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Author Topic: Orthodox College Programs  (Read 2906 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: April 22, 2011, 12:26:38 AM »

Does anyone happen to know of any American undergraduate programs in Eastern Christianity/Orthodox/etc.?
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« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2011, 12:31:07 AM »

Don't get a worthless degree.
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« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2011, 12:42:28 AM »

That's a good point, but I was thinking more of a dual degree or double major (with the other degree/major in either business or education...something that can lead to a job).
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« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2011, 12:42:36 AM »

Not that I know of (and I've tried to look). I'd like to say more, but the forum is going to go down soon, so it'll have to wait until Sunday Smiley
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« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2011, 07:11:52 PM »

Ahh, now we're back Smiley Ok, so theology degrees. I know of no undergraduate degrees in America (or the rest of the English-speaking world) that allows a concentration on Eastern Christianity. There are of course Orthodox seminaries with masters level stuff, and secular or semi-secular set ups with graduate level eastern Christian stuff (Graduate Theological Union, Oxford University, etc). To be a bit more tactful than a previous poster (  Tongue ), I'd say that it's going to be difficult to get much value out of theology degree, especially if you don't plan on pursuing theology at the graduate level. Even if you'd be thinking about it as being part of a double major, you'd probably get more professionally (if not personally) out of something else.  This is not to dissuade you from seeking a degree of that type (something I myself am doing at the moment), only saying that, as Alveus indicated (and knows from personal experience), it's good to know what you're getting yourself into, and maybe plan ahead so you know where you're going.
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« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2011, 03:03:38 AM »

That's really annoying about there apparently being no undergraduate degrees with a focus on the Eastern Church.  It would seem to me that, given how there are about 300 million Eastern Orthodox alone (plus a couple million Eastern Catholics and several tens of millions of Oriental Orthodox) that some college somewhere in the United States would have bothered to say "Hey, these people are kind of important, maybe we should get a program going."  But anyways...yeah I know it will probably not be of much use in my professional life (as I am not really considering graduate theological studies; the only way I would is if I decided to become a priest).  However, it is something that interests me greatly and I think I would get some personal enjoyment out of studying it along with something else, at the undergraduate level.

If anyone does happen to know of a program in the English speaking world (I believe Oxford might have one, but I would rather stick to schools that are indescribably difficult to get admitted to), I would really appreciate you chiming in.
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« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2011, 04:49:11 AM »

You could start with this (and get a menial job to support yourself) http://www.facebook.com/SaintTheodores?v=info
and move on to this http://www.mastersportal.eu/students/browse/programme/9614/orthodox-studies-mth.html#tab:requirements
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« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2011, 05:46:00 PM »

Though by no means an Orthodox institution, Redeemer University College in Ancaster, Ontario, has a surprisingly large offering of courses in the history and religion of Eastern Europe, especially for a relatively small school. A minor with that focus would likely be possible.
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« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2011, 05:58:35 PM »

Does anyone happen to know of any American undergraduate programs in Eastern Christianity/Orthodox/etc.?

Yes. Fordham University offers a minor in Orthodox Christian Studies. It's a good school in a great location, and you could major in any number of other fields.

http://www.fordham.edu/academics/programs_at_fordham_/orthodox_christian_s/
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« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2011, 06:15:10 PM »

Though by no means an Orthodox institution, Redeemer University College in Ancaster, Ontario, has a surprisingly large offering of courses in the history and religion of Eastern Europe, especially for a relatively small school. A minor with that focus would likely be possible.

Wow, I've never even heard of this school before.
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« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2011, 06:18:54 PM »

Does anyone happen to know of any American undergraduate programs in Eastern Christianity/Orthodox/etc.?

Yes. Fordham University offers a minor in Orthodox Christian Studies. It's a good school in a great location, and you could major in any number of other fields.

http://www.fordham.edu/academics/programs_at_fordham_/orthodox_christian_s/

 Huh Cheesy  I must be reading it wrong. Two classes adds up to a minor?
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« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2011, 06:30:22 PM »

Does anyone happen to know of any American undergraduate programs in Eastern Christianity/Orthodox/etc.?

Yes. Fordham University offers a minor in Orthodox Christian Studies. It's a good school in a great location, and you could major in any number of other fields.

http://www.fordham.edu/academics/programs_at_fordham_/orthodox_christian_s/

 Huh Cheesy  I must be reading it wrong. Two classes adds up to a minor?

Six classes:

Quote
The minor consists of two required courses (RS*U-2720 Byzantine Christianity and RS*V-4002 Orthodox Christian Ethics), which, in general, will be offered by the Theology Department every year.  The minor will also require four electives, subject to the following provisions:

        * 1 elective should come from Art History
        * 1 elective should come from History or Philosophy
        * students may take no more than 2 electives from any one discipline
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« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2011, 06:42:10 PM »

Thanks for the responses.

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« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2011, 07:07:46 PM »

Does anyone happen to know of any American undergraduate programs in Eastern Christianity/Orthodox/etc.?

Yes. Fordham University offers a minor in Orthodox Christian Studies. It's a good school in a great location, and you could major in any number of other fields.

http://www.fordham.edu/academics/programs_at_fordham_/orthodox_christian_s/

 Huh Cheesy  I must be reading it wrong. Two classes adds up to a minor?

Six classes:

Quote
The minor consists of two required courses (RS*U-2720 Byzantine Christianity and RS*V-4002 Orthodox Christian Ethics), which, in general, will be offered by the Theology Department every year.  The minor will also require four electives, subject to the following provisions:

        * 1 elective should come from Art History
        * 1 elective should come from History or Philosophy
        * students may take no more than 2 electives from any one discipline

Two classes.
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« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2011, 07:38:50 PM »

Sorry, let me clarify, there are two classes on Orthodoxy, the rest are electives (including electives that has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity, let alone Eastern Christianity). I can take two classes on Eastern Christianity at the local Catholic college here (Intro to Eastern Christianity and Orthodox Spirituality), but I would be thrown out on my ear if I tried to argue that I could make that into a minor by adding a class on art here and metaphysics there.
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« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2011, 08:21:11 PM »

Sorry, let me clarify, there are two classes on Orthodoxy, the rest are electives (including electives that has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity, let alone Eastern Christianity). I can take two classes on Eastern Christianity at the local Catholic college here (Intro to Eastern Christianity and Orthodox Spirituality), but I would be thrown out on my ear if I tried to argue that I could make that into a minor by adding a class on art here and metaphysics there.

George Demacopoulos & Aristotle Papanikolaou disagree and suggest you enroll in "CORU 3446: Early Modern Fiction 1860-1910."
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« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2011, 08:28:55 PM »

Sorry to burst your bubble police
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« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2011, 10:54:13 AM »

The minor at Fordham is intentionally interdisciplinary and flexible, just as many boutique majors and minors are in liberal arts settings. That is an advantage, not a defect (and is also very common at many good schools).

If I were an undergrad again and doing the minor, I would take Byzantine Christianity, Orthodox Christian Ethics, Law and Society in Greece and Rome, Cappadocian Theology, Pagans and Christians in the Roman Empire, and Byzantium and the West.

But others may have different relevant interests (e.g. Imperial Russia, Illuminated Manuscripts, Introduction to Plato, The Four Gospels, Early Christian Writings, Medieval Art, The Crusades, Ancient Cultures of the Bible, Philosophy of Religion, Women in Antiquity, Mid-East/Ottoman Empire, Medieval Political Ideologies, Martyrs, Monks and Madmen, or any number of other electives that may end up getting offered in the future, or even directed studies with specific faculty members), and they could pursue those interests with departmental oversight. That's the point.

Higher education is about developing the skills for self-directed research and creating a highly collaborative environment for peer learning (including faculty, grad students, and undergrads in conversation together).
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« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2011, 11:56:33 AM »

Don't get a worthless degree.

It ain't all about money.
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« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2011, 05:06:55 PM »

St Katherine's College (stkath.org), in San Diego, might be a place to check out.
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« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2011, 05:44:34 PM »

That's really annoying about there apparently being no undergraduate degrees with a focus on the Eastern Church.  It would seem to me that, given how there are about 300 million Eastern Orthodox alone (plus a couple million Eastern Catholics and several tens of millions of Oriental Orthodox) that some college somewhere in the United States would have bothered to say "Hey, these people are kind of important, maybe we should get a program going."  But anyways...yeah I know it will probably not be of much use in my professional life (as I am not really considering graduate theological studies; the only way I would is if I decided to become a priest).  However, it is something that interests me greatly and I think I would get some personal enjoyment out of studying it along with something else, at the undergraduate level.

If anyone does happen to know of a program in the English speaking world (I believe Oxford might have one, but I would rather stick to schools that are indescribably difficult to get admitted to), I would really appreciate you chiming in.

There is at least one that I can think of offhand (I went there!):  Hellenic College in Brookline, MA, where you can get a BA in Religious Studies (eastern orthodox):

www.hchc.edu

here is the link to the religious studies program: http://hellenic.hchc.edu/hellenic/academics/programs/religious_studies.html

There are 2 tracks to this program, A & B.  A is for seminarians (those seriously considering the priesthood) and B which is just for theologians, or those who want to study theology academically (many females enter this program as well, to learn more about their faith, or possibly go for a masters afterward and work in the church).  

So there you go.  
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« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2011, 09:05:56 PM »

I completely forgot about Holy Cross, I'm surprised no one mentioned it sooner.  Thank you
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« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2011, 11:36:44 AM »

St Katherine's College (stkath.org), in San Diego, might be a place to check out.

Thanks for the link. I did not know about this college. It just started up last year. It looks like a good place to learn about Orthodox theology and also get a career in the Biotech industry as indicated by the faculty:

Mark Bailey, MM (Yale), Music
Herbert J. Barrack, CPO (Shelby State), Biotechnology
Lisa Carmody, MS (SDSU), Biological Sciences
John Coroneus, PhD (UC Irvine), Chemistry and Biochemistry
Peter Fellios, PhD (Alliant), Psychology
John Frangos, PhD (Rice), Biotechnology
Constantine Glezakos, PhD (USC), Economics
Richard Harig (Humboldt State), Biological Sciences (Technical)
Kay Harkins, MFA (Bennington), English Language and Literature
Gary Hartenburg, PhD (UC Irvine), Philosophy
Xanthipe Jordanides, PhD (UC Berkeley), Chemistry and Biochemistry
Stephen Lewis (Purdue), Biological Sciences (Technical)
Paul Marangos, PhD (Rhode Island), Biological Sciences
Vladimir Morosan, DMA (Illinois), Music
Frank Papatheofanis, MD, PhD (Illinois, Johns Hopkins), Public Policy Studies
James Spencer, PhD (ABD)(Stanford), Mathematics
Eve (Paraskevè) Tibbs, PhD (Fuller), Theology

Thomas S. Buchanan, PhD (Northwestern), Biotechnology (Visiting)
Scott Cairns, PhD (Utah), English Language and Literature (Visiting)
Kristin De Troyer, PhD (Leiden), Theology (Visiting)
V. Rev. Thomas Hopko, PhD (Fordham), Theology (Visiting)
Kyriacos K.C. Nicolaou, PhD (London), Chemistry and Biochemistry (Visiting)

Maybe in a couple of year we can get them to join in on the "Creationism, Evolution, and Orthodoxy"  thread. I am sure it will still be going strong  Smiley.
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« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2011, 03:43:33 PM »

I want to apologize for being a jerk earlier in this thread Sad
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« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2011, 04:10:37 PM »

St Katherine's College (stkath.org), in San Diego, might be a place to check out.
No don't waste your time or money.  This school is not accredited.  See yhe earlier thread on the school.
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« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2011, 04:13:20 PM »

St Katherine's College (stkath.org), in San Diego, might be a place to check out.
No don't waste your time or money.  This school is not accredited.  See yhe earlier thread on the school.

The plan is that by the time you graduate it will be though.  This must be said, as it's not a complete lost cause.  You do however need to be invested in what you are doing there, and the school itself. 
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« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2011, 11:31:08 AM »

St Katherine's College (stkath.org), in San Diego, might be a place to check out.
No don't waste your time or money.  This school is not accredited.  See yhe earlier thread on the school.

I just read the earlier thread. These are my thoughts. If you are interested in theology and pursuing a career in the biotechnology, St. Katherine College looks like a good option to investigate. In the unlikely event that St. Katherine's does not receive WASC accreditation after four years, letters of recommendation for graduate school and/or a biotech/biopharma company is more important. In the case of the current faculty, three names stand out:

Paul J. Marangos, CEO of Encore Therapeutics Inc.
Bio: http://www.encoretherapeutics.com/MTeam.html

John A. Frangos, President & CEO/Scientific Director of the La Jolla Bioengineering Institute
Bio: http://www.ljbi.org/faculty/frangos/

K.C. Nicolaou, info below
Bio: http://www.scripps.edu/chem/nicolaou/
The interesting thing about K.C. Nicolaou is that he is an honorary Kentucky Colonel. This means he is just one step away from receiving the Nobel prize in chemistry, as you can see by his honors, prizes and awards:

K.C. Nicolaou was born on July 5, 1946, in Cyprus where he grew up and went to school until the age of 18.  In 1964, he went to England where he spent two years learning English and preparing to enter the University.  He studied chemistry at the University of London (B.Sc., 1969, Bedford College, First Class Honors; Ph.D. 1972, University College, with Professors F. Sondheimer and P.J. Garratt).  In 1972, he moved to the United States and after postdoctoral appointments at Columbia University (1972-1973, Professor T.J. Katz) and Harvard University (1973-1976, Professor E.J. Corey) he joined the faculty at the University of Pennsylvania, where he rose through the ranks to become the Rhodes-Thompson Professor of Chemistry.  In 1989, he accepted joint appointments at the University of California, San Diego, where he is Professor of Chemistry, and The Scripps Research Institute where he is the Chairman of the Department of Chemistry and holds the Skaggs Professorship of Chemical Biology and the Darlene Shiley Chair in Chemistry.


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« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2011, 01:19:08 PM »

You will not get a job if you have not been educated in accredited academic institution.  It is a waste of time and money.
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« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2011, 01:24:30 PM »

Though by no means an Orthodox institution, Redeemer University College in Ancaster, Ontario, has a surprisingly large offering of courses in the history and religion of Eastern Europe, especially for a relatively small school. A minor with that focus would likely be possible.

The trend nowadays in universities is towards more general interdisciplinary degrees.  For example, my degree is in History specializing in Russian and East European History.  But now I see most universities would offer a degree in history with a specialization in European History.  The difference being not limited to one country in Europe like German History as in the past or Russian History.  Then when you go onto Grad school you can write a thesis on a Russian History topic.
In religion you could specialize in Christianity at the undergraduate level and then zero in on Orthodoxy at the graduate level.

Oxford University is a good place to study Orthodox theology at the graduate level. Places like Yale or Princeton are good for Russian or Byzantine History.
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« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2011, 01:47:26 PM »

You will not get a job if you have not been educated in accredited academic institution.  It is a waste of time and money.

An American undergraduate college education these days is a waste of time and money (unless you major in business), regardless of accreditation.  Too expensive, you'll end up working your entire life just to pay off your college loans.  Even graduate work below the doctoral level isn't really worth it (you need a Master's these days just to teach in elementary school).

This assumes, of course, a value system that places a priority on getting a job after school.  If you think $60-80,000 is a fair price to pay to gain knowledge in an area you are passionate about and don't have the ability to self-educate then go for whatever school offers the knowledge you want and forget accreditation (if you do have the ability to self educate then save some of that money and just buy the textbooks).
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« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2011, 02:24:10 PM »

I disagree. When you go in for that pizza delivery job, that bachelors degree in philosophy might very well be what puts you over the top. What do you want: the prestigious job of delivering pizzas, or no job at all? That's what I thought.
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« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2011, 10:50:17 AM »

You will not get a job if you have not been educated in accredited academic institution.  It is a waste of time and money.

An American undergraduate college education these days is a waste of time and money (unless you major in business), regardless of accreditation.  Too expensive, you'll end up working your entire life just to pay off your college loans.  Even graduate work below the doctoral level isn't really worth it (you need a Master's these days just to teach in elementary school).

This assumes, of course, a value system that places a priority on getting a job after school.  If you think $60-80,000 is a fair price to pay to gain knowledge in an area you are passionate about and don't have the ability to self-educate then go for whatever school offers the knowledge you want and forget accreditation (if you do have the ability to self educate then save some of that money and just buy the textbooks).

I wonder if you can "gain knowledge" in an unaccredited university?
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« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2011, 12:49:50 PM »

You will not get a job if you have not been educated in accredited academic institution.  It is a waste of time and money.

An American undergraduate college education these days is a waste of time and money (unless you major in business), regardless of accreditation.  Too expensive, you'll end up working your entire life just to pay off your college loans.  Even graduate work below the doctoral level isn't really worth it (you need a Master's these days just to teach in elementary school).

This assumes, of course, a value system that places a priority on getting a job after school.  If you think $60-80,000 is a fair price to pay to gain knowledge in an area you are passionate about and don't have the ability to self-educate then go for whatever school offers the knowledge you want and forget accreditation (if you do have the ability to self educate then save some of that money and just buy the textbooks).

I wonder if you can "gain knowledge" in an unaccredited university?

If the unaccredited university has a faculty that actually knows what it's doing and top-notch textbooks then there's no reason why not.  It's not like accreditation by the state suddenly gifts teachers with the mystical ability to impart knowledge that is superior in form to all other types of knowledge to be imparted.  In some cases and in certain areas of teaching I'd even trust an unaccredited college over and above the accredited state equivalent.  Of course, there are "diploma mills" to be worried about, but these are fairly easy to root out, especially in the Internet age.

Just a quick note on any new Orthodox colleges that were to start up (and St Katherine's in particular): no college is going to just be birthed into existence with full accreditation.  There's a process toward accreditation that cannot begin until the college is in place, faculty is hired, and students are enrolled, as accreditation boards need these things to review the quality of education and ensure that it conforms to all state guidelines (most of which these days have to do more with ensuring the college doesn't discriminate based on race and ensuring that students use "gender neutral" writing styles in academic papers than any sort of educational standards).  This process takes about 4 years at it's fastest.
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« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2011, 03:19:14 PM »

I wonder if you can "gain knowledge" in an unaccredited university?

 Huh Why would you ask that?
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« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2011, 11:23:49 AM »

You will not get a job if you have not been educated in accredited academic institution.  It is a waste of time and money.

I would guess that somewhere between 30-50% (perhaps more in some fields) of the graduate students, postdoctoral students, academic researchers and professors, technology company researchers, etc., did not come from academic institutions that were accredited by one of the regional arms of the Council for Higher Education Accreditation. Think India, China, Taiwan, Japan, all of Europe, Malaysia, etc., and then look at the personnel of research-related institutions in the United States.
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Orest
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« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2011, 12:15:15 PM »

You will not get a job if you have not been educated in accredited academic institution.  It is a waste of time and money.

I would guess that somewhere between 30-50% (perhaps more in some fields) of the graduate students, postdoctoral students, academic researchers and professors, technology company researchers, etc., did not come from academic institutions that were accredited by one of the regional arms of the Council for Higher Education Accreditation. Think India, China, Taiwan, Japan, all of Europe, Malaysia, etc., and then look at the personnel of research-related institutions in the United States.
I disagree: that is way international scholars have to take make-up courses in North America or special courses to have their degrees accepted.
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