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Author Topic: Was David Kouresh Orthodox?  (Read 829 times) Average Rating: 0
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Robb
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« on: April 19, 2011, 08:39:23 PM »

Since this is the anniversary of the horrid 1993 Waco cult fire, I am curious, Was David Kouresh (Whom I think had Arabic blood in him) Formely an Orthodox Christian before starting his cult?
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« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2011, 09:02:02 PM »

You mean David Koresh? I have never heard anything like that. He was born to Bonnie Sue Clark and Bobby Howell, which don't strike me as Arabic or Arabic-derived names (there was of course the famous Lebanese singer Sammy Clark, but he was born Sami Hobeika and adopted a stage name for the international market). He was a "Branch Davidian", which was some sort of schismatic group originating from within the Seventh Day Adventist (Protestant) group. He had joined the SDAs after some time as a Southern Baptist earlier in his life.
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yeshuaisiam
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« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2011, 04:29:15 PM »

He was a "Branch Dividian" much like a 7th Day Adventist.

There were a very nice group of people.  I've personally have met people from that group that knew him personally.  Mt. Calm is about 1 hour from my home.  My opinion, they were murdered, even the children & acted in self defense from the govt.

I really with they practiced non-resistance.

The govt called a ceasefire because they were getting their rear ends kicked at the compound at first.  Then they moved in later with tanks and murdered them.  A good documentary is "Waco rules of engagement".   It's on google video.
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« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2011, 08:55:55 PM »

He was a "Branch Dividian" much like a 7th Day Adventist.

There were a very nice group of people.  I've personally have met people from that group that knew him personally.  Mt. Calm is about 1 hour from my home.  My opinion, they were murdered, even the children & acted in self defense from the govt.

I really with they practiced non-resistance.

The govt called a ceasefire because they were getting their rear ends kicked at the compound at first.  Then they moved in later with tanks and murdered them.  A good documentary is "Waco rules of engagement".   It's on google video.

The government was getting its read kicked so they called a ceasefire, but the Branch Dividians practiced non-resistance? That doesn't seem to mesh.

Don't get me wrong, I've heard before that the government was overzealous, but what you wrote doesn't make much sense.
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Robb
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« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2011, 12:17:12 AM »

I'm sorry, but I have a hard time showing sympathy for a man who was somehow able to delude his followers into believing that he was a messianic figure and then forced them to live in an isolated compound where reported sexual abuse of minors took place.  If these cultist were actually innocent of any wrongdoing then they should have turned themselves over to the authorities first thing and let the due process of law take its course.  Instead they pulled an O.J. Simpson and tried to duck the authorities and they unfortunate paid the consequence for their disobedience to the law and those responsible for upholding it.  

Cults are a very dangerous thing and it is the duty of the lawful civil authority to protect us from their noxious sting.  If you look at most sensible countries like Russia and Europe, they have clear cut laws which define what is and isn't a recognized religious body.  Most of the two bit "churches" and sects that we have proliferating in the US would never see the light of day in most other civilized western nations, yet here they are thriving and causing harm upon those foolish or misguided enough to fall into their trap in the good old USA.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2011, 12:18:29 AM by Robb » Logged

Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
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« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2011, 02:17:47 AM »

I'm sorry, but I have a hard time showing sympathy for a man who was somehow able to delude his followers into believing that he was a messianic figure and then forced them to live in an isolated compound where reported sexual abuse of minors took place.  If these cultist were actually innocent of any wrongdoing then they should have turned themselves over to the authorities first thing and let the due process of law take its course.  Instead they pulled an O.J. Simpson and tried to duck the authorities and they unfortunate paid the consequence for their disobedience to the law and those responsible for upholding it.  

Cults are a very dangerous thing and it is the duty of the lawful civil authority to protect us from their noxious sting.  If you look at most sensible countries like Russia and Europe, they have clear cut laws which define what is and isn't a recognized religious body.  Most of the two bit "churches" and sects that we have proliferating in the US would never see the light of day in most other civilized western nations, yet here they are thriving and causing harm upon those foolish or misguided enough to fall into their trap in the good old USA.

I'm certainly no expert and can't cite a specific source, but I remember reading/watching a number of sources that claimed that Koresh and his followers were not isolated, but were often seen in town.  I'm not saying they weren't a cult or anything like that, but I don't believe they were forced into isolation.
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Robert W
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« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2011, 02:46:09 AM »

What about showing sympathy for the children then?

Allegedly sexually abused by the cult.
Certainly killed by government agents.
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yeshuaisiam
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« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2011, 08:38:30 PM »

He was a "Branch Dividian" much like a 7th Day Adventist.

There were a very nice group of people.  I've personally have met people from that group that knew him personally.  Mt. Calm is about 1 hour from my home.  My opinion, they were murdered, even the children & acted in self defense from the govt.

I really with they practiced non-resistance.

The govt called a ceasefire because they were getting their rear ends kicked at the compound at first.  Then they moved in later with tanks and murdered them.  A good documentary is "Waco rules of engagement".   It's on google video.

The government was getting its read kicked so they called a ceasefire, but the Branch Dividians practiced non-resistance? That doesn't seem to mesh.

Don't get me wrong, I've heard before that the government was overzealous, but what you wrote doesn't make much sense.

Branch Dividians were not non-resistant.  They had MANY guns and were prepared to defend.
Dunno where you got that they were non-resistant.
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yeshuaisiam
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« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2011, 08:42:29 PM »

I'm sorry, but I have a hard time showing sympathy for a man who was somehow able to delude his followers into believing that he was a messianic figure and then forced them to live in an isolated compound where reported sexual abuse of minors took place.  If these cultist were actually innocent of any wrongdoing then they should have turned themselves over to the authorities first thing and let the due process of law take its course.  Instead they pulled an O.J. Simpson and tried to duck the authorities and they unfortunate paid the consequence for their disobedience to the law and those responsible for upholding it.  

Cults are a very dangerous thing and it is the duty of the lawful civil authority to protect us from their noxious sting.  If you look at most sensible countries like Russia and Europe, they have clear cut laws which define what is and isn't a recognized religious body.  Most of the two bit "churches" and sects that we have proliferating in the US would never see the light of day in most other civilized western nations, yet here they are thriving and causing harm upon those foolish or misguided enough to fall into their trap in the good old USA.

He didn't.  They believed more or less that Nahum was speaking though him.  They were very open and friendly to the general public around them.  The county Sheriff knew them well and saw Koresh many times in town (2 days before in fact).

When the feds arrived they were "tipped off" how armed the Dividians were.  Koresh came out the front door to greet them completely unarmed and they began firing.  Bullets rattled his front door and hit people in the hallway behind him.  He retreated wounded and the Dividians fought back.

To this date the Dividians who escaped this murderous event were all found not guilty.  No charges stand.  If you watch the video I quoted in the link above, its an entire different perspective.  It's a terrible thing.

They were victims.  Charges were "alleged" and that doesn't deserve shooting at people coming out their door.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2011, 08:45:02 PM by yeshuaisiam » Logged

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