the seal script!

You won't mind if I show it to some more Chinese-speaking friends for verification? I would feel terrible if my initial advice was incorrect or only part-correct.
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« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2011, 10:16:11 AM »

Yes, that would be helpful.

I think it looks great, though I personally stress-out whenver I see the seal script!

You won't mind if I show it to some more Chinese-speaking friends for verification? I would feel terrible if my initial advice was incorrect or only part-correct.
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J.M.C
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« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2011, 06:58:57 PM »

Hello Father,

Before I say anything else I will say that the seal looks very good.
 
I would just like to add though that the initial translation given: "耶穌基督得勝" uses the word for conquer (sheng; 勝) that appears in Chinese translations of the Scripture and in Chinese translations of the Paschal Troparion.

Paschal Troparion:
基督已經從死裡復活,
他的死勝過死亡,
把生命賜給已埋葬在墓中的人

The bolded line literally reads: "His death has overcome death"

"I looked, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer." (Rev 6:2)

in the Chinese Union Translation is:

我 就 觀 看 、 見 有 一 匹 白 馬 、 騎 在 馬 上 的 拿 著 弓 . 並 有 冠 冕 賜 給 他 . 他 便 出 來 、 了 又 要

But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. (Romans 8:37)

is

然 而 靠 著 愛 我 們 的 主 、 在 這 一 切 的 事 上 、 已 經 得 有 餘 了


It proves nothing of course, except to say that 勝 can be used.

===

On the translation of "Jesus", there is really no such thing, only a transliteration, which is "ye su" using the characters given above. In an Icon of the Chinese Martyrs I've seen "Jesus Christ" rendered differently:

http://02varvara.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/01d-orthodox-china-new-martyrs-of-china-od-the-boxer-rebellion.jpg?w=1000&h=1100

(at the top, in the Mandorla)

... which looks like a transliteration of Jesus Christ in Russian (Иисус Христос - Iesus Hristos). It probably doesn't help you though as this form is even longer!

Would it be beyond the pale to have "基" in the top left and "督" in the top right of the seal? This would then mean it read "Christ Conquers" rather than "Jesus Christ Conquers".

After all that unnecessary confusion did I mention the seal looks great as it is? Smiley
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