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Peter J
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« on: April 21, 2011, 08:41:38 AM »

See....that makes no sense to me, whatsoever.

Why label yourself Anglican, Lutheran, etc.....and go to a Catholic Church to receive Communion?

Why not go to an Anglican, if you are Anglican;  Lutheran if you are Lutheran, etc?

If you find something within your own denomination, that keeps you there....why go elsewhere?  Why the NEED to go elsewhere?  Why wouldn't they be happy with their own?

LizaSymonenko,

You ask a good question, one that I wonder about as well.

I've never been Anglican or Protestant, but here's a little something I found on the internet:

Quote
Those practicing open communion generally believe that the invitation to receive communion is an invitation to Christ's table, and that it is not the province of human beings to interfere between an individual and Christ. Some traditions maintain that there are certain circumstances under which individuals should not present themselves for (and should voluntarily refrain from receiving) communion. However, if those individuals were to present themselves for communion, they would not be denied. In other traditions, the concept of being "unfit to receive" is unknown, and the actual refusal to distribute the elements to an individual would be considered scandalous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_communion

That's all the answer I have for the moment. Perhaps an Anglican or Lutheran poster will give us their take on the matter.
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« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2011, 10:38:35 PM »

I recommend reading this:

Intercommunion: why Catholics need not 'apologise'
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« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2011, 01:33:22 PM »

Also, closed communion was the norm in all churches up to a century or so ago.

That means Presbyterians communed as Presbyterians, Methodists as Methodists, Baptists and Baptists, Catholics as Catholics, Anglicans as Anglicans, Lutheran as Lutherans, Orthodox as Orthodox, etc.

A Methodist could not commune at a Presbyterian church, for example. Nor could a Lutheran commune with the Anglicans, etc. One had to convert from one version of Protestantism to another (yes, that means a Presbyterian would have to "convert" to Lutheranism to commune with them, and vice versa, etc.). "Open communion" is a very new innovation.
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« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2011, 05:38:13 PM »

Also, closed communion was the norm in all churches up to a century or so ago.

That means Presbyterians communed as Presbyterians, Methodists as Methodists, Baptists and Baptists, Catholics as Catholics, Anglicans as Anglicans, Lutheran as Lutherans, Orthodox as Orthodox, etc.

A Methodist could not commune at a Presbyterian church, for example. Nor could a Lutheran commune with the Anglicans, etc. One had to convert from one version of Protestantism to another (yes, that means a Presbyterian would have to "convert" to Lutheranism to commune with them, and vice versa, etc.). "Open communion" is a very new innovation.

Do you have any sources discussing this? I just assumed that Protestants have always been more open about intercommunion.
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« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2011, 12:42:00 PM »

This is why I'm against ecumenism.  It's a complete heresy and against the Canon of the Holy Apostles.
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« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2011, 12:59:11 PM »

Do you have any sources discussing this? I just assumed that Protestants have always been more open about intercommunion.

It can be somewhat difficult to dig up the information. Closed Communion quickly dissolved in Protestantism, following close behind the loss of the concept of the Church. But here are some sources I found during a quick internet search:

What is “Closed Communion” and Why Do Some Lutherans Practice It? - A recent (2009) article about closed communion amongst Lutherans. Some conservative Lutherans still maintain closed communion, such as the Luthern Church - Missouri Synod. They will commune only other LCMS members, even excluding other Lutherans.

A Case For Closed Communion - A Baptist pamphlet from the 1880s defending closed communion, mostly against the "paedobaptist" churches. It states that Christians must be baptized, by full immersion, prior to participating in the "Lord's Supper."
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« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2011, 02:26:12 PM »


This is just too "fresh" in my mind.

All throughout Great Lent we had Divine Liturgy Saturday mornings.  Saturday morning, our school holds classes - Ukrainian language, reading, writing, and Orthodox religion.  Since I am the one who teaches religion, I would take each one of my classes, in turn, to the church where the kids would light a candle and say a prayer before returning to class.

My little kids class, just happened to walk in just in time for Communion.  I know which kids are baptized Orthodox, and which aren't.  There were a couple I didn't know what they were, so, I put them off to the side with the non-Orthodox children.  The little 6 year old Orthodox kids got to go up for Holy Communion.  This was before lunch, so, they hadn't eaten - in case anyone was wondering....and we did say our prayers.

Back in class, the girl that I wasn't sure of expressed that she had wanted to come up.  I asked if she knew whether she were Orthodox or Catholic  (we have a few atheists...but, I know her family isn't one of them.)  She said her mom is Orthodox, dad Catholic, but, she didn't know what she was.  I told her to ask her mom and if mom says it's okay...then okay. 

Next day was Palm Sunday, and all the school kids were present to sing the Lord's Prayer.  I see this little girl get in line for Communion.  I look at her and she assures me mom said it was okay.  Fine.

Later at the kitchen window I bump in to her mom, and apologize for keeping her from Communion on Saturday.  Mom replies "...it's okay with me that she went today."  The way she said it...just made me worry, so I pressed the subject.  I asked if the little girl were baptized Orthodox....Mom replies..."My parents were Catholic, yet, they go to an Orthodox Church...We go here and there...and it doesn't really matter...both churches are Ukrainian."  Och!  I told her it does matter.  She tells me that her church allows Orthodox to commune....and I replied that I know that, but, the Orthodox Church does not allow Catholics to commune....to which (ignoring the fact that my little nieces were standing with me) she rips in to me...and yells that her daughter isn't going to Hell, etc.  I assured her that I never thought she was, nor did I say that....however, rules are rules and Communion is a privilege, not a right....and it is Orthodox, not Ukrainian....and as I saw her fuming, I took the hands of my nieces and quietly walked away.  I didn't need to argue on Palm Sunday...or any other day.

This is what leads me to ask...if you are Catholic...and there's some dogma, theology, etc....that keeps you Catholic....why would you come to Communion in an Orthodox Church?  If you want to Commune in an Orthodox Church, then there must be something that draws you, and if so, you should convert to Orthodoxy.

Why is it that people feel it is okay to play both sides.  Once here, once there, etc.  Don't they realize there are differences?

I know that our priest has had a difficult time due to the mixed marriages, and parents wanting 2 Catholic godparents for their baby, but, want them baptized Orthodox in an Orthodox Church?  Huh? 

For first Confession, I had a grandmother come up to me, and tell me she wished her grandkids to go to Holy First Confession on Palm Sunday with the other 5 kids we had.  I told her their were 3 classes scheduled, etc.  She answered..'"Oh, you can skip all the classes.  They know it all, because they've already had their First Communion over "there"".  Again, huh?  They've had a Catholic First Communion,....and now they should come here and have an Orthodox First Confession?

It must be hard to be a priest, and, God bless my priest for not allowing these things to happen.  He very politely handles each situation, while I get flustered and red...and stumble over my words..."huh?  You want to do what?!?"   Wink
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« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2011, 02:31:49 PM »


This is what leads me to ask...if you are Catholic...and there's some dogma, theology, etc....that keeps you Catholic....why would you come to Communion in an Orthodox Church?  If you want to Commune in an Orthodox Church, then there must be something that draws you, and if so, you should convert to Orthodoxy.

I feel no need to commune in an Eastern Orthodox Parish at all, as Christ is quite present in the Eucharist at my Catholic Parish. That being said, the division is a scandal.
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« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2011, 02:39:38 PM »


So, this begs the question....do some of these individuals who hop around...not know their own Faith?  Do, they simply go through the steps of the Sacraments as a custom or tradition, versus realizing the magnitude of each one?

Is baptizing a child, just a pretty ceremony and a chance to party?  Is First Confession (or Communion) an opportunity to dress my child like a princess, so let's do it?

With all due respect to the Catholics out there....I would never consider taking Communion, going to baptism, or getting married in a Catholic church, when I have everything I need in my Orthodox church.

Is it a matter of educating our parishioners?  Do we need to evangelize those who are already attending our churches?  I think maybe the answer is yes.
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« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2011, 02:41:50 PM »


So, this begs the question....do some of these individuals who hop around...not know their own Faith?  Do, they simply go through the steps of the Sacraments as a custom or tradition, versus realizing the magnitude of each one?

Is baptizing a child, just a pretty ceremony and a chance to party?  Is First Confession (or Communion) an opportunity to dress my child like a princess, so let's do it?

With all due respect to the Catholics out there....I would never consider taking Communion, going to baptism, or getting married in a Catholic church, when I have everything I need in my Orthodox church.Is it a matter of educating our parishioners?  Do we need to evangelize those who are already attending our churches?  I think maybe the answer is yes.

My sentiments exactly, though, I would switch the words Orthodox and Catholic. That beings said, I hope that we all one day are able to receive communion along side one another, as fellow, "Orthodox" or "Catholics" or whatever we call ourselves... lol
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« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2011, 02:54:02 PM »

I asked if the little girl were baptized Orthodox....Mom replies..."My parents were Catholic, yet, they go to an Orthodox Church...We go here and there...and it doesn't really matter...both churches are Ukrainian."

I think that your situation with the Ukrainians is pretty unique, however, in that the rites and customs are almost identical, so for most people they really might think they are the same. If you were talking about them hopping between a Latin rite Roman Catholic Church and a Constantinopolitan Rite Ukrainian Orthodox Church then I can see how the differences might be more stark and obvious. But then again you would know better than I how aware Ukrainians are of the differences in general.
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« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2011, 03:12:16 PM »


You are most definitely correct.  Ukraine is a unique situation in many, many aspects!  There is no other nation who deals with so many religious issues.

However, with all the similarities between the two Churches, there are some differences....and people have decided to be either one or the other.  Therefore, they should stick to the one they chose.

It bothers me that each Sunday they go to the "other" church...and when there's some major holiday or something "going on" in our church, they come to us, and expect to receive the Sacraments, etc.

The Churches are similar, but, they are different.

Men and women are similar, but, boy are they different.

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« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2011, 09:46:18 PM »


This is what leads me to ask...if you are Catholic...and there's some dogma, theology, etc....that keeps you Catholic....why would you come to Communion in an Orthodox Church?  If you want to Commune in an Orthodox Church, then there must be something that draws you, and if so, you should convert to Orthodoxy.

I feel no need to commune in an Eastern Orthodox Parish at all, as Christ is quite present in the Eucharist at my Catholic Parish. That being said, the division is a scandal.

I quite agree.

Plus, I don't recall ever being in a situation in which Catholic canon law would permit to receive communion from any non-Catholic minister ...

Quote
It then addresses the question of Catholics receiving the sacraments from non-Catholics. It sets the following strict conditions:

    a. necessity or genuine spiritual advantage
    b. when the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided
    c. it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister
    d. a church which has valid sacraments

http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/intercommunion.htm
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« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2011, 09:54:33 PM »

She tells me that her church allows Orthodox to commune....and I replied that I know that, but, the Orthodox Church does not allow Catholics to commune....to which (ignoring the fact that my little nieces were standing with me) she rips in to me...and yells that her daughter isn't going to Hell, etc.  I assured her that I never thought she was, nor did I say that....however, rules are rules and Communion is a privilege, not a right....and it is Orthodox, not Ukrainian....and as I saw her fuming, I took the hands of my nieces and quietly walked away.  I didn't need to argue on Palm Sunday...or any other day.

Granted I wasn't there, but from what you said it sounds like the woman was a bit of a nut.

I recall, many years ago, a roommate of mine, who was Episcopalian, asking me why it was that he couldn't receive communion in a Catholic church, even though Episcopalians would allow Catholics to receive. It was pretty clear that he was unhappy about it, but he was at least civil (unlike the woman you encountered) in the way he asked the question.
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« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2011, 10:09:30 AM »


....do some of these individuals who hop around...not know their own Faith?  Do, they simply go through the steps of the Sacraments as a custom or tradition, versus realizing the magnitude of each one?

Is baptizing a child, just a pretty ceremony and a chance to party?  Is First Confession (or Communion) an opportunity to dress my child like a princess, so let's do it?

Is it a matter of educating our parishioners?  Do we need to evangelize those who are already attending our churches?  I think maybe the answer is yes.


Yes to all of the above, plus the tendency that some folks have to confuse religion and culture. Being Orthodox shouldn't necessarily mean that one has to be Serbian or Greek or Ukrainian or Russian or Romanian but people often act like it does.
It seems to be a fairly common immigrant experience - and has been the norm for different groups throughout American history. Homesick immigrants band together and establish a church, to experience and perpetuate their faith, language and culture. So their faith, language and culture seem the same, but as their children and grandchildren assimilate, it becomes less important. The process apparently holds true for almost all immigrant groups.
Then baptism, marriage etc. are less religious than cultural events. (In my former church, a grandmother (visiting from a Scandinavian country) insisted that the child be baptized. After the baptism which was at the beginning of the service,  the entire party got up and left, in the middle of the first hymn.)

(My husband was Irish Catholic - emphasis on the Irish, you know  Wink, whose mother wouldn't let him play with Protestants!
My heritage is German Lutheran, and my former church was originally known as "the German Lutheran Congregation" when it was established. Up until WWII, they conducted services, catechism and even church council meetings in German.)

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« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2011, 11:03:44 PM »

Those advocating for open or at least a more lax approach to communion misunderstand what it is.  It is not merely a "feel good" sacrament.  Nor is it solely the reception of Him in His Body and His Blood.  It is also a declaration of unity.  When you commune the Holy Mysteries of the altar you are declaring your union with the whole of the Orthodox Catholic Church via your bishop.  You are celebrating and receiving the Most Holy Awesome and Dread Mysteries of Christ in union with every priest, deacon, monk and lay Orthodox Christian all the world over who are themselves under a bishop in communion with yours.  When we approach the chalice we are making a profession of faith, no less than when we chant the Creed.  And it is the Orthodox Christian Faith we are confessing.

As someone once observed... "you are who you are in communion with."  And that is why we cannot admit those who are not Orthodox to the chalice nor partake of heterodox sacraments.
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« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2011, 11:31:37 PM »


You are most definitely correct.  Ukraine is a unique situation in many, many aspects!  There is no other nation who deals with so many religious issues.

However, with all the similarities between the two Churches, there are some differences....and people have decided to be either one or the other.  Therefore, they should stick to the one they chose.

It bothers me that each Sunday they go to the "other" church...and when there's some major holiday or something "going on" in our church, they come to us, and expect to receive the Sacraments, etc.

The Churches are similar, but, they are different.

Men and women are similar, but, boy are they different.



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"What does that mean?"

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(in the interest of full disclosure, though a movie dialogue, it was between adulterers in real life.  A better line-"Lawyers should never marry other lawyers. This is called inbreeding, from which comes idiot children and more lawyers."  is there a difference?)
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« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2011, 11:50:16 PM »

The Spirit is descended!

This is just too "fresh" in my mind.

All throughout Great Lent we had Divine Liturgy Saturday mornings.  Saturday morning, our school holds classes - Ukrainian language, reading, writing, and Orthodox religion.  Since I am the one who teaches religion, I would take each one of my classes, in turn, to the church where the kids would light a candle and say a prayer before returning to class.

My little kids class, just happened to walk in just in time for Communion.  I know which kids are baptized Orthodox, and which aren't.  There were a couple I didn't know what they were, so, I put them off to the side with the non-Orthodox children.  The little 6 year old Orthodox kids got to go up for Holy Communion.  This was before lunch, so, they hadn't eaten - in case anyone was wondering....and we did say our prayers.

Back in class, the girl that I wasn't sure of expressed that she had wanted to come up.  I asked if she knew whether she were Orthodox or Catholic  (we have a few atheists...but, I know her family isn't one of them.)  She said her mom is Orthodox, dad Catholic, but, she didn't know what she was.  I told her to ask her mom and if mom says it's okay...then okay. 

Next day was Palm Sunday, and all the school kids were present to sing the Lord's Prayer.  I see this little girl get in line for Communion.  I look at her and she assures me mom said it was okay.  Fine.

Later at the kitchen window I bump in to her mom, and apologize for keeping her from Communion on Saturday.  Mom replies "...it's okay with me that she went today."  The way she said it...just made me worry, so I pressed the subject.  I asked if the little girl were baptized Orthodox....Mom replies..."My parents were Catholic, yet, they go to an Orthodox Church...We go here and there...and it doesn't really matter...both churches are Ukrainian."  Och!  I told her it does matter.  She tells me that her church allows Orthodox to commune....and I replied that I know that, but, the Orthodox Church does not allow Catholics to commune....to which (ignoring the fact that my little nieces were standing with me) she rips in to me...and yells that her daughter isn't going to Hell, etc.  I assured her that I never thought she was, nor did I say that....however, rules are rules and Communion is a privilege, not a right....and it is Orthodox, not Ukrainian....and as I saw her fuming, I took the hands of my nieces and quietly walked away.  I didn't need to argue on Palm Sunday...or any other day.

This is what leads me to ask...if you are Catholic...and there's some dogma, theology, etc....that keeps you Catholic....why would you come to Communion in an Orthodox Church?  If you want to Commune in an Orthodox Church, then there must be something that draws you, and if so, you should convert to Orthodoxy.

Why is it that people feel it is okay to play both sides.  Once here, once there, etc.  Don't they realize there are differences?

I know that our priest has had a difficult time due to the mixed marriages, and parents wanting 2 Catholic godparents for their baby, but, want them baptized Orthodox in an Orthodox Church?  Huh? 

For first Confession, I had a grandmother come up to me, and tell me she wished her grandkids to go to Holy First Confession on Palm Sunday with the other 5 kids we had.  I told her their were 3 classes scheduled, etc.  She answered..'"Oh, you can skip all the classes.  They know it all, because they've already had their First Communion over "there"".  Again, huh?  They've had a Catholic First Communion,....and now they should come here and have an Orthodox First Confession?

It must be hard to be a priest, and, God bless my priest for not allowing these things to happen.  He very politely handles each situation, while I get flustered and red...and stumble over my words..."huh?  You want to do what?!?"   Wink

Good for you (and your priest)!

I'm not crazy about our maghluub (it means "conquered") Melkites coming back and forth with the Antiochian Orthodox in Syria, but the general sense is that everyone is Antiochian and the Melkite rank and file don't believe the strange Vatican doctrines.  My experience with the Ukrainians, however, doesn't give me the same picture.  They are very insistent that they have always been in communion with the Vatican, and in my experience, barely recognize the Ukrainian Orthodox exist-some poor residue of Russian occupation.  I get the feeling that the only reason they commune at a Ukrainian Orthodox Church (where, of course, they wouldn't think of doing so in a Russian, or even Greek, Church) is because Vatican II has extended a patronizing minimal legitimizing of the Ukrainian Orthodox-you're OK because Rome says so.  Somehow I also get the idea that they wouldn't commune in a Ukrainian Orthodox Church in East Ukraine.
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« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2011, 12:11:41 AM »

The Spirit is descended!
See....that makes no sense to me, whatsoever.

Why label yourself Anglican, Lutheran, etc.....and go to a Catholic Church to receive Communion?

Why not go to an Anglican, if you are Anglican;  Lutheran if you are Lutheran, etc?

If you find something within your own denomination, that keeps you there....why go elsewhere?  Why the NEED to go elsewhere?  Why wouldn't they be happy with their own?

LizaSymonenko,

You ask a good question, one that I wonder about as well.

I've never been Anglican or Protestant, but here's a little something I found on the internet:

Quote
Those practicing open communion generally believe that the invitation to receive communion is an invitation to Christ's table, and that it is not the province of human beings to interfere between an individual and Christ. Some traditions maintain that there are certain circumstances under which individuals should not present themselves for (and should voluntarily refrain from receiving) communion. However, if those individuals were to present themselves for communion, they would not be denied. In other traditions, the concept of being "unfit to receive" is unknown, and the actual refusal to distribute the elements to an individual would be considered scandalous.
That is what you call getting something bass akwards.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_communion

That's all the answer I have for the moment. Perhaps an Anglican or Lutheran poster will give us their take on the matter.
When I was Lutheran I took communion often at the Vatican churches-my school was run by the Resurrectionists and I often went to mass with friends (my mother was scandalized).  I was scandalized, however, at the very thought of the American Lutheran Church (or any Lutheran body) having intercommunion with the Episcopalians, who don't explicitly confess the real presence (something the Vatican does), and when I thought that a nonconfirmed Lutheran went to take communion at a Vatican Church (I actually asked, and found out he was confirmed Lutheran, at which I was OK with it)  Can't rightly explain why I did. Nor can I explain how, the one time I went to an Orthodox DL, I didn't even take the qurban/antidoran because I thought it was communion.  The moment, years later, when I first started to think about becoming Orthodoxy, I stopped taking communion, Lutheran or the Vatican's.
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« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2011, 12:34:49 AM »

The Spirit is descended!
Also, closed communion was the norm in all churches up to a century or so ago.

That means Presbyterians communed as Presbyterians, Methodists as Methodists, Baptists and Baptists, Catholics as Catholics, Anglicans as Anglicans, Lutheran as Lutherans, Orthodox as Orthodox, etc.

A Methodist could not commune at a Presbyterian church, for example. Nor could a Lutheran commune with the Anglicans, etc. One had to convert from one version of Protestantism to another (yes, that means a Presbyterian would have to "convert" to Lutheranism to commune with them, and vice versa, etc.). "Open communion" is a very new innovation.
The Wisconsin Synod still practises what my old Lutheran Pastor preached:
Quote
The Wisconsin Synod terminated fellowship with the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod in 1961 because of differences in the doctrine and practice of church fellowship. Over the years the Missouri Synod had departed from the doctrine and practice of fellowship long held by the members of the Synodical Conference in which the Wisconsin Synod and the Missouri Synod shared confessional fellowship. The Wisconsin Synod teaches that agreement on all the teachings of Scripture is necessary for all forms of fellowship. The Missouri Synod teaches that full agreement is necessary only for altar and pulpit fellowship. Wisconsin teaches that the same scriptural principles apply to all forms of church or religious fellowship. All joint prayer is an expression of fellowship. Missouri teaches that there can be joint prayer that is not an act of fellowship. In practice Missouri also indicates that full agreement is not necessary for worship at occasional joint Christian celebrations, Reformation services, convocations, rallies. Some Missouri pastors allow "ecumenical wedding services" at which pastors or priests outside their fellowship may participate.

Wisconsin practices "close" or "closed" Communion, inviting to our altars only those who are members of congregations in our fellowship. Although Missouri officially teaches "close(d)" Communion, many pastors and churches practice "open" Communion, allowing joint Communion with those not in doctrinal agreement with the Missouri Synod....Because the two synods are no longer in fellowship memberships are not transferred from a congregation in one synod to a congregation in another. Normally a person would ask for a release from membership from his previous congregation and then apply for membership in a congregation in the other synod.

Because the two synods are no longer in fellowship Wisconsin Synod congregations do not commune members of LCMS congregations. Many LCMS congregations practice a form of open Communion and will admit to the Lord's Supper members of congregations that are not in their fellowship. Those who practice close or closed Communion within the LCMS would probably not commune a WELS member nor should a WELS member commune in a Missouri Synod congregation.
http://www.livingbold.net/welsspace/reallife/spiritual/lutherandifference
http://archive.wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?1712&cxDatabase_databaseID=1&id=5295&magazine=Forward%20in%20Christ
Do you have any sources discussing this? I just assumed that Protestants have always been more open about intercommunion.
my old "Senior Catechism" of Dr. J. A. Dell was written in 1939 (I had an edition which came out in the 60's or 70's) which teaches closed communion from a Lutheran perspective.  It doesn't approve of communion with followers of the Vatican, Calvinists, Baptists, Anglicans, basically any non-Lutheran.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 12:35:35 AM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2011, 09:40:32 AM »


I wonder if anyone's ever written an article "Intercommunion: why Orthodox need not 'apologise'".
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« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2011, 12:23:35 PM »


I wonder if anyone's ever written an article "Intercommunion: why Orthodox need not 'apologise'".

 Extracted from :: http://orthodoxbookreview.blogspot.com/2010/05/communion-and-intercommunion.html

Communion and Intercommunion
By Kallistos Ware

"Why can't we all just have communion together and get over our petty differences?" Such is the heartfelt wish of so many Christians who long to have an expression of unity with fellow believers. But unity in what belief is the critical question. Bishop Kallistos Ware provides an excellent tool for those interested in this key question, or active in the ecumenical movement. Drawing upon Scripture, Patristics, Liturgy and modern orthodox theologians, Ware outlines the Eastern Orthodox position on the question of intercommunion and communion. While he does not support intercommunion (of the interdenominational sort), he compassionately and clearly explains why such a stance is grounded in the unbroken tradition of the Church. Basic to this premise is that communion is a sign of a preexisting communion of faith and order, a joyful proclamation of unity in belief and practice. In this sense, intercommunion is a bit illogical and untruthful since the parties involved do not always hold a common faith, thus negating the very act of communion. An unfortunate result of such practices is the rationalizing away of any so-called "minor" differences between the parties, leading to a "least common denominator" approach to the faith which is so typical in our times. The end result is an anemic Christology and Ecclesiology, leading many to ask, "What exactly does such a Eucharist represent other than warm feelings?" (Although Ware himself is not a bit polemic in his presentation.)

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« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2011, 08:18:55 PM »

A better line-"Lawyers should never marry other lawyers. This is called inbreeding, from which comes idiot children and more lawyers."  is there a difference?)

And law princesses whose parents are both judges who just can't wait to drop that information into the first five minutes of conversation with a total stranger.
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« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2011, 12:23:30 AM »

She tells me that her church allows Orthodox to commune....and I replied that I know that, but, the Orthodox Church does not allow Catholics to commune....to which (ignoring the fact that my little nieces were standing with me) she rips in to me...and yells that her daughter isn't going to Hell, etc.  I assured her that I never thought she was, nor did I say that....however, rules are rules and Communion is a privilege, not a right....and it is Orthodox, not Ukrainian....and as I saw her fuming, I took the hands of my nieces and quietly walked away.  I didn't need to argue on Palm Sunday...or any other day.

Granted I wasn't there, but from what you said it sounds like the woman was a bit of a nut.

I recall, many years ago, a roommate of mine, who was Episcopalian, asking me why it was that he couldn't receive communion in a Catholic church, even though Episcopalians would allow Catholics to receive. It was pretty clear that he was unhappy about it, but he was at least civil (unlike the woman you encountered) in the way he asked the question.


I've had people get very upset with me when I tell them we practice closed communion. It's almost like they have been personally slighted.
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